Forum - View topicThis Week in Games - If 'JRPG' is a Dirty Word, It's America's Fault
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Slips Python
Posts: 40 |
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To be fair how many have had them since then? You could probably count them on one hand. And I mean actual black characters, not tanned skinned characters you see people try to claim as black because people are hungry for representation. The uncomfortable truth is unless you get a creator who specifically wants to have a black character in their work, it's going to be very rare in Japan. It's just not a popular or marketable thing in Asian markets . Which, yeah, is probably jarring for Americans where you see franchises race-swap established characters to black all the time even if it makes no sense and people dismiss the naysayers as bigots, but Japan isn't America and people expecting it to be like America are always going to be disappointed. Yelling at them isn't going to change anything, if anything they'll just double down like we saw with YoshiP who always seems to get more annoyed every time people try to argue with him about the subject since he's been dealing with those complaints for years now from western outlets. No Game, No Life's Yuu Kamiya also recently shared an angry DM he got from a western fan on Twitter about why there's no black characters in his work and he basically dismissed it as weird and annoying. I have to wonder if pestering Japanese creators about it are just going to hurt their chances of seeing black characters in media even more since Japanese creators tend to not like being told what to do and will do things out of spite, at least the most popular and influential ones. |
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liatris
Posts: 59 |
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Yoshida's statement that the term JRPG is a very derogatory term can be understood by most Japanese gamers of a certain age. At that time, there was a fierce controversy over this word in Japan. I remember it being associated with nationalism and being incredibly controversial. Even among Japanese people, some people used these American articles to criticize Japanese games. Some people cursed foreign games as a backlash. The tone that Japanese games are childish, inferior and perverted games has swept the internet, making the gaming community one of the most unapproachable groups on the internet.
The impact extends to the developers, and Capcom's Inafune will abandon Japanese games in favor of Western-style games they don't even know much about. It ended up being a big failure, but anyway, this American journalism's disregard for Japanese games was so intense that it changed the tide of Japanese games, and in some cases, the entire global game industry. As an aside, this is one of the reasons why aggregation sites have gained momentum in Japan. Hachima, Jin, etc... As a result, Nintendo's Iwata launches Nintendo Direct to prevent hoaxes. |
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omegafinal
Posts: 125 |
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I've let this thought simmer a bit, because this is a part about jRPGs, as a term, I didn't know about. Like I think the term is valid, because the games that we know of, like Final Fantasy of old, Dragon Quest, Breath of Fire, The Tales Series, they all have a distinct feeling and such. Basically playing a linear story, where we follow the adventures of a defined character. From a consumer side, I think most of us took it as a good thing. But the journalists, and certain game creators, like Fish and Blow, my god, I cannot believe you folks ruined it.
I also came back from watch James Stephanie Sterling's video on the subject, and man, what were some of those examples?! Like Fish laughing and directly insulting someone "Your games sucks!" to their face, that is one I completely forgot. (Though look at him now. Him and Blow are out of the limelight, and I have not heard of whatever new game they are making, if they are.) Maybe the term jRPG is getting a better rep. We are living in an age where we have devs are making games that are inspired by games from their past. Like I am planning on my own. If it getting a more positive connotation, am I saying "It's okay now, get over it"? No. One I cannot people's mind, especially if it's already ingrained in their minds. But we are getting this level of cross pollination of genres and such. Like my favorite wRPG in a long while was Dragon's Dogma, and jRPG was Anachronox. Both games made by studios from the OPPOSING countries the terms came from! Should we keep it or get rid of the term? I honestly don't know if it should be depreciated or kept. |
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onpufan
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That sounds like the writers are just trying to save their own skin and trying to pretend they never wrote any of those jokes themselves. I'm sure the actors ad-libbed stuff to some degree but it feels disingenuous to try to blame it all on the one guy having a public meltdown and hoping no one looks into the staff listing to see who was actually writing the jokes as well. There were plenty of non-Sessler skits and actors that had people dressed up in yellowface like Mr Yunioshi. |
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liatris
Posts: 59 |
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I understand that technically it simply refers to Japanese RPGs, but I think review sites should be more cautious. Because the name of the country is attached to the genre name, every time you express your opinion, it will be given some meaning to Japan and the Japanese people. But it's ridiculous that reviewers don't rate software badly because they don't want to badmouth Japan. So I think it's easier to understand if the country and genre names are separated. For example, it is understandable if the country that produced the game and the genre name are written together. But even then, you'll notice that some of the nuances of JRPGs are lost. Coming up with a good genre name and making it widely popular seems like a pretty daunting task. |
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omegafinal
Posts: 125 |
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Well, the other definition is more or less a set of things. Like for me, a jRPG typically will have a defined character or set of characters, a structured linear story. Effectively following the character, while wRPG typically puts you in the character's shoes and your choices matter. But yeah, there is that cross-pollination like I mentioned, which is one of the reasons why I mentioned those two games, and basically making those terms more like "artifact names". There is also a PAXEast panel that one year talking about the differences about jRPGs and wRPG, may need to watch it again. Thankfully it is filmed at a panel room that was livestreamed, hopefully Twitch still has it. (ADDON: It's still there! Here's the link for those interested. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/248060539?t=00h31m22s) And also thinking about it, it does make me wonder and worry about Final Fantasy XVI. It looks amazing overall. But given everything I'm hearing, there is that worry that I am not getting "Final Fantasy", because it seems like it is trend chasing at the expense of its own identity, especially from what this ANN piece is maybe implying for a lack of better word. Like Bravely Default, that was best Final Fantasy game I've played in years, and it doesn't even bare the game. (Yes, I know that was originally a sequel/follow up to the DS game, Final Fantasy: The Four Heroes of Light.)
I guess there is a reason why we like to use terms like Souls-like. I think recently with Vampire Survivors, we are still trying to come up with name that is NOT VS-like. |
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enurtsol
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Talking about dress up, have ya guys seen Jack Black's Bowser cosplay got his balls censored on TV last week 
(Jack Black voices Bowser in the upcoming Super Mario Bros movie) 
For a Western take, The Amazing World of Gumball has an entire episode about how they view JRPGs - "The Console"
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Top Gun
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Been meaning to come back and comment on this one, but I didn't have the chance until now. I want to preface things by saying that I can absolutely see where YoshiP is coming from. Some of these reviews and comments from over a decade ago that are seeing the light of day again were hideously racist, and I absolutely remember other conversations at the time that, while not nearly so overt, definitely contributed to othering most Japanese-developed games. It goes without saying that this was Not Okay back then, and even more so now. No one should ever be made to be inferior for no other reason than where they live and create their work.
I feel like I have a bit of a different perspective on this, in that I'm not a fan of what usually get labeled as "JRPGs" at all, or RPGs as a whole for that matter. (To be honest, I don't have a lot of interest in the majority of the games featured in this column, but I absolutely enjoy reading Jean-Karlo's writing.) The only JRPG I've ever played to completion was the DS port of Chrono Trigger, based on hearing it being touted as a masterpiece for so long, and shocking no one it was worthy of every bit of that phrase. Unfortunately I think starting with that game spoiled me somewhat, because when I later tried out the GBA port of FF6, it felt straight-up primitive by comparison. I felt like I could get through a good 90% of the game by walking a few steps, hitting an encounter, mashing A on my character's regular/special attack, then moving on to repeat ad nauseam. I enjoyed the characters and story, the music was great, but the core gameplay loop felt like mind-numbing tedium, especially when compared to Chrono Trigger's much snappier combo system and position-based attacks. I've honestly made it all the way up to the final dungeon at least twice, but then I wind up putting it aside because I know it'll be a massive chore to actually complete. Obviously those two games are just the tiny tip of the iceberg, but there hasn't been much else that's compelled me enough to give it a try. I think a big part of it is that my favorite games tend to be those with fairly simple core systems that can be refined and mastered over a long period of time, whereas my impression of JRPGs is that many tend to have overly-complex battle or mechanical systems, which usually isn't what I'm looking for in a game. One other thing I find interesting is that, as much of a long-time anime fan as I am, I tend to avoid games that look or feel too "anime," if that makes any sense. (I was admittedly one of those people decrying the addition of "yet another anime swordfighter" to Smash.) I'm not entirely sure why it is, either. Maybe part of it is that there are certain storytelling elements or tropes that are relatively easy to swallow if I'm just passively watching a series, but if I'm asked to actively play my way through them, they become a lot more cringe-inducing. Perhaps another part is that most of my favorite anime series tend to have substantially different aesthetics than your average anime-styled game, which seem to go for "generic sword-and-sorcery fantasy" much more often than not. (Even though I don't think I'd like the gameplay all that much, Ni no Kuni stuck out to me in a big way because of how gorgeous it looked.) Hell, maybe I've just internalized too many of those sentiments from 10 or 15 years ago despite myself. Whatever the reason, I look at most JRPGs and bounce off their aesthetics really hard. It's probably not a fair thing at all, but it's my honest reaction. Regarding the notion that JRPGs aren't "real RPGs" because of their traditional lack of true character-building and meaningful player choice, well...I think that might be worthy of a bit of discussion, discounting the pejorative way it's usually framed. My early gaming experience was much more on the PC side of things, and even though I didn't play any of them myself, I hung out with a lot of people online who talked up classic CRPGs, particularly the Black Isle Studios properties (OG Fallout, Icewind Dale, Baldur's Gate, etc.). They still define a lot of what I view as "role-playing" in a game: building a character, and then choosing how that character approaches the game world. Even more modern games like the newer Fallouts and Mass Effect which use very different combat systems still place heavy importance on player choice and agency (even if the latter face-planted at the very end). Early JRPGs were obviously heavily inspired by D&D and CRPG titans like Ultima and Wizardry, but the series they launched have by and large used those mechanics to tell mostly-linear stories featuring already-defined characters. With how they're presented, I feel like some of those games could be more accurately described as "adventure games that use RPG-style stat/combat mechanics." I'm not trying to knock that sort of game at all, far from it, but I do think there's merit in saying that they don't allow for much "role-playing" in the traditional sense of the phrase. The one hot take I will throw out there is that I absolutely consider random encounters with invisible enemies to be a primitive game mechanic that should have been consigned to the dustbin of history decades ago. The only reason they existed in the first place is because the hardware at the time wasn't able to render the enemies on-screen, and there was no good reason to continue doing so once that hurdle could be cleared. Hell, I'm playing through Zelda 2 right now, and even that weird half-RPG black sheep of its series could manage visible enemy encounters all the way back in 1987. Random encounters are the reason I've burned out on those FF6 playthroughs, because I just can't stand being interrupted every five steps by something I had no way of seeing beforehand. Last edited by Top Gun on Thu Mar 09, 2023 3:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Heishi
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As a longtime Nintendo, I can confirm this is sadly true. ESPECIALLY on the Smash Bros, side, good lord. The anti FE bias is insane. |
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BadNewsBlues
Posts: 6076 |
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Couldn’t resist could you? |
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