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Clarste wrote:

Pixelationist wrote:

It just seems like every second Asuna is on screen she is getting nerfed further from a badass and into a housewife. spoiler[Last couple eps she's shown us just how useful she is in the kitchen, had her honour defended by trenchcoat hunk, cried like a girly girl on his shoulders for like 5 mins straight after having her ass saved by him, and quit that prestigious guild to be at her man's beckon call.]

I'm not trolling here, but I honestly think this is a straight up terrible show. It's cheesy without being really fun, it's self serious without being remotely poignant. The design of the world feels super generic and without any distinctive visual features it can truly claim its own.

I feel like my main enjoyment of this show is the catharsis of being really annoyed by it.

...did you somehow miss the part where she was already trying to take a break from the guild? And spoiler[she was crying because she (indirectly) put his life in danger, which is fundamentally different from "I just got saved" crying. Ignoring the fact that she herself saved him less than 5 minutes earlier.]

I won't say you have to like the show, and frankly it's not that well made in the first place (just look at the animation!), but when your complaints don't actually make any sense and imply you were deliberately not paying attention...

I'm aware that she was crying not because she was scared, but more how thankful she was that her precious Kirito was safe and sound. I guess what annoyed me was the 1 to 100% skyrocket growth of affection that girls tend to experience around the great Kirito-sama.

But you are right, this is not a show I watch with eyes glued to the screen, quite frankly the details are not that interesting to me, I just want to know where it's all generally going.

Mad_Scientist wrote:

spoiler[I don't mind Asuna hesitating to or being unable to kill someone begging for his life, even though he was a murderer, but I didn't want to have Kirito rescue her so soon after she saved him, as it was nice seeing Kirito being the one saved for once. Ah well.]

spoiler[I have to wonder how much of that swing would have damaged Asuna? Also, Kirito saving her at the end probably would have happened if it was some one else.]

Pixelationist wrote:

I'm aware that she was crying not because she was scared, but more how thankful she was that her precious Kirito was safe and sound. I guess what annoyed me was the 1 to 100% skyrocket growth of affection that girls tend to experience around the great Kirito-sama.

But you are right, this is not a show I watch with eyes glued to the screen, quite frankly the details are not that interesting to me, I just want to know where it's all generally going.

The anime does a pretty crappy job explaining this, but Asuna has been interested in Kirito for quite some time. The episode with Liz the blacksmith should've spelled it out better. In the light novel, Asuna basically states she's very romantically inclined toward Kirito during that storyline.

I am of two thoughts about this episode.

I think episode 10 was better than the previous episodes. It had more interesting battles:spoiler[ Kirito vs. Heathcliffe was very fun, and the battle ended in the way that it should have, also the part with Kuradeel coming back for revenge and needing to be killed off was very enjoyable. I wanted to see him smacked down quite a while ago, but I guess it felt even better to see him killed off once I saw he was in fact a murderer. I actually wasn't that put off by the romance between Asuna and Kirito.] Yes it does feel a little rushed, but that may be in part because we haven't seen all of their interactions together.

That being said, I will say that I still haven't seen very much positive development of Asuna. She does still seem kind of stuck as a sort of "cool girl" love interest for Kirito. spoiler[I was VERY happy to see her come and save Kirito for once. If that had been how that scene finished, I would have been WAY positive on that part. However, after she applies a total smack down to Kuradeel, then she goes soft and Kirito had to save her again. It didn't totally eliminate the positive feeling I had from her saving him, but it diminished it a little bit.] spoiler[The part where she asks Kirito to come stay with her, I was actually OK with that. I also had no issue with her taking off her clothes in front of him. That was her choice, not something being forced on her by a man. She is in love with him and wanted to have sex.] That's cool. Unfortunately, that whole scene at her house did reinforced her role as Kirito's love interest and didn't do much as far as developing her as an individual character, but I wasn't offended by it and didn't feel it undermined her like the stuff in Ep 8 and Ep 9 did.

spoiler[Kirito and Asuna becoming married and moving away from the front lines, I'll wait to see how that plays out.] I'm not sure yet what I think about that.

spoiler[I am glad that they had Kirito talking a bit more about his experience with his first guild.] It was nice to try and humanize him a bit more, but unfortunately that is not something new to the plot. To develop him more, they really need to be introducing some new content such as stuff before he went into SAO or something new that he's learned while being there.

So in sum, I think the plot is moving along much better than it was early on. The episode was very entertaining. However, Asuna's character development continues to drag poorly, and Kirito is only slightly more compelling now than he was last episode. This show is entertaining for me right now, but not at the top of my list. In fact, the last few episodes of Accel World have been better than SAO for me.

P.S. I wonder if certain individuals who were arguing with me in The Stream's talkback are going to agree that a few of my assertions from that thread were correct now given what we saw in Episode 10.spoiler[ (e.g. Asuna punched Kirito again in a safe town area, and I don't think you can really argue it was just a joke again, and Asuna was clearly a far superior fighter to Kuradeel.)]

Pixelationist wrote:

It just seems like every second Asuna is on screen she is getting nerfed further from a badass and into a housewife. spoiler[Last couple eps she's shown us just how useful she is in the kitchen, had her honour defended by trenchcoat hunk, cried like a girly girl on his shoulders for like 5 mins straight after having her ass saved by him, and quit that prestigious guild to be at her man's beckon call.]

I'm not trolling here, but I honestly think this is a straight up terrible show. It's cheesy without being really fun, it's self serious without being remotely poignant. The design of the world feels super generic and without any distinctive visual features it can truly claim its own.

I feel like my main enjoyment of this show is the catharsis of being really annoyed by it.

Look, it's quite clear that you don't like the show, but if you're going to bother to criticize it at least base your criticisms on what actually happened, not your funky assumptions about what you think happened.

Geez, and here I thought the way this episode played out might actually put an end to some of the criticisms leveled against the series in this and other certain threads, but it seems like people are just looking for things to trash the series on. spoiler[Asuna saved Kirito here and utterly thrashed the guy in the process, proving quite definitively that she's not the doormat beholden to a Gary Stu for protection that naysayers have been insisting.] Clearly that wasn't enough to satisfy those who seem dead-set intent on continuing the sexism angle, though, so now we're complaining about spoiler[how Kirito had to finish the guy off when Asuna wouldn't]? Please. There's absolutely nothing wrong with spoiler[a player being reluctant to finish off another player - even one who's proven to be a dangerous murderer - and it's not like Kuradeel was going to take a full-health-barred, not-paralyzed Asuna out with a single blow anyway. IOW, Kirito didn't save her back so much as just do the dirty work.]

Oh, wait. So now we're complaining about Asuna getting all weepy and vulnerable over Kirito again? Why shouldn't she, when spoiler[he just about cashed out again - and would have, if she hadn't been so alert]? Gods, people, what are you expecting of her here? I'll grant you that the series went light on showing their relationship development, but given the way things played out in episode 9, I have no problem with how things are trending here with their relationship. It's what I wanted to see anyway. And, frankly, I'll be curious to see how this all goes over with Heathcliff.

And speaking on him, I find it curious that no one's commented on the duel and its outcome yet. Was that and the later events enough to spoiler[shake people's complaints about Kirito being a Gary Stu]?

EDIT: I was apparently in the process of writing the above when ChibiKangaroo's most recent post came up so none of the above is a direct response to that. The following is:

ChibiKangaroo wrote:

P.S. I wonder if certain individuals who were arguing with me in The Stream's talkback are going to agree that a few of my assertions from that thread were correct now given what we saw in Episode 10.spoiler[ (e.g. Asuna punched Kirito again in a safe town area, and I don't think you can really argue it was just a joke again, and Asuna was clearly a far superior fighter to Kuradeel.)]

No, it was absolutely the same deal as last time. Again, that's a very, very standard anime element, especially in romantic comedies. I'm much more curious about what happened after that, since next we see spoiler[Asuna apparently sleeping naked in bed with Kirito at her bedside]. Wink

I was curious about how Heathcliff managed to pull that off. That one point where they slowed time and you saw the expression on Kirito's face, it was pretty clear that Kirito thought it was something incredible. I suspect that Heathcliff's "unique skill" will come up again later.

And wouldn't it be interesting if Heathcliff was the persona of the Creator? Heh. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Anyway, I thought it was a pretty good episode. Oh, and WTF was Kirito thinking? Once they got to Asuna's place and she was getting ready to go, he was all, "I only wanted to sleep here..." Uh... yeah. Dude. You need help. Razz

Key wrote:

And speaking on him, I find it curious that no one's commented on the duel and its outcome yet.

I think Kirito is spoiler[still a complete badass, but Accel World-style time manipulation will beat even the most badass of players.]

Key wrote:

No, it was absolutely the same deal as last time. Again, that's a very, very standard anime element, especially in romantic comedies. I'm much more curious about what happened after that, since next we see spoiler[Asuna apparently sleeping naked in bed with Kirito at her bedside]. Wink

Yeah, I think it's implying what we all think. spoiler[The part that makes me unsure is that he's dressed and not in the bed with her. Did it play out where she just decides to get in bed nude and tells him to turn away? These are the important details; not the main story.]

As for how Asuna acted: spoiler[I don't think anything she did showed her as a delicate, wallflower or as inferior to anyone else. If anything, this episode retained her femininity (I don't think I've used that word before...) while also demonstrating her fighting prowess. The he-fights-for-her-she-saves-his-life-he-finishes-the-guy-off thing was a pretty good display that their relationship is that of equals, regardless of who may be stronger and so forth. By the end of the episode, I entirely expected the marriage proposal because it fit; it was nearly as blatant as saying "I view you as an equal and love you."]

Tuor_of_Gondolin wrote:

Anyway, I thought it was a pretty good episode. Oh, and WTF was Kirito thinking? Once they got to Asuna's place and she was getting ready to go, he was all, "I only wanted to sleep here..." Uh... yeah. Dude. You need help. Razz

spoiler[He just wanted to be comforted because he kind of went through the traumatic experience of nearly being killed by a psychopath and then being forced to kill someone. Why would he want to have sex? He just wanted to make sure he doesn't have nightmares about this for the rest of his life. Priorities.

Of course, I don't think he turned it down once the offer had been made... That was a classic PG13 sex scene.]

To me this shows biggest problem is trying to do the entire story plus the side stories in only 12 episodes. There is plenty of material to easily cover a 24 episode anime without it getting slow.

Hmm, only 2 more episodes left in the series and they are only on floor 75 out of 100.

Key wrote:

Please. There's absolutely nothing wrong with spoiler[a player being reluctant to finish off another player - even one who's proven to be a dangerous murderer - and it's not like Kuradeel was going to take a full-health-barred, not-paralyzed Asuna out with a single blow anyway. IOW, Kirito didn't save her back so much as just do the dirty work.]

That whole part isn't an uncommon thing in stories when it comes to letting someone who is clearly evil live. The same thing would have happened if Asuna was not the person involved.

Quote:

Oh, wait. So now we're complaining about Asuna getting all weepy and vulnerable over Kirito again? Why shouldn't she, when spoiler[he just about cashed out again - and would have, if she hadn't been so alert]?

I guess people should be emotionless when someone close to you or your loved ones was on the verge of death?

Quote:

And speaking on him, I find it curious that no one's commented on the duel and its outcome yet. Was that and the later events enough to spoiler[shake people's complaints about Kirito being a Gary Stu]?

Probably not. Wink

The duel did show that something is up with Heath though (two unique skills?)

rosebowl89 wrote:

To me this shows biggest problem is trying to do the entire story plus the side stories in only 12 episodes. There is plenty of material to easily cover a 24 episode anime without it getting slow.

Hmm, only 2 more episodes left in the series and they are only on floor 75 out of 100.

The show is 2-cour so it'll be at least 24 episodes.

superdry wrote:

Mad_Scientist wrote:

spoiler[I don't mind Asuna hesitating to or being unable to kill someone begging for his life, even though he was a murderer, but I didn't want to have Kirito rescue her so soon after she saved him, as it was nice seeing Kirito being the one saved for once. Ah well.]

spoiler[I have to wonder how much of that swing would have damaged Asuna? Also, Kirito saving her at the end probably would have happened if it was some one else.]

spoiler[True, it wasn't some horrible, it's just after seeing Asuna be badass for once, the show had to go and remind us that Kirito's a badass too. We know that by now, we don't need the show to constantly remind us, but I guess after being defeated by Heathcliff and nearly dying, they felt we needed a reminder. It was a little disappointing, simply because I felt it took away a bit from Asuna's moment to shine.
]

Key wrote:

ChibiKangaroo wrote:

P.S. I wonder if certain individuals who were arguing with me in The Stream's talkback are going to agree that a few of my assertions from that thread were correct now given what we saw in Episode 10.spoiler[ (e.g. Asuna punched Kirito again in a safe town area, and I don't think you can really argue it was just a joke again, and Asuna was clearly a far superior fighter to Kuradeel.)]

No, it was absolutely the same deal as last time. Again, that's a very, very standard anime element, especially in romantic comedies. I'm much more curious about what happened after that, since next we see spoiler[Asuna apparently sleeping naked in bed with Kirito at her bedside]. Wink

I checked the Light Novel, and that chapter (LN spoilers) spoiler[makes it pretty clear what happened, even if you ignore the explicit "16.5" chapter that never made it in the official release. Yah, they did it.]

Speaking of this show, did any of you order the import of the single of the OP, Crossing Field, from Aniplex?

I got the special anime edtion, with the Kirito/Asuna poster and the DD and everything, in the mail today no less than 30 minutes ago. It's realy hitchig, with badass packaging too. Easily the best CD I've ever bought.

I'm listening to the OP right now, indeed. 'Tis quite a badass OP.

Key wrote:

ChibiKangaroo wrote:

P.S. I wonder if certain individuals who were arguing with me in The Stream's talkback are going to agree that a few of my assertions from that thread were correct now given what we saw in Episode 10.spoiler[ (e.g. Asuna punched Kirito again in a safe town area, and I don't think you can really argue it was just a joke again, and Asuna was clearly a far superior fighter to Kuradeel.)]

No, it was absolutely the same deal as last time. Again, that's a very, very standard anime element, especially in romantic comedies. I'm much more curious about what happened after that, since next we see spoiler[Asuna apparently sleeping naked in bed with Kirito at her bedside]. Wink

I agree with you that it is a standard element in romantic comedies, but I don't agree that it can be an excuse for her to keep doing that and still claim that there is no way for a person to punch, kick, or restrain other individuals in so called safe areas. I'm not saying it makes her stronger than Kirito, but I am saying that that, along with spoiler[(Kuradeel grabbing Asuna's arm and dragging her along in Ep 8), (Kirito grabbing Kuradeel's arm and removing it from Asuna's in Ep 8), the super punch from Ep 8, the Black Cats or whatever that guild Kirito joined was called - there is a scene with them play fighting with each other and restraining each other in headlocks and such... Also, the fact that people can apparently be imprisoned (the PKers from episode 4 and the bad guy from episode 6).] I am sure I could find many other examples if I combed through every video. There does seem to be some level of realism in how people can physically interact in safe zones which allows for simple altercations or restraining actions. It just seems that people can't have their health be reduced or be killed.

Also, you didn't really respond to my second point there. Don't you agree that Asuna was clearly more powerful than Kuradeel? In fact, spoiler[what she did in this episode was more or less exactly what I was asking for in episode 8. After she checked to make sure Kirito was OK, she looked at him and was like "I've got this." Then she squashed Kuradeel like a bug.] Why was I so wrong to ask for her to have that same level of confidence and conviction in episode 8? I think I was dead on, given what happened here.

Last edited by Key on Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:20 pm; edited 1 time in total

Tuor_of_Gondolin wrote:

And wouldn't it be interesting if Heathcliff was the persona of the Creator? Heh. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Actually, I had the exact same thought right before reading your post, and the more I think about it, the more it makes a lot of sense. It would certainly put him in the best position to monitor the game at the ground-level, after all, and would be the least conspicuous way to do it.

Rhyono wrote:

I think Kirito is spoiler[still a complete badass, but Accel World-style time manipulation will beat even the most badass of players.]

Is that what was going on there? I saw someone alluding to evidence of spoiler[An Accel World] connection in another thread, and that would give more credence to Tuor's comment above. It definitely was more of a "pulled it out of his ass" maneuver than anything Kirito has done to date.

Oh, and for those who didn't catch it, Kirito's level as of this episode is 96.

EDIT: Dammit, all these postings are going on while I'm writing up stuff. . .

ChibiKangaroo wrote:

Also, you didn't really respond to my second point there. Don't you agree that Asuna was clearly more powerful than Kuradeel? In fact, spoiler[what she did in this episode was more or less exactly what I was asking for in episode 8. After she checked to make sure Kirito was OK, she looked at him and was like "I've got this." Then she squashed Kuradeel like a bug.] Why was I so wrong to ask for her to have that same level of confidence and conviction in episode 8? I think I was dead on, given what happened here.

Sorry, just didn't see it as being a separate point. There's no question that she's more powerful than Kuradeel, but spoiler[this is an utterly different situation than episode 8. Here she didn't have to worry about making a bad public impression by beating up one of her own guild members where everyone could see, had massively more incentive to take him on physically, and didn't have anyone else to get rid of the pest for her. And while Asuna seems like a pretty straightforward character, it's not entirely out of the question that she was just playing vulnerable to give Kirito a reason to step up for her and thus a more subtle "out" on separating herself from the guild for a while.] But I know that you weren't too accepting of any of these justifications back in episode 8, so that was probably just a waste of my time. Rolling Eyes

Does SAO even have a level cap?

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