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jl07045
Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Posts: 1527
Location: Riga, Latvia
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 Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:58 pm
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| Spotlesseden wrote: | | it depends on what MMO, I once solo a high level boss(Baphomet) in Ragnarok online that would kill me in two hits. |
Not with a game-breaking überskill, I assume. This always involves kiting unless there's some exploit.
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Spotlesseden
Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: earth
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:59 pm
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| ChibiKangaroo wrote: | | My opinion on the fact that his health didn't regen after the fight - that was an accidental plot hole. They probably forgot about it or just decided to ignore it for this particular fight to increase the drama. They wanted to have that moment afterwards where Kirito passes out (heroes always pass out after expending their super god-mode or "NOOOO" ability). Also, he couldn't joke abou Asuna hugging him to death if he didn't have like 1 HP left. This was the anime creators just being forgetful or lazy IMO. |
but you have no prove. Opinion is not equal to fact. He has more than 1 HP lol. probably like 1%.
you need to find a sense that show his HP doesn't increase after 10 secs. The Joke can't prove that he doesn't gain 600HP.
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dtm42
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:02 pm
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| jl07045 wrote: | | An effect implemented in a lot of games. The Elder Scrolls series for example. |
Yes, but they're in a virtual reality world where they can't feel pain even when hurt and every sense is merely simulated. Getting out of breath seems strange.
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Yttrbio
Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 3655
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:05 pm
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| Spotlesseden wrote: |
| ChibiKangaroo wrote: | | My opinion on the fact that his health didn't regen after the fight - that was an accidental plot hole. They probably forgot about it or just decided to ignore it for this particular fight to increase the drama. They wanted to have that moment afterwards where Kirito passes out (heroes always pass out after expending their super god-mode or "NOOOO" ability). Also, he couldn't joke abou Asuna hugging him to death if he didn't have like 1 HP left. This was the anime creators just being forgetful or lazy IMO. |
but you have no prove. Opinion is not equal to fact. He has more than 1 HP lol. probably like 1%.
you need to find a sense that show his HP doesn't increase after 10 secs. The Joke can't prove that he doesn't gain 600HP. |
Actually, we don't have to do anything. There's no prize for "most correct assessment of what went on that episode." Folks are simply struggling with understanding the mechanics of a foreign world, and the show is not particularly generous about explaining them, leading to a lot of guesswork and assumptions. Not everyone has the time or inclination to comb over the show to achieve near-encyclopedic knowledge of what is presented. There's no need to be a dick about it.
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jl07045
Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Posts: 1527
Location: Riga, Latvia
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:06 pm
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| dtm42 wrote: |
| jl07045 wrote: | | An effect implemented in a lot of games. The Elder Scrolls series for example. |
Yes, but they're in a virtual reality world where they can't feel pain even when hurt and every sense is merely simulated. Getting out of breath seems strange. |
Wouldn't the best way to use that specific mechanic in a virtual reality game be to simulate fatigue by sending false info to the brain? On that note, have they explained food? Doesn't seem that they are using it (just) for stat boosts. Maybe hunger is simulated as well.
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dtm42
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:11 pm
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I just rewatched the fight and I had the following observation: if a hero is in the middle of a big fight that he's currently not winning and asks himself "Do I have to use that?", you know that sh*t's gonna go down.
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jl07045
Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Posts: 1527
Location: Riga, Latvia
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:16 pm
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| dtm42 wrote: | | I just rewatched the fight and I had the following observation: if a hero is in the middle of a big fight that he's currently not winning and asks himself "Do I have to use that?", you know that sh*t's gonna go down. |
A storytelling technique usually used in shonen or hentai.
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Yttrbio
Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 3655
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:19 pm
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Down... like my opinion of the writers.
Wait, hentai? No, no, don't tell me. It's better in my head.
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Spotlesseden
Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: earth
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:26 pm
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| Yttrbio wrote: |
| Spotlesseden wrote: |
| ChibiKangaroo wrote: | | My opinion on the fact that his health didn't regen after the fight - that was an accidental plot hole. They probably forgot about it or just decided to ignore it for this particular fight to increase the drama. They wanted to have that moment afterwards where Kirito passes out (heroes always pass out after expending their super god-mode or "NOOOO" ability). Also, he couldn't joke abou Asuna hugging him to death if he didn't have like 1 HP left. This was the anime creators just being forgetful or lazy IMO. |
but you have no prove. Opinion is not equal to fact. He has more than 1 HP lol. probably like 1%.
you need to find a sense that show his HP doesn't increase after 10 secs. The Joke can't prove that he doesn't gain 600HP. |
Actually, we don't have to do anything. There's no prize for "most correct assessment of what went on that episode." Folks are simply struggling with understanding the mechanics of a foreign world, and the show is not particularly generous about explaining them, leading to a lot of guesswork and assumptions. Not everyone has the time or inclination to comb over the show to achieve near-encyclopedic knowledge of what is presented. There's no need to be a dick about it. |
being dick about? i just point out what happen. They show his HP bar for 1 sec to let the viewer know that the fight is close.
How can you look at the HP bar for 1 sec and determite that he doesn't have the recovery ability? The show already explained his ability, 600HP/10secs. You guys just don't want to believe it.
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dtm42
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:36 pm
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If it isn't a percentage of his maximum health and instead an item or something that always gives a fixed HP recovery, then it is possible that he now has so much health (like, twenty or thirty thousand) that it barely makes a difference to his HP bar.
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Posts: 3524
Location: Bellevue, WA
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:08 pm
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| dtm42 wrote: | | If it isn't a percentage of his maximum health and instead an item or something that always gives a fixed HP recovery, then it is possible that he now has so much health (like, twenty or thirty thousand) that it barely makes a difference to his HP bar. |
Yes, but the reason why real MMOs don't use that method (none that I've played recently, anyway) is that it would make soloing monsters of your level pretty much impossible to do on a regular basis: you'd kill one, then have to wait *forever* to regain all your HP back. So, no grinding. I think the 600HP/tick is probably based on some percentage of his total HP at the time of that episode and that whatever that percentage is, it would remain constant (unless altered by a skill or stat-increase) regardless of level.
The reason I know this so well is because when I played Everquest, you *did* regain HP at a fixed rate that never changed. But that game had healers, and as a Warrior, I wasn't really supposed to be soloing. But because I did, I had a *LOT* of downtime (20-30 minutes after each kill) and I had to be *very* careful about the mobs I went up against. Modern MMOs did away with that mechanic entirely, and SAO doesn't have healers at all. So it would almost have to have some expedient way for PCs to regain their HPs between fights.
(Yes, this over-analysis of HP recovery was brought to you by Tuor. Tuor can supply all your over-analyzing needs. Contact Tuor today!)
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dtm42
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:22 pm
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Not only does Sword Art Online not have healers but it doesn't even have proper magic, so yeah, some sort of percentage-based health recovery would be necessary. Unless players are instantly and automatically healed once the battle is over?
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rosebowl89
Joined: 21 Aug 2012
Posts: 25
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:52 pm
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| jl07045 wrote: |
| dtm42 wrote: |
| jl07045 wrote: | | An effect implemented in a lot of games. The Elder Scrolls series for example. |
Yes, but they're in a virtual reality world where they can't feel pain even when hurt and every sense is merely simulated. Getting out of breath seems strange. |
Wouldn't the best way to use that specific mechanic in a virtual reality game be to simulate fatigue by sending false info to the brain? On that note, have they explained food? Doesn't seem that they are using it (just) for stat boosts. Maybe hunger is simulated as well. |
Just like all the senses, Hunger, Fatigue, and temperature is all simulated. Its not real so like we saw in "Warmth of the Heart" it can be ignored with enough will power, but the sensation doesn't go away until its addressed. Pain could be simulated in the same way, but they designed it to just cause discomfort, or no one would want to play.
The need to sleep however is not simulated, its real because the brain still needs to rest every night.
I wish they didn't condense the anime so much, because all these details are addressed in the LN and should be mentioned in the anime.
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Saffire
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 1256
Location: Iowa, USA
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:03 pm
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| dtm42 wrote: | | Yes, but they're in a virtual reality world where they can't feel pain even when hurt and every sense is merely simulated. Getting out of breath seems strange. |
It could just be a mental thing. Even though you don't actually have to breathe in game, after running a long distance, your brain's expectation is that you should be out of breath. Regardless of how the game is programmed, your brain still has a great deal of control over how your body behaves.
| ChibiKangaroo wrote: | | My opinion on the fact that his health didn't regen after the fight - that was an accidental plot hole. They probably forgot about it or just decided to ignore it for this particular fight to increase the drama. They wanted to have that moment afterwards where Kirito passes out (heroes always pass out after expending their super god-mode or "NOOOO" ability). Also, he couldn't joke about Asuna hugging him to death if he didn't have like 1 HP left. This was the anime creators just being forgetful or lazy IMO. |
Because the stories were written in a really disjointed manner, there's a lot of inconsistencies between stories, especially between side stories and the main one. Don't read too much into the healing thing.
| dtm42 wrote: | | Not only does Sword Art Online not have healers but it doesn't even have proper magic, so yeah, some sort of percentage-based health recovery would be necessary. Unless players are instantly and automatically healed once the battle is over? |
The primary method of healing in the game is health recovery items (which most players will carry a large stock of). HP recovery skills aren't meant to be a primary healing method, since that would reduce the danger of the game. If you're good enough to dodge most attacks, you can solo, and if not, then you party and use tactics that emphasize minimizing damage taken.
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Riddley
Joined: 14 May 2011
Posts: 536
Location: Ireland
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:41 pm
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Why y'all mad, bros?
Seriously, y'all are arguing more about MMO mechanics than discussing the anime itself.
I'm assuming someone has already spoiled the following facts, but unless you want to read stuff that's revealed in the LNs and may or may not be revealed later, don't click this:
The game relies heavily on the players own speed (consider it how much their mind can influence their "physical" abilities in the game) coupled with their stats. Kirito has exceptionally high agility and a decent strength stats. He focused on them to the point of excluding others. This allows him to hit and hit fast, as well as crit. He's a damage dealer and secondary tank, if you want to use MMO terms.
So, understanding that he has very high stats and the fact that he's one of the fastest players in the game, if not the fastest, you can understand how the Unique Skill he has (called Duel Blades) is exceptionally powerful. Especially since this game is focused solely on melee combat. Only one other player has a Unique Skill, and that's the leader of Asuna's guild. And using that Unique Skill he was able to tank a boss solo for ages while the forward team regrouped after getting their arses handed to them.
So there you go, read that spoiler at your own risk.
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