Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Chainsaw Man
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moozooh
Posts: 150 |
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Being its own thing is fine and all, but how does it work the best when the emotional response is already lopsided? Fujimoto, much like Satoru Noda and other similar authors, relies heavily on the tonal dynamics to deliver meaningful impacts at a high pace. The serious parts don't exist in a vacuum; they're given weight by the goofy parts in between, and vice versa. If you present all of them in largely the same tone, that'd be like going to watch a 3D movie wearing an eyepatch. You'll only be seeing part of the picture, and no 3D effect.
Don't get me wrong, I think he understands what he's doing pretty well, and I also do, but it's evident to me that in pursuing his grand ambition, he's biting off more than he can chew. This likely would be less of a problem if he had more directorial experience under his belt. For what it's worth, it'd be an ambitious project even for an experienced director, let alone a debutante. I don't think I've seen something like this in a seasonal show since... I don't know, Violet Evergarden, perhaps? Prior to the adaptation's announcement, I was extremely worried that whenever it would come, it had a high risk of ruining the more serious scenes by fast-forwarding through the quiet scenes and focusing on the action instead (kind of like One-Punch Man). I thought the quality of the adaptation would be determined by how well it could adapt the serious parts. It's ironic that I got exactly what I wanted (careful what you wish for!), but at the cost I wasn't fully prepared to pay. You were; more power to you. |
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TheSleepyMonkey
Posts: 921 |
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[quote="moozooh"][quote="TheSleepyMonkey"]I still feel this kind of approach works the best of the series, as least when it comes to the type of storytelling, specially considering how Fujimoto himself activately declared during Jump Festa that he [b]didn't[/b] want the anime to just try to emulate the manga, but rather be it's own thing.[/quote]
Being its own thing is fine and all, but how does it work the best when the emotional response is already lopsided? Fujimoto, much like Satoru Noda and other similar authors, relies heavily on the tonal dynamics to deliver meaningful impacts at a high pace. The serious parts don't exist in a vacuum; they're given weight by the goofy parts in between, and vice versa. If you present all of them in largely the same tone, that'd be like going to watch a 3D movie wearing an eyepatch. You'll only be seeing part of the picture, and no 3D effect. [quote="TheSleepyMonkey"]And I know what's the point you're trying to make in that last bit, but the way you phrased it makes it sound like you're trying to say that Nakayama doesn't know what he's doing, which doesn't right with me, in all honesty.[/quote] Don't get me wrong, I think he understands what he's doing pretty well, and I also do, but it's evident to me that in pursuing his grand ambition, he's biting off more than he can chew. This likely would be less of a problem if he had more directorial experience under his belt. For what it's worth, it'd be an ambitious project even for an experienced director, let alone a debutante. I don't think I've seen something like this in a seasonal show since... I don't know, Violet Evergarden, perhaps? Prior to the adaptation's announcement, I was extremely worried that whenever it would come, it had a high risk of ruining the more serious scenes by fast-forwarding through the quiet scenes and focusing on the action instead (kind of like One-Punch Man). I thought the quality of the adaptation would be determined by how well it could adapt the serious parts. It's ironic that I got [i]exactly[/i] what I wanted (careful what you wish for!), but at the cost I wasn't fully prepared to pay. You were; more power to you.[/quote] Except that they are not being presented in the same tone at all, not even remotely so. Literally in this very episode there is a very palpable and completely different mood between the first half of the episode with the Leech devil, to Aki's morning routine, to Power arriving at the house + the final sequence with her and Denji. It goes from chaotic, to peaceful, to chaotic again. There's no "lopsided emotional scenes" anywhere. Even the tonal difference between Denji continuously tallking about touching breasts to him actually symphatizing with Power is still there. The purpose of an adaptation more than anything else is to translate the essence of a work into another medium - and Nakayama is doing just that, and doing a very good job with it. The emotional beats are still there, the goofy and chaotic nature of the series and it's characters are still there. Just communicates through other lens. Chainsaw Man was always a story that was more personal despite being chaotic - acting as if the adaptation doesn't capture that feel sounds more like you not understanding the material, which is quite ironic. "Biting more than you can chew" is a weird sentence to use for this context. That would imply Nakayama is doing something he can't, which is not at all accurate. He can, because he doesn't just have an ambition - he has the actual skills to pull it off along with people who are just as, if not even more skilled than him to support him. Sorry to say but all of this just comes off as an extreme nitpicking to me. This is a level of adaptation that most series, specially battle shonen WISH they could have, and you are getting it yourself yet to claim it's not a good one because it's one a 1:1 of the manga? I will not talk to you anymore, as I feel we are living in a time where people will [b]always[/b] find a reason to bitch about things even when they are getting the literal cream of the cop. |
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Everlasting Coconut
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Ditto, except I haven't really seen people complain about this. I just have so much fun watching this show. Of course the manga's just as fun too but I don't remember actually laughing reading it. I think it has to do with the VAs, who have been doing a fantastic job bringing these characters to life. The anime keeps getting one chuckle after another out of me. |
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moozooh
Posts: 150 |
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Which is completely fine by me because you just keep putting words in my mouth, and it's hard to argue against your own misinterpretations. |
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NeverConvex
 Subscriber Posts: 2356 |
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I've been quite happy with the comedic tone and timing of the show, but I've never read the manga, so I don't know if anything was lost. I find myself stupidly grinning throughout most episodes, though, and occasionally outright laughing. It has a great tone and sense of humor.
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8468 Location: Penguinopolis |
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Nothing like feeling up somebody on a toilet full of their caked up shit.
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Minos_Kurumada
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It's interesting to see how Makima manipulates Aki.
Instead of using a carrot and stick strategy, what she uses with Denji, she realices the guy is one of those with a weak ego and constantly validates him. |
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Philville
 Posts: 158 |
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Thanks for the info. It does sound like some material will need to be cut. Considering that there seems to be some disagreement between the “action” and “comedy” camps regarding the fidelity of the anime adaptation I wonder whether this is going to be a point of contention, depending on what doesn’t make the cut. Let’s wait and see.
I've only watched Jujustu Kaisen, Tokyo Ghoul and Attack on Titan but it's true that Jujutsu is the first one that came to mind as far as the similarities in style, action and overall tone are concerned. It probably helps that both Seshimo, the creative producer of Chainsaw Man, and Nakayama himself were involved in key animation for Jujutsu.
At least he knows how to brew a mean pot of filter coffee -- using old-school grinding and the proper pour-over technique, to boot. I’m so much of a coffee junkie that I actually enjoy watching other people brew and drink some… even if they’re animated people and coffee. Last time I was jonesing so bad for a cup of joe was while watching that episode of Uncle from Another World. But yes, drinking your java right after brushing your teeth isn’t exactly recommended, folks (then again Aki smokes too, so I guess dental hygiene or purity of flavor aren’t his primary concerns). 
These “filmic gestures” which give certain scenes a “cinematic” feel have turned out to be my favorite elements of the series so far and in my opinion they do more for characterization than some of the humor (which is always hit or miss). I guess I’m a sucker for slice-of-life -- even when the slicing is done with a chainsaw half of the time. |
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MFrontier
Posts: 11933 |
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Denji will do a lot for (consensual) copping a feel. Honestly his fight with the Leech Devil looked even better than the Bat Devil fight, even if Aki finally got to show off at the end.
And we got to meet the rest of the team! Himeno (surprise Mariya Ise)! Kobeni!!! The level of animation and direction for Aki's morning routine did not need to be as well-animated and depicted as it was. That was just...beautiful. Like, that's the kind of stuff you usually only see out of KyoAni or maybe PA Works. Aki's not as much of a Makima simp as Denji is, but he does have his moments. The only thing two roommates who bicker can get along on is another roommate who is the worst. Aki should've specified that they weren't out to make roommates rather than saying friends. Power sitting so proudly and offering her boobs up to Denji while blushing at his heroism...a toilet he was cleaning of her excrement...is definitely very Chainsaw Man. |
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Gem-Bug
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This adaption is knocking it out of the [expletive] park. <3
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Philville
Posts: 158 |
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Do you have a source for this? I'm not saying I don't believe you, I'm just interested in the animation process for CSM. Also, why do people often object to rotoscoping? It can fail for the many reasons we've talked about in this thread, but the results can also be quite impressive so I'm not sure why it so often catches flak. From the Episode 5 review:
Spot on. What killed me though was the animation of the horror-stricken heart attack reaction following his sexy interaction with Makima. I was laughing so hard that I was in tears.
I think this is also why the user who criticized the idea of releasing a Power tit-grabbing figure had a point about the irony of marketing a "sexy" Chainsaw Man ecchi figure when the show actually goes out of its way to make some profound and mature observations about sex, including the importance of empathy and emotional connection (even though I argued in that thread that the figure itself is probably meant to be tongue-in-cheek and its existence unsurprising from a marketing perspective). Anyway, thanks for another great review James! Last edited by Philville on Thu Nov 10, 2022 7:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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andramus
 Posts: 176 |
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I have mixed thoughts on this because I do think that an emotional connection enhances a sexual experience but I also believe that sex as a purely physical act between two (or more) parties can still be pleasurable and not a totally empty and unfulfilling experience. I think a meeting of minds and expectations is a needed component but not neccessarily a deep emotional bond. Sex work in various forms from prostitution, stripping, webcams etc. gets repeat business from customers. Ultimately the customers might not feel emotionally fulfilled from the interaction but they fact they keep coming back means they are getting something out of the experience. Denji clearly derived more pleasure from his interaction with Makima than his prior one with Power but how much of an emotional connection is truly there? Maybe Denji feels something genuine but at this stage it feels like any reciprocity on Makima's part is illusory. At the moment she simply seems to be manipulating Denji and whatever her true feelings towards him are not entirely clear. |
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Philville
Posts: 158 |
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That's a good point, and I admit that I did think about this too, since Makima is clearly manipulating him (in which case it doesn't really make sense to speak of an "emotional connection"). That said, there's a significant difference between the two boob-groping scenarios which ultimately comes down to emotional and psychological factors. I suppose the big difference is that, when it comes to their "intimacy" in that moment, Makima has already succeeded in f***ing with his mind (even before the purely physical aspects come into play), so that we might argue the episode explores topics like seduction, desire, longing and the irrational and/or unconscious. Makima is teaching Denji that sex is (or ought to be) a matter of personal feeling and interpersonal chemistry, not social pressure or expectation. Since her motives are so obviously (and comically) questionable, the episode itself may even be making a point about how sex inevitably involves a certain degree of manipulation. It could be all of those things at once, even if the whole situation is framed as comedy (it's as if the episode were saying, "there's touching a boob, and then there's touching a boob.") To put it differently, I do think that aside from the comic relief aspect of all of this, much of it seems to be depicting a gradual process of maturation (as I think James suggested in his review); Denji's existential goals go from wanting jam for his toast to touching a tit to something that is arguably more emotionally complex (even if it still involves copping a feel). I may be wrong about all of this since I haven't read the manga but there clearly seems to be some character development in this respect (with the added comedy of hormones continually getting in the way of any kind of profound insight). |
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tintor2
 Posts: 1905 |
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Everybody talking about sex and I am the only one more intrigued by the fact this anime is dealing with really heavy terrorist acts. One of them kinda looked a bit like what happened in 2001. I'm really surprised this series made it to the Weekly Shonen Jump considering present demographies being less violent when compared with previous works like Saint Seiya being toned down as the story progressed.
So yeah about the sexual attraction thing, I was sure it was going make a big impact in the media but I remember that already before the anime started the staff said their biggest concern was properly showing the interactions between Denji and Makima properly. I guess they did it fine. About the last minutes I think it feels like Reservoir Dogs (just like the opening). It kinda gives a typical shonen feel like Jujutsu Kaisen during the reunion with the Kyoto students but in this case the cast are mostly adults. The ending vid and theme blew my mind especially with another weird frame of Makima holding Denji like Jesus's cruxifiction. |
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Everlasting Coconut
Posts: 301 |
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Everything about the Makima scene was *chef's kiss*. But at the same time, it's so sad seeing Denji getting some genuinely good advice from someone who's clearly trying to use him. As if the power dynamic between the two wasn't already creepy enough.
Loving Denji and Power's friendship.
Hey, James, you don't need to express every single thought that goes through your head. |
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Also, who the hell drinks coffee right after brushing their teeth? That's gross!  |
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