Forum - View topicHow Much Does It Cost to License Anime Series?
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 7580 Location: Wales |
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Good point. I definitely remember there being a show where FUNimation announced shortly into the broadcast that they'd already licensed it, because the group that had started fabsubbing it stopped and another group immediately started subbing it anyway. --edit-- Trinity Blood looks like the specific one in my head: animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=311991#311991 Last edited by Shiroi Hane on Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Lord Geo
Posts: 2573 Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey |
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Yeah, I actually looked into this once, and the only anime that actually credited ADV directly as part of the production were Samurai Gun, the original Kino's Journey TV anime, & Chance Pop Session (plus Sin the Movie, if you want to count that). Kaleido Star, Bubblegum Crisis Tokyo 2040, & Elfen Lied don't list ADV in their credits, hence why FUNimation managed to eventually rescue the first two, though it's possible that ADV might have gotten involved late into production for Elfen Lied & snagged a recurring license, hence why that continues to see re-releases under the ADV logo, just like Kino does. As for why Chance Pop Session & Samurai Gun have never been re-released, despite ADV being part of the production for both, there could be a chance that Avex Mode, which was also one of the producers, could be a licensing hurdle. The most interesting, though, is easily the TV adaptation of Guyver, which everyone assumed was also an ADV co-production & were surprised when FUNimation wound up with it later on. The simple fact is that ADV was never part of the production for Guyver TV, but rather it was Sojitz, as seen at the very end of the any episode's end credits, which lists everyone that was in the production committee. |
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BigOnAnime
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 1233 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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Chance Pop Session, as to why it didn't get re-released again, my money is more on the show didn't sell well. To this day, RightStuf still has BOTH the 2006 thinpak AND the 2009 complete release, and they're always deeply discounted during the holiday sales. Even the Jinki:Extend thinpak and Michel's complete set sold out quicker, and those two were always deeply discounted and plentiful until a year or two ago when RightStuf's well finally ran dry.
https://www.rightstufanime.com/search?keywords=Chance%20Pop%20Session How many people have even heard of Chance Pop Session, much less seen it, especially at this point? I'm one of the only people that ever saw it (I also own every release, the singles, and both of the complete sets mentioned above). The 2009 Chance Pop Session release still comes with an ADV Films Crunchyroll promo thing that expired November 30, 2009, so that tells you how truly old RightStuf's stock is. I got my 2009 set in December for $5.15. That show will forever remain cheap, especially as it gets even older and more obscure. Samurai Gun is what's more puzzling. That show likely didn't sell well either, but Chance Pop Session is at the very least streaming on HIDIVE and Crunchyroll (yes, CR, and under ADV Films). Why Samurai Gun isn't streaming if ADV should have perpetual rights to it because they were on the production committee and do still exist in some capacity (ADV never actually fully shutdown contrary to popular belief) is beyond me.
animenewsnetwork.com/news/2004-05-11/funimation-licenses-fullmetal-alchemist |
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Covnam
 Posts: 3724 |
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Hmm, I wonder how many more times you'd need to pay for the "too cheap to bother" licenses would cost to actually get a company to find it to be worth the effort... 3x, 5x?
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Lord Geo
Posts: 2573 Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey |
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I actually brought up this whole aspect on Twitter the day this article went live, and Christopher McDonald/Tempest himself said that to solution around this is to license a bunch of similarly "too cheap to bother" titles from the same licensor, making it more appealing a deal to approve. It's like the inverse of the package deal, because it's the potential licensee that's picking the titles to license all at once, rather than the licensor forcing titles onto the licensee. I think this is a common thing that Discotek Media does, as it's been stated by people who work with the company that "Mr. Discotek" will usually make a trip to Japan for licensing from a single licensor (pre-pandemic, at least), and come back with a bunch of fresh new licenses all at once for everyone to work on. Why do you think Discotek always has an admitted backlog of roughly two years worth of releases in the works & waiting? |
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mangamuscle
Posts: 2658 Location: Mexico |
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This is how the AnimeTube kickstarter should have been built. $100,000 USD might get a good deal of obscure 80s & 90s OVAs (that never got a release in DVD let alone blu-ray), the ones where they need a real detective to find who owns what and maybe offer them a communal contract where all the money goes to some charity, dunno, like helping struggling animators. I mean, it is not like the actual owners of those IP are really using said forgotten reels of animation. |
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LastPage 3
Posts: 193 |
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It sounds interesting, but the detective work part sounds like it would be beyond what a fresh startup could handle. |
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Lord Geo
Posts: 2573 Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey |
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Yeah, the more reasonable thing to do with 100 grand is to do what Mike Toole jokingly brought up on Twitter during that whole fiasco: Licensing a bunch of "D-list" anime that had never been licensed before (G-On Riders, Rizelmine, Kokoro Library, etc.), and give them their first ever English releases via streaming. Even as a bit of a joke, it actually makes more sense than what AnimeTube was actually trying to do. |
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Covnam
Posts: 3724 |
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Ah, so as people were thinking earlier that's the only way. Makes sense I suppose. Thanks for the info 
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CheerSong
 Posts: 92 Location: Route 7, Kanto |
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Great article!
As someone who does similar negotiations day in and day out, I do want to suggest a clarification on MG and up-front payment. MG, as you said, is the promise to sell a certain amount during the sales period specified in the contract, but it doesn't necessarily need to be paid (even in part) upfront. In Japan we call this an Advance, and as you mentioned, it is such a common practice to pay up-front these days that MG and Advance are practically interchangeable! (Interchangeable in practice, anyway. You want your contract terms written as clearly as possible.)
As the licensee making the purchase, you'd be best off negotiating to get the titles to cross-recoup against each other...if even one of them hits and nets you revenue, you might clear the MG on that title alone...! And I COMPLETELY understand the "too cheap to bother" distinction. Contracts can be convoluted, communication can take forever...crossing the language and culture barriers can be an ordeal as well. I've definitely negotiated deals worth less than the time I spent bringing them to fruition. |
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10440 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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I'm seeing a lot of questions about the "too cheap to license" topic. Let me try to give a bit more information. First off, this varies very much from licensor to licensor. Some licensors are much more open to discussing anything they have in their catalog, others are more reluctant. Part of this has to do with the time available to the sales staff at the licensor. These sales/licensing departments are very small. Most of the companies I know have 2 sales people, and they each have maybe one assistant. So sometimes they're just really busy working though the details of 6-figure MG per episode deals on simulcasts, that they don't have the time to devote to a $500 MG / episode or rev-share deal on a catalog title. It also depends a lot on the prospective licensee. If they already have a really good relationship with the licensee, then they're more willing to make the time (This is one of several reasons why startups should hire someone who has a history in the industry to handle their acquisitions). Also, if the prospective licensee is a large platform with a history of licensing content (say Viki for example), the licensor will be more willing to do a large multi-title rev-share only deal. If the licensee is a startup, with no history, and they want to license content, the best way is a package deal. Instead of going after one show for $500 MG / episode, they should try to get 20 shows for $250 MG/episode. That's still a pretty small deal for the licensor ($60,000 MG), but it's probably worth the time unless the licensor just has zero time available because they're over worked. All this is assuming materials and rights clearances aren't an additional headache. As I mentioned briefly in the article, finding materials and figuring out who owns the rights for really old titles can sometimes be a massive headache. I'll do another article sometime on just that, it wasn't the main topic of this article. -t |
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Tempest
I Run this place. ANN Publisher Posts: 10440 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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I suspect you don't work in anime licensing to North America, right? Consensus among everyone I talk with is that s MGs are almost never paid upfront on first-run/simulcast anime these day, which is why I avoided using the term "advance" in the brief description of the MG. Licensing professionals do definitely interchange the words quite a lot, but I didn't want the word to mislead the audience. "Advance" is also used in the West quite a lot. Artists, musicians and authors most notably, count on their advance to make ends meet while they complete their projects. Unscrupulous companies often give advances that aren't actually MGs, and have to be paid back if sales don't meet expectations. -t |
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CheerSong
Posts: 92 Location: Route 7, Kanto |
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You're right, I'm anime-adjacent - anime toy licensing! Basically all contracts these days require you to pay the MG advance up-front, whether the licensor or agent is Japanese or located overseas. Totally understand the desire to not mislead the audience! Your article is such a great primer already. I'm sharing this with my friends and family back home...they don't understand the industry at all. PS. Hope you're able to come visit our cool doors in Tokyo sometime soon! [EDIT: Fixed quote attributions ~Zalis] |
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Tempest
I Run this place. ANN Publisher Posts: 10440 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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MGs in anime have been paid over a schedule for a while now, it's nothing new. But as the MGs have gotten larger and larger, it's become even more necessary for the MGs to be paid over time, and for those times to get longer. Licensors would rather get bigger MGs and give their licensees more time to pay them, than a smaller MG paid quicker. Typically, licensee pay their MGs over 2~4 years now. One licensee that pays flat fees pays them out over the lifetime of the license, non-negotiable.
Hope so! I've been paying rent on an apartment I can't use for 18 months now. At least I have a very reasonable rent. |
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