Forum - View topicBiggest Badass Forum Tournament
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AkumaChef
Posts: 821 |
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Reiner's attitude is not lost on me, but I consider him a lot like Sergei (D) from Key the Metal Idol who I nominated but who is not in this bracket. His attitude is more stoic than it is in-your-face machismo, and that's why I expect Sergei/D not to make it very far in the tournament even though I nominated him, and even if it were just me voting. Yeah those characters are both badasses to be sure, but if we're talking about macho auras, swagger, in-your-face badass attitude, there are a lot of other characters whom I would rank higher. Saki Asamiya, my own nomination whom I just voted against, has more of a badass attitude than Reiner does, at least in my personal opinion, though Reiner clearly wins in the physical ability/toughness department.
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Hikari14
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Then either you didn't read my post in its entirety, or what I said is right and my arguments won't sway anybody. Admit it, your opinions are set as are mine, and no outside opinion will sway them. You want honesty? You got it. I joined this tournament to see one of Reiner, Chane or Fisher Tiger win. Now you be honest, do you - and I mean all of you, not specific individuals - really consider Sano more badass or are you just 'riding on the train', so to speak?
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AkumaChef
Posts: 821 |
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Whether or not your arguments are successful in getting people to change their votes on one character has no bearing on other characters. Speaking for myself, I have watched Attack on Titan more than once so I consider myself quite familiar with its characters. And I really do consider Sanoske more badass than Reiner. (Note that I voted before anyone else mentioned their opinion on the vote). But there are plenty of series in this tournament which I haven't seen, or otherwise have minimal experience with, and thus are far more receptive to other people's opinions on. Just because you may not have much luck in getting me to change my vote on Reiner doesn't mean you won't have any success for other titles. I'd hate for you to be discouraged about this particular matchup and not make your case for other characters going forward. Reiner is just one of more than a hundred characters in this tournament, don't let his results affect your votes or arguments for/against other characters too.
For example, I'd honestly love to hear your reasoning for picking Erza Scarlet over Kyoujirou Rengokogu--characters from two series that I know literally nothing about. |
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Tony K.
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 11305 Location: Frisco, TX |
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I don't think it's a case of people not seeing your argument (which you said twice, verbatim, on the same page, and without really expanding on anything). I think it's more so the quality of your argument. It basically says: - Has mental and physical fortitude - Comrades trust him deeply - Has qualities of Marcel - Tried to commit suicide, but didn't (which takes willpower) (^ Sounds like a really bad résumé) - He has fortitude. How? Describe it. Give examples of what he did and how they built his character. - His comrades trust him. Why? What did he do to earn it at that level? - What qualities of Marcel? Who is Marcel? - Why did he try to commit suicide, then change his mind? If you don't give explanations or put any of that into context, then you're not gonna' sway anybody. Short and vague statements are just that: short and vague. Here's what I found on Reiner (in a nutshell): Reiner was sort of an ugly duckling, born of a Marleyan father and Eldian mother, but not really accepted by either side because of the two countries' conflicting relations. He decided to try and become a Warrior to inherit one of the Nine Titans so he and his mother could become honorary Marleyans and be reunited with his father. During his candidacy, he meets the Galliard brothers: Macrcel and Porco. Marcel is friendly, kind, even charismatic. Porco not so much, as he spent much of the time looking down upon and ridiculing Reiner for his lackluster performance as a Warrior. Despite his brother's belittling, Marcel tried to ease the conflict, but also became increasingly worried for this brother's life. He devised a plan to raise Reiner's reputation and lower Porco's in an effort to grant Reiner the power of the Armored Titan, leaving Porco out of harm's way. After Reiner inherits the Armored Titan and Marcel the Jaw Titan, while on a mission, Marcel confesses that Reiner was not originally meant to inherit the Titan power, but that he (Marcel) had done so to save his brother's life. Before they can discuss the matter further, a Titan rises out of the ground reaching for Reiner. Marcel pushes Reiner out of the way and is eaten alive in his stead. Reiner, then, joins the 104th Training Corps to help his Marleyan team further infiltrate Eldian territory for their mission to retake the Founding Titan. Within the Corps, he meets a bevy of fresh-faced trainees, including Eren Yeager. Because of the experience and leadership he already acquired, but unbeknownst to the trainees, Reiner serves as mentor and earns a deep sense of trust and respect from them, even portraying some of Marcel's character qualities with his caring and self-sacrifice, particularly by helping Eren. As their operation progressed, however, Reiner would lead a dual-faced life. On the one side, he was the soldier staying focused on the mission: the successful recovery of the Founding Titan and destruction of the Walls. On the other side, he genuinely cared for people: his comrades from Marley, especially, but also some of his comrades from Eldia. In light of this realization, he later develops a self-hatred and deep amount of guilt over his actions and contemplates suicide. He does not bring himself to do it, however, as his devotion for the mission and those he cares about outweighs his guilt. ---------------------------------- At this point, I see his character arc as being incomplete, so I can't give him my vote. Sure, he's tough, determined, and devoted to his mission and comrades. The big question mark, though, is the two-facing. At first, it was all about the mission, which he seemed dead set on completing. But then he felt guilty about his actions and deceit before anything is even concluded, and he wants to end himself? The wavering composure does not strike me as badass, uncompromising, intimidating, etc. I get that he's traumatized. But so are probably a dozen or so of the other characters in a franchise that has giant humanoids eating people, their friends, and family. Depending on how Reiner ends up, either sacrificing himself for the "greater good" (whatever that turns out to be) or doing something to change the tide of the war in epic fashion, I think he's only half a badass till he figures out his "true" persona and what he really wants in life. Gotta' wait and see how/if he can redeem himself, or if he does anything to atone. His reaction to said guilt and second chance to make things right will make or break his legacy. |
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Hikari14
Posts: 1040 |
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If you're playing 'well, you're basically saying this' game, then I am playing too.
Yeah, well, here is what your argument basically says 'I didn't know about Reiner, so I just voted for Sano in spite of being told to do my research previously, and now that I've done my research, I'll wait for some abstract moment that will happen after this round is over in order to decide whether to change my vote or not.'
You: I will vote for this character just because he can take enormous amounts of punishment. Also you: I will summarily ignore that Reiner can take enormous amounts of punishment too, and vote the other character. |
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Tony K.
Subscriber Moderator Posts: 11305 Location: Frisco, TX |
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Dude, now you're just deflecting because you have no argument. Have you done any research? Do you even know anything about Sanosuke to say that he's not worth a vote? I spent hours reading Wikia pages to research one guy and the lore of his world out of mutual respect for your fandom, presented my findings in semi-story form so others could also read about it, analyzed his character, and concluded that: based on what's there, Reiner doesn't get my vote.
All I see is you getting upset, making excuses to accuse people of not voting for one of your favorite characters, then beating an Armored Dead Horse about powers and abilities. You keep saying he can shrug off attacks and are barely arguing any of his literary attributes. Last edited by Tony K. on Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Hikari14
Posts: 1040 |
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Says someone who ignored my point regarding why I think his attitude is badass. Like, you keep saying you want me to extrapolate on why his attitude is badass, and when I do, you ignore that argument and only quote the parts where I argue his ability to shrug off damage? Yeah, no. Call me when you start quoting the part where I talk about his attitude being badass and/or countering it as well, and then I'll extrapolate more.
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Tony K.
Subscriber Moderator Posts: 11305 Location: Frisco, TX |
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Cool. I guess that settles it.
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Hikari14
Posts: 1040 |
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Here is an answer to some of your questions, by the way.
And also, Reiner isn't even my favorite character from that franchise. Those would be Bertolt and Isabel. I nominated Reiner because I believe he is a badass for both his ability and the way he is perceived by other character. The anime doesn't explain what exactly he did in order to become a 'brother figure to them, but he had to have done something, even if we fans don't know what it was. Plus, as the video above shows, he gave a good advice to Eren. And also, he was number 2 among the top ten, only overshadowed by a girl with otherworldly abilities. That proves he can be strong without relying on his powers like you seem to be implying in your analysis of him. And you even admitted you got your information from wikia rather than watching anime. Sure, I can do as you did and research on Sano using wikia, but would that give me the same information I'd have obtained by watching anime in question? Of course not. Wikia isn't a reliable source of information. And now, of course, you'll ignore the main point of my argument and only quote parts that fit your narrative. Here's what my in-character persona has to say about that: 
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AkumaChef
Posts: 821 |
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Perhaps I did a bad job explaining the reasoning for my votes but I'll try again. I did mention physical toughness for both characters, but it was not a deciding factor for either of them. In the case of Claire Stanfield vs. Umibozu it really boils down to one simple fact: I don't consider Claire a badass at all. I don't get a "Badass" vibe from him, I get a "Psycho Killer" vibe instead. That is 95% of why I voted Umibozu over Claire. The fact that Umibozu is tough and has cool weapons, etc, is icing on the cake but it's not why I voted for him. I suspect I'd have voted for nearly any other character in the tournament over Claire because I just don't see Claire as a badass. Now when I look at Reiner vs. Sanosuke: Yes, Reiner is incredibly strong and tough, that's not lost on me. But the same can be said for Sansoskue as he is incredibly strong and tough as well. He's smashed boulders to pieces with his fists. He can split trees with punches and kicks, he can send men twice his size flying with merely a flick of his index finger. He's strong enough to wield an absolutely massive sword along the lines of Guts or Cloud Strife: 
He's strong enough to use the sword to deflect cannonballs as though it were a baseball game. And has for his toughness, I'm going to quote the Kenshin Fandom wiki here:
So I'd say that both of these men seem pretty solid in the toughness department. But toughness and power are only part of the equation. I consider attitude to be more important than combat ability or physical toughness. Sansoske has machismo and swagger to a degree which Reiner doesn't. Even if he weren't anywhere close to as tough as Reiner I would still give him the vote for that reason. |
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Hikari14
Posts: 1040 |
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And again, my post extrapolating why Reiner's attitude is badass gets ignored, as I knew it would be.
Next time, don't ask me to extrapolate if you're just gonna ignore whatever I say anyway. It's a waste of time and effort for both parties... 
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Beltane70
 Posts: 3896 |
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Though I'm loathe to admit it, I'm lazy and will probably wait until the second round for posting the justifications for my choices.
A1 Claire Stanfield vs. A34 Umibozu A2 Balalaika vs. A33 Saki Asamiya A3 "D" (Vampire Hunter D) vs.A32 Tsunayoshi Sawada A4 Balsa vs. A31 Busujima A5 Riza Hawkeye vs. A30 Satoru Gojo A6 Re-L Mayer vs. A29 Shino Kuribayashi A7 Guts vs. A28 Dio Brando A8 Lancer (Cú Chulainn) vs. A27 Gabimaru Rikiya A9 Alita vs. A26 Moutoku Sousou A10 Broly vs. A25 Cobra A11 Alucard vs. A24 Ains Ooal Gown A12 Leon McNichols vs. A23 Bang (Silver Fang) A13 Terry Bogard vs. A22 Isaac Netero A14 Jubei Kibagami vs. A21 Kisuke Urahara A15 Kyojuro Rengoku vs. A20 Erza Scarlet A16 Itachi Uchiha vs. A19 Eikichi Onizuka A17 Reiner Braun vs. A18 Sanosuke Sagara |
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AkumaChef
Posts: 821 |
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I edited my earlier post to include my vote for Lancer vs. Gabimaru.
I'm still researching Kyoujuro vs. Erza. Obviously it would be best if I took the time to watch both series in their entirety but I don't really have the time to do that right now. Online research, wikis, etc, may not be as good as having watched the shows all the way through but they're certainly better than nothing. I will make a further edit for that final vote in the next couple of days.
It wasn't ignored, I just happen to consider a brash in-your-face sort of attitude as more badass compared to the stoic type. That's what I tried to explain in my post above where I mentioned Sergei. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16939 |
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Alright Hikari14 you need to relax and stop with your entirely unwarranted passive aggressive and rude attitude. I am speaking not just as the person running this tournament, but as a moderator now. I have been patient up til now, but I have had to give you a few gentle nudges already to relax during the nomination process. You are taking this entire tournament far too seriously and getting far too worked up over it.
You need to understand a few things. First and foremost reasonings for votes will be required later as has been the case in all of these tournaments. So if you have an attitude and decide to not give those arguments once they are required your votes will not be counted at that point. That is the same for all users, as his always been the case in these tournaments. Secondly, just because you provide reasonings for your choices does not mean others are required to change their votes. The arguments for a character may sway votes, they may not. That is entirely up to the other users. The arguments for a vote are two fold. To make sure this is not just some thread of multiple lists posts with no substance, and because they can make a difference in votes. Despite what you keep saying about how they are pointless they do make a difference and I have said this numerous times already. I suggest you go look through older tournaments if you still doubt this. Or consider what I have already said twice that I was changing my own vote for Bang due to the arguments for Leon. So yes they do have a point, but that doesn't mean they will always guarantee someone changes their vote. Insulting users saying they "obviously are not reading your posts" and being extremely rude and passive aggressive will not be tolerated. I suggest you stop it now. Users asked for more of a justification from you because you are the largest support of Reiner thus far. Yet you have honestly said mostly the same points which are more in line with his powers and abilities, not his attitude and other characteristics that they were asking about. Getting upset with them for wanting to know more is not helpful. Nobody wants the fun and enjoyment of this to be sucked out by rude bickering or attitudes. So I am going to say again you need to relax and calm down. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar Posts: 16939 |
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I wanted to wait a bit before posting my own votes. There were a few I was conflicted on and wanted to see what others might have to say first. Here are my votes however for this round.
Bracket A - Round 1 A1 Claire Stanfield vs. A34 Umibozu - While I do think part of Claire's attitude and persona is that of a psychopath (much as Umibozu's is partially that of just a soldier) I do think he has his badass moments. I would say he more equal to Umibozu, but I do think he has a slight nudge over him in the baddass department. A2 Balalaika vs. A33 Saki Asamiya - Sorry but Balalaika is basically a queen of badass. Yes she's quite capable within the series and it's various gun slinging characters, but she truly has a badass mentality and attitude to her. She takes no nonsense, is beyond loyal to her comrades, and wades into battle at the front right with them. A3 "D" (Vampire Hunter D) vs.A32 Tsunayoshi Sawada - I think "D" falls into the rare category of quiet badass. He is beyond competent and uses his strength to accomplish his contracts. I see him as having a cold and straight forward badass demeanor. It's the combination of his powers, tenacity, and that silent drive to protect innocents. A4 Balsa vs. A31 Busujima - This was tough for me. I think both have roughly equal badass fighting capabilities, but when you factor in the attitude and swagger and how they go about their business I simply think Busujima has the edge over Balsa. Which sucks as I love Balsa as a character, but I just think she comes up short here. A5 Riza Hawkeye vs. A30 Satoru Gojo - Given the arguments and opinions presented on Gojo, and video footage, I am changing my vote to Gojo from Riza. Narrowly. A6 Re-L Mayer vs. A29 Shino Kuribayashi - A close call but I think Re-L has the upper hand slightly here. A7 Guts vs. A28 Dio Brando - This is honestly a tough matchup right out the gate. I expected Dio to make it at least until round 2 as he does have a lot of badass swagger to go with his sociopathic tendencies. But he's up against a man whose name is literally compared to being badass by having guts. Plus slicing off your own hand/arm to go after your former best friend....I mean damn. Sorry Dio, early exit for you. A8 Lancer (Cú Chulainn) vs. A27 Gabimaru Rikiya - This lancer is actually the strongest character from Fate/Stay nominated in my mind for this theme. He's powerful but beyond that he has a lot of snarky swagger. He doesn't back down from a fight (even if he has no choice per se being a servant) and even defies his master later on. He has attitude in spades. A9 Alita vs. A26 Moutoku Sousou - Another tough one. I think in terms of raw power Alita has him beat when she's at full capabilities. I also like her more. But this isn't just about power or capabilities. I think Alita has badass moments, where as Moutoku is more naturally a badass. It's more of his innate personality, especially when his dragon awakens. A10 Broly vs. A25 Cobra - In terms of raw power Broly is upper tier, but in terms of real badass attitude Cobra has him beat in spades. He is cocky, arrogant, capable, and just oozes swagger. Broly oozes mental instability. A11 Alucard vs. A24 Ains Ooal Gown - I think Ains does have a decent amount of badass in him. Especially as the seasons progress and he lets out more of his personality. That being said Alucard lets his badass personality shine from the first moment we see him. He's cocky, arrogant, and mocks his opponents. He has the power to back it up though. Plus common, we got another "I wear my sunglasses at night" member here lol. A12 Leon McNichols vs. A23 Bang (Silver Fang) - I honestly was gonna vote for Bang initially. Arguments from others though have swayed me. I think Bang is more badass then some might be giving him credit for, and not just powerful or some wise sage character. I think how he approaches fights and many of the situations does show a badass mentality to him. However, Leon laughs at that as he puts his sunglasses on. I think what seals it for me is the lack of powers Leon has, but yet he still has that cocky machismo and goes right into a situation and does his job. And with style. SO he narrowly gets my vote. A13 Terry Bogard vs. A22 Isaac Netero - I gotta give it to Netero in this one. He has that same quiet and efficient badass attitude that Bang has. And even more power to back it up as we see later on. He has the confidence that comes with knowing you're powerful and can kick major ass. Now Terry indeed has confidence in his abilities and kicks major ass. When it comes to the swagger and how they approach situations though I think Terry comes up a bit short. He's not as bland as many good guy MC's with powers tend to be, but I think Netero still wins this one. A14 Jubei Kibagami vs. A21 Kisuke Urahara - Battle of the blade masters here. I'm honestly torn on this one. I think though I'll listen to the arguments and thoughts on others thus far, and from the nomination thread, and give my vote to Jubei. I think Kisuke is just a bit too reserved. Or at least doesn't let the badass side as much as Jubei does. A15 Kyojuro Rengoku vs. A20 Erza Scarlet - I gotta give this to Ezra hands down. Yea she's very powerful and she never gives up, but it's much more than that for me. It's about what she has been through. She's been through things that would break most other people. She she came out stronger for it. Her dedication and persistence coupled with her skills and willingness to always fight for the weak elevate her badass quotient in this match for me. A16 Itachi Uchiha vs. A19 Eikichi Onizuka - Another prime example of a powerful character up against one that they could wipe the floor with in terms of skills, but can't hold a candle to the other person's pure swagger and attitude. Onizuka constantly reminds others he's a badass, but also never gives up on his students. He's the epitome of the classic gen x badass archetype. A17 Reiner Braun vs. A18 Sanosuke Sagara - While I do think Reiner is one of the more badass members from the show, and of the titans, I think this is simply a case of being outclassed by his opponent. I think Sanosuke lets his badass side out more often and lives by it. It's not just something he does when needed, it's a way of life for him in a sense. It's all about a good fair fight and giving it your all. He jumps right into any situation even if he's outclassed and knows it. So while Reiner definitely has his moments for me they are just that, moments. Where as with Sano it's constant. So if both characters have roughly equal badass personas I gotta give it to the one who lets it out more often, and lets it shine more regularly. edit: Changed a vote Last edited by Redbeard 101 on Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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