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sirkoala13 wrote:

Getting excited about this series. What I'm wondering about now is what the next generation Zuko or Sokka will be like, not that thew characters have to be limited to being just newer looking cutouts of the one from the first series. Btw, I think there was another season after Fire, but I can't remember the name. Anyone know what it's called or where to get it?

Season after Fire? No, Fire was the third and final season of the tv series. The first was Water and ended with the attack on the Northern Water Tribe; the second was Earth and ended with the take-over of Ba Sing Se; and the third was Fire, which was the final battle with the Fire Lord.

They had those chibi goofball mini-episodes, but that wasn't a season.

I vaguely remember there was some talk, very early on, that it would be 4 books but that was soon dropped. However, that was definitely hearsay so I dunno how much stock I can put in that even.

Agent355 wrote:

In other news: Bryke annouced @ CCSD that Korra will be a mini series lasting only 12 eps. As an anime fan, I know that good things can come in small packages (Baccano!), but as an Avatar fan, I loved the filler!!! Would you believe me if I told you that "The Beach" and "The Headband" are two of my favorite episodes?

I'm a little disappointed Korra will be more of an OVA than full series, but any new Avatar should be good Avatar.

I, too, enjoyed the fillers. Two of my favorite episodes were Tales of Ba Sing Se and The Cave of the Two Lovers. Tales was great, especially Iroh's Tale. So heart-wrenching, first when spoiler[Iroh lights the incense and sings for Lu Ten, his voice catching in the middle of the song.] If you didn't get choked up there, I doubt you have a soul. Next, when spoiler[they did the tribute to Mako at the end, and you realize this was his last performance. Mako was one of my favorite character actors.] Cave was a fun story, and it had one of the best twist endings in the entire series.

@Sea Lion: I always feel like I might cry during Iroh's story in "The Tales of Ba Sing Se." I also love Zuko's date, Sokka's Haiku-Slam, and Katara and Toph's story is one of the few moments in the show that those two actually get along! (I hate it when they fight! Sad

)

The Legend of Korra is going to be condensed awesome. I know it's a bit early to speculate, but I have a wishlist for the series:
1.I really want to see the rebuilt Southern Water Tribe! In A;TLA, Master Pakku said he went with a group of Northern Tribe members to help rebuild the Southern Tribe, and I've wondered how that effort shaped up ever since.

2. If Katara's still alive, I want to see her in Gran-Gran's role! Smile

3. The history of Republic City should be interesting; I know most people are looking forward to the steampunk, but I'm interested in the social aspect. In a melting pot Avatar-World city, will we see kids who look, dress and identify watertribe earthbending due to an earth kingdom grandparent? Will there be ghettos, "Fire Nation Town,"chi-blocking non-benders? It's all cool!

4. It will make my Tokka-lovin' heart happy if Toph & Sokka built the city together (his engineering skillz + her metalbending skillz?) And/or they are currently still hanging out there together. Most comedy-lovin' couple EVAR!!! Laughing

willag wrote:

sirkoala13 wrote:

Getting excited about this series. What I'm wondering about now is what the next generation Zuko or Sokka will be like, not that thew characters have to be limited to being just newer looking cutouts of the one from the first series. Btw, I think there was another season after Fire, but I can't remember the name. Anyone know what it's called or where to get it?

Season after Fire? No, Fire was the third and final season of the tv series. The first was Water and ended with the attack on the Northern Water Tribe; the second was Earth and ended with the take-over of Ba Sing Se; and the third was Fire, which was the final battle with the Fire Lord.

They had those chibi goofball mini-episodes, but that wasn't a season.

You know, if you think about it, you might consider Legend of Korra to be Book 4: Air. Korra's a waterbender. That means that, following the avatar cycle (water, earth, fire, air) she's already mastered the first three elements if she's going to Tenzin to learn airbending. So the last element for her to learn is the one element that didn't have a season book title in the original series.

The shorter length is upsetting, but considering what I said about the story concept earlier (that it sounds like a super hero cartoon), it might be a good decision. It should at least keep monster-of-the-week episodes at bay.

All I ask is that they finally give us closure on what happened to spoiler[Zuko's mother].

@Shamisen the Great: yeah, I hope they have time for that. Heck, if they decide to do it with a graphic novel or an extra animated short DVD extra, I'll be happy with that, too.

IGN posted up some notes from an interview with the creators. It's hard to post a link from my Blackberry right now, but I'll try to summarize the main points:

1. The Cabbage Merchant won't actually be in the new show, but he'll be there "in spirit"

2. Aang will show up in his own way

3. There will likely be some romance

4. The actual subject matter won't be darker than the original, but it will be dark and different--no war.

There is more on the IGN site. I'm tickled pink that someone asked about the cabbage guy! Smile

Agent355 wrote:

1. The Cabbage Merchant won't actually be in the new show, but he'll be there "in spirit"

I can't even remember him appearing again after mid-way through season two.

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2. Aang will show up in his own way

Pretty much expected. Hope we get to see what happened to the characters after the first series ended.

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3. There will likely be some romance

Romance in a T.V. series? That never happens!

Agent355 wrote:

@Shamisen the Great: yeah, I hope they have time for that. Heck, if they decide to do it with a graphic novel or an extra animated short DVD extra, I'll be happy with that, too.

IGN posted up some notes from an interview with the creators. It's hard to post a link from my Blackberry right now, but I'll try to summarize the main points:

1. The Cabbage Merchant won't actually be in the new show, but he'll be there "in spirit"

2. Aang will show up in his own way

3. There will likely be some romance

4. The actual subject matter won't be darker than the original, but it will be dark and different--no war.

There is more on the IGN site. I'm tickled pink that someone asked about the cabbage guy! Smile

What I want to know is whether the Foaming Mouth Guy or his descendants will be there. Also, count on Aang showing up as a spirit guide, similar to Roku. I wonder who they'll get to voice Old Man Aang.

For anyone thinking Korra and Tenzin would be the couple, consider this: If Korra is a teenager, as it appears she is, and Tenzin is Aang's son, Tenzin would have to be at least in his 30s during the series. That would be creepy (especially for a Nickelodeon show), and for Tenzin, it would be a little like he's dating his father, since Avatars are apparently slightly like Trill from Star Trek (i.e. each individual has his or her own mind, but is also joined to the Avatar Spirit, thus sharing the memories of all the previous Avatars).

@Veoryn 87--yeah, I think "Tales of Ba Sing Se" has the last appearance of the cabbage guy. Now, if foaming mouth guy or sparky sparky boom man showed up, that'd be amazing! Wink

Why do they have to force romance into the show? They seem to love trolling shippers while they push canon ships down the audience's throught. I could've lived with a lot less "Maiko making out" scenes and "let's give Zutara fans false hope!" scenes.

The only relationship they built slowly and naturally (imho--don't flame me!) is Aang/Katara. You can tell Aang has a crush on Katara from episode one, and that slowly builds into love as his respect and admiration for her grow through their time together.
On Katara's side, she understandibly doesn't notice Aang's feeling (he's 2 years younger than her) and only starts to respond mid-season 2, then things continue slowly through the next season and a half till it caps off all canonlically at the finale's end.

Everyone else spend very little time together or one partner's personality isn't fleshed out. (How much do we know about Suki?)

And the Zutarian vs. Kataang battles continue on the internets...thus is the nature of 'shiipping', I guess. It'd be nice to avoid that kind of disagreement again.

Back when everyone thought the show was only 12 episodes, I had hopes it might actually be good since it would be more focused on a goal than the first series. But if that was false, it'll probably just be like a first series; tons of filler with them forgetting to develop the characters and give closure to everything. The first series did nothing for me. The writing was simplistic, the characters were annoying shallow cut-outs, and the fights were just boring because of censorship and just poor choreography. Not to mention the whole show just oozed being kiddy fodder (the dialog was mind-numbingly awful at times, as well as the fact despite there was a war we never see any blood or people getting seriously hurt much.. or even throw a single punch.) They'll have to do something impressive to make me give this a shot.

Maybe the next next Avatar series will be worth watching? ( Rolling Eyes

And there probably will be one too. Shame they seemed to be pigeon holed into Avatar and can't make anything else, but that's American television for you; milk these franchises until they're dead. I'd rather see them do something else entirely different outside Avatar, but I guess that won't happen any time soon.)

@TitanXL: Did you like anything about Avatar:TLA? Based on your post, you seem to expect good things from the creators, but you don't seem to have liked the first series at all, so why do you want them to make different shows?

It's been confirmed in more than one interview that Legend of Korra will only be 12 episodes.

If you found Avatar's fight choreagraphy lacking, what fights in animation are well done, in your opinion?

While filler existed in the first series, I'm going to have to disagree that there was "tons" of it and that little character development happened. Each episode added something to the characters, and even if not much it was still fun to watch. I find that Avatar's fillers are much higher quality than most shonen anime. I will make exceptions with The Great Divide in season one, Tales of Ba Sing Se in season two, and .The Painted Lady in season three. I felt that those were either superfluous or just not very entertaining.

As for censorship, it certainly can be a bit vexing with large scale battles, but I never found the issue of censorship to be a big deal during small-scale fight scenes like ones between two people or between small groups. Avatar not showing any violent content that you'd expect in war probably gives it a less realistic feel, but the urgency of the situation and the fact that people's lives are being taken or destroyed by the war isn't a fact they hide in the series. In fact, I like the way Avatar doesn't show it. It doesn't need to show, it gives us hints and we use our imagination to put together the rest, which in some ways can be more terrible. Many anime tend to overdo it with their violent content to the point where it seems like they're just doing it for shock value or for the sake of coolness. Avatar at least avoids that problem.[/b]

Everyone is interested to see the cabbage merchant and combustion man again, but I'm more interested to see if the Fire Nation has retained its odd fascination with puns.

Agent355 wrote:

@TitanXL: Did you like anything about Avatar:TLA? Based on your post, you seem to expect good things from the creators, but you don't seem to have liked the first series at all, so why do you want them to make different shows?

I think the creators have their heart in the right place (one of the few American producers who think animation can tell an actual story and not just slapstick comedy like mentioned before) I didn't like their execution of A:TLA, I think anything connected to it will have some sort of.. obligation to make it similar; the setting, the world, the characters, and so forth. Perhaps if they get away from the Avatar mythos, they can make something more enjoyable for me. For example, Togashi wrote Yu Yu Hakusho, Level E, and Hunter x Hunter. I like Yu Yu Hakusho, but didn't enjoy the other two as much. If Hunter x Hunter came first and they just made Hunter x Hunter 2: Gon's Son's Adventures instead of Yu Yu Hakusho, then I wouldn't like it much I'm guessing. The Avatar world just didn't grab me much, it just felt like another typical stereotypical Asian world that a lot of these animes-wannabes try to create.

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If you found Avatar's fight choreagraphy lacking, what fights in animation are well done, in your opinion?

I was quite fond of Soul Eater's fights, and Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood also had some good ones; just to name some recent series. My main problem was, well, yes, they did have martial artists come in to show them what poses and moves to do, but that's exactly what you get; characters doing various martial arts move by themselves, then when they're done, a stream of fire or air shoot out of their fist/leg at the enemy. It's usually dodged and then the opponent does the same and repeat until the fight gets broken up due to plot. Combat rarely, if ever, ended with someone being hurt, let alone killed like you expect it to. The skirmishes just felt like time wasters to pad an episode until the 22 minute mark so they could wrap the episode's plot up. I never felt these characters would die during fights, or even really get hurt, which meant there was no drama in them. What I liked in those two anime,and most others, is can get hurt. I think the final fight against Wrath in Brotherhood is gorgeous.

spoiler[Fu and Buccaneer had to give up their lives just to inflict one wound on Wrath, which slowed him down enough for the likes of Greed, Lan Fan, Scar, and some soldiers to actually finish the job. There was a genuine struggle there, that Wrath was such a dangerous and strong opponent, that I never felt with any of the fights in Avatar. I also loved the one where Lan Fan cut off her own arm to save Ling and lure Wrath away from them, and she was in a bed for most of the series and lamenting and getting angry over being useless.]

It's not so much violence for the sake of violence, just that it's about war. People die. People get hurt. We need to face these realizations and the effects they have on people, not try to sugar-coat it or avoid it. Instances like that do it well. The most we ever got in Avatar was 'Earthbenders being forced to mine in a prison' or 'Waterbenders being held captive for 50 years' which, while I guess is bad, isn't really the same thing. All the bad stuff like death in Avatar happened either off screen or before the series even began.

Veoryn87 wrote:

While filler existed in the first series, I'm going to have to disagree that there was "tons" of it and that little character development happened. Each episode added something to the characters, and even if not much it was still fun to watch. I find that Avatar's fillers are much higher quality than most shonen anime. I will make exceptions with The Great Divide in season one, Tales of Ba Sing Se in season two, and .The Painted Lady in season three. I felt that those were either superfluous or just not very entertaining.

The problem with 'adding to the characters' is it's all subjective. It may give us a new insight on them, but if it's never brought up again then it's entirely pointless. It's a problem with most American shows (I like to call it 'flaw of the day' that a character learns they have then overcomes by the end of the epiode) I see people claim episodes like 'Sokka's Master' is great character development, but I just see them giving him a sword and then he never gets to use it (why give a character a sword in a kid's show? They can't use it unless it's on robots or something) Sokka never had his own rival to overcome, or any kind of character goal. I found that episode pointless. Still, at least he got that while Toph pretty much got nothing in the third season outside the one episode she sends a letter home (how the hawk finds its way there eludes me) and that's it; no resolution or anything for her. I found the third season in general to just be filled with pointless episodes (mainly before the invasion, like going to school or the beach) People say the beach is 'character development' but for what? One line from Ty Lee and Mai about their childhoods? That's forced exposition, not character development. If it were an anime, we'd probably see that all throughout the show and have it develop naturally, not just have them say a line around a campfire. Mai and Ty Lee had nothing in the second season and were just obstacles for the hero to beat down every episode; it's like once they got to The Beach they realized they never gave them any development so they had them read a quick biography around the campfire to remedy it. While the writers may have had ideas for these characters the execution just came off really forced and poor for me.

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As for censorship, it certainly can be a bit vexing with large scale battles, but I never found the issue of censorship to be a big deal during small-scale fight scenes like ones between two people or between small groups. Avatar not showing any violent content that you'd expect in war probably gives it a less realistic feel, but the urgency of the situation and the fact that people's lives are being taken or destroyed by the war isn't a fact they hide in the series. In fact, I like the way Avatar doesn't show it. It doesn't need to show, it gives us hints and we use our imagination to put together the rest, which in some ways can be more terrible. Many anime tend to overdo it with their violent content to the point where it seems like they're just doing it for shock value or for the sake of coolness. Avatar at least avoids that problem.

See, I detest speculation and find it to be a cop-out. People who make wild theories how their prisoners of war were tortured or raped or something when there's no evidence to support it. To me, that just says they want that stuff in the show, and have to insert it via their imagination since the show itself doesn't do it. Same way I feel about shipping' people do it because the show doesn't develop romance so they make it up themselves. I like romance but I don't care enough to make crazy theories about it; if the show doesn't want to do it then I don't either. It just felt the show went so much out of it's way to establish things were okay (look at that complicated device they had to build to feed waterbenders water in the Hama episode; when it would have been so much easier to just kill them and be done with it.)

Speaking of which, I found that episode was mostly pointless as well. Katara only used Bloodbending in one other episode and it didn't even need to be in that episode to be honest and added nothing to it; if she used it to take down Azula or someone, then I could see it having more merit in it's introduction. I just don't like the third season in general, it felt like they kept introducing things when they should have been wrapping things up instead.

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