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REVIEW: Freezing BD+DVD


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zensunni



Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Posts: 1294
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:04 pm Reply with quote
Tuor_of_Gondolin wrote:
Megiddo wrote:
I wouldn't say that I was outright enjoying Freezing during the first episode, but with about 5 minutes left I was thinking that I would definitely give it the benefit of the doubt with the three episode test.

Then in those last 5 minutes of the first episode the show goes off the deep end with the bland male protagonist stumbling into Satelizer and then groping her, causing the up-to-then brash and violent Satelizer to blush and moan a little. Needless I say I couldn't click the 'X' button in my media player fast enough and never bothered with any of the rest of the series. Up until that point it was a decent show, but then it just had to shoot itself in the foot.

There are two reasons why I dropped this show before the end of the first episode. The above is the second and main reason, which exactly echoes what I thought and how I felt.

But the first reason is the cruelty that the writer seems to enjoy inflicting on women. Other instances of this that I've come across are 'Master of Martial Hearts' and 'Kurokame: the Animation'.

I contrast the three of these series with the case of Videl in DBZ. Videl enters the World Martial Arts Tournament and ends up getting the everliving crap beat out of her by Spopovich. No one in the audience thought the cruelty showed by Spopovich was acceptable, none of the Z fighters did, either. I never got the impression that the writer enjoyed writing the scene.

The lavish brutality shown in the first episode of Freezing, OTOH, was not just considered acceptable, but was intentionally set-up and was part of "training" for those involved. I didn't buy it. Training? Really? Training -- particularly military training -- is supposed to both improve individuals *and* improve teamwork within the group and organization. I saw none of that, just an excuse to show young women either in pain or sadistically administering it. Not my idea of entertainment.

But, as with Meggido, I was still on-board, mainly because I liked Bridget. But then they assassinated her character with that moron male lead, and after that, I couldn't drop the series fast enough. I guess there are people who like this sort of thing, but I'm definitely not one of them.

So neither of you bothered to stay and watch anywhere near long enough to find out that there was actually an extremely good and logical reason that Satellizer responded to the "moron male lead" the way she did. Sometimes stories, even ones that are mostly about boobs and violence, have a few layers that take a bit of time to figure out. Sometimes it takes multiple episodes, perhaps even an entire season, to find out why a character behaved the way they did in the first episode. That generally makes the story better, not worse. I remember everyone flipping out when Freezing first aired, saying that the last 5 minutes of the first episode totally destroyed the character of Satellizer as she had been built up in the episode and ruined the show for them. I thought that was a stupid complaint then, too. Instead of thinking, "Well, they tossed that in just for stupid fan-service reasons and it totally destroys the character and ruins the story", my thought process was more along the lines of "Why is it that the 'untouchable' queen is able to be touched by this guy? Is there something special about him? Or maybe about the two of them together? Hmmm... Intriguing use of a cliche moment to add a little plot twist. I wonder how it will be explained..."

The explanation didn't disappoint me. It is also the explanation of why Satellizer is so freakin' strong compared to the other Pandoras.
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 18270
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:09 pm Reply with quote
Tuor_of_Gondolin wrote:
The lavish brutality shown in the first episode of Freezing, OTOH, was not just considered acceptable, but was intentionally set-up and was part of "training" for those involved. I didn't buy it. Training? Really? Training -- particularly military training -- is supposed to both improve individuals *and* improve teamwork within the group and organization. I saw none of that, just an excuse to show young women either in pain or sadistically administering it. Not my idea of entertainment.

This (and some other things that happened later) is exactly what I was referring to with my "mean-spirited" comments. I found enough other content in the series to be worthwhile and/or appealingly prurient enough to keep my interest, but I can certainly understand why others wouldn't.
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Yttrbio



Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 3655
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:11 pm Reply with quote
zensunni wrote:
So neither of you bothered to stay and watch anywhere near long enough to find out that there was actually an extremely good and logical reason that Satellizer responded to the "moron male lead" the way she did. Sometimes stories, even ones that are mostly about boobs and violence, have a few layers that take a bit of time to figure out. Sometimes it takes multiple episodes, perhaps even an entire season, to find out why a character behaved the way they did in the first episode. That generally makes the story better, not worse. I remember everyone flipping out when Freezing first aired, saying that the last 5 minutes of the first episode totally destroyed the character of Satellizer as she had been built up in the episode and ruined the show for them. I thought that was a stupid complaint then, too. Instead of thinking, "Well, they tossed that in just for stupid fan-service reasons and it totally destroys the character and ruins the story", my thought process was more along the lines of "Why is it that the 'untouchable' queen is able to be touched by this guy? Is there something special about him? Or maybe about the two of them together? Hmmm... Intriguing use of a cliche moment to add a little plot twist. I wonder how it will be explained..."

The explanation didn't disappoint me. It is also the explanation of why Satellizer is so freakin' strong compared to the other Pandoras.
The actual reason why she behaves the way she does is because she was written that way. The plot reason for it also exists because it was written that way. The fact that the plot was written to explain her behavior doesn't really change anything.

I watched the whole thing, and those five minutes didn't become any less stupid for it, because someone decided they wanted those events to occur.
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Yttrbio



Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 3655
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:28 pm Reply with quote
... Okay?

Do you go to critics of the politics behind Atlas Shrugged and say "Well, you know, in the context of the book, their behavior works out, and makes sense, so it's really silly to criticize the political viewpoint being presented"?

At an early stage of the writing process for Freezing, someone said "I want to present high school girls gratuitously suffering, but also want to have a cutesy awkward romance that follows all the genre rules" and wrote accordingly. There's no way around that, and criticisms along those lines aren't in any way blunted by pointing out how the plot justifies it. It doesn't invalidate the entire medium of fiction writing to accept that this is a perfectly reasonable way people are going to respond to it.
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modell



Joined: 04 Sep 2012
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:01 pm Reply with quote
Very nice and thoughtful review Theron. I hope you draw the straw for the Qwaser reviews and if anyone ever licenses it, Manyuu Hikenchou.
I want Funi to license Manyuu, just to see what terrible ad campaign they would come up with.
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getchman
He started it



Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 9127
Location: Bedford, NH
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:56 pm Reply with quote
modell wrote:
Very nice and thoughtful review Theron. I hope you draw the straw for the Qwaser reviews and if anyone ever licenses it, Manyuu Hikenchou.
I want Funi to license Manyuu, just to see what terrible ad campaign they would come up with.


that would be a horrible idea
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notazaku



Joined: 21 Apr 2012
Posts: 135
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:50 pm Reply with quote
I don’t know how the last five minutes of the first episode could have destroyed Satellizer’s character when at that point her character had barely been established. All we know about her at that point is that she is this merciless bad ass who no one can touch. The last five minutes don’t negate that. So she can be vulnerable too. That just expands her character. Granted that’s not the most original characterization to date but it hardly ruins her character especially since we hardly know anything about her at that point.
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Touma



Joined: 29 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:05 pm Reply with quote
Yttrbio wrote:
The actual reason why she behaves the way she does is because she was written that way. The plot reason for it also exists because it was written that way.

Yes, but that is true of all fiction. It is the way that it is because that is the way that it was written.
Quote:
The fact that the plot was written to explain her behavior doesn't really change anything.

I watched the whole thing, and those five minutes didn't become any less stupid for it, because someone decided they wanted those events to occur.


Yttrbio wrote:

Do you go to critics of the politics behind Atlas Shrugged and say "Well, you know, in the context of the book, their behavior works out, and makes sense, so it's really silly to criticize the political viewpoint being presented"?

But you, and the people referred to in the post that you responded to, were not criticizing politics or anything that exists in the real world outside of the story. You were saying that something that happened in the story did not make sense in the context of the story, at least that is how it seemed to me.

Quote:
At an early stage of the writing process for Freezing, someone said "I want to present high school girls gratuitously suffering, but also want to have a cutesy awkward romance that follows all the genre rules" and wrote accordingly. There's no way around that, and criticisms along those lines aren't in any way blunted by pointing out how the plot justifies it.

If the criticism is that the actions of a character are not justified then having the story justify the actions does blunt the criticism.
The justification may have been done after the fact, because the author realized that there was a problem that needed to be fixed, but that is always a possibility and it is something that cannot be known without getting inside the mind of the author.
The real test is whether or not the justification satisfies the viewers. In this case it did satisfy some but not others. That seems to be normal in fiction.
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Yttrbio



Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 3655
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:11 pm Reply with quote
Touma wrote:
If the criticism is that the actions of a character are not justified then having the story justify the actions does blunt the criticism.
Yes, but that's not the criticism.
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5088
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:26 pm Reply with quote
Yttrbio wrote:
Touma wrote:
If the criticism is that the actions of a character are not justified then having the story justify the actions does blunt the criticism.
Yes, but that's not the criticism.


So you don't like the reason?

Freezing has all sorts of issues, but it did do a very good job of giving a reason for why Satellizer really, REALLY does not like to be touched.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 8360
Location: IL
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:29 pm Reply with quote
Except on her breasts, which when groped she gets all blushy and moans out loud.

Yep, that's someone who doesn't like to be touched alright.
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Stark700



Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Posts: 11762
Location: Earth
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:30 pm Reply with quote
I'm actually a fan of Lim Dall-young and enjoy his works. Yea, the artwork was definitely generic there so I'm a bit surprised at the art score. For some reason though, I thought the soundtrack of the series was the best part. Other than that, it was just an alright series with the story getting better in the latter half.

Might give the dub a shot as well. Maybe.


Last edited by Stark700 on Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5088
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:32 pm Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:
Except on her breasts, which when groped she gets all blushy and moans out loud.

Yep, that's someone who doesn't like to be touched alright.


Like I said, all sorts of issues.
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Shippoyasha



Joined: 28 Aug 2007
Posts: 459
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:46 pm Reply with quote
I love this show for what it was. Yeah, there was a lot of mean spirited girls and flat out bullies, but it made the combat a tad more plausible. The new chapters of the manga is great. I am hoping for season 2.
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Shippoyasha



Joined: 28 Aug 2007
Posts: 459
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:58 pm Reply with quote
Speaking of the cruelty issue, the difference with Freezing is that the girls are superpowered, full stop. Of course, part of the reason is to have scantily clad girls fight eachother. But making up that motif means the show is no longer making any ties with reality. It is a fanservice/action show and there are some truly gruesome shows out there considering they are fairly realistic enough to make all the injustice and violence pack an extra punch. Stuff like Shigurui and Rainbow were quite a bit more disturbing for me.

I don't blame people if they can't get into these kinds of shows, but I don't think they are malicious shows for having the girls fight eachother. It is not like they are helpless. In fact, they are like living weapons.
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