Forum - View topicBest Supporting Character Tournament: Post-Mortem
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nightjuan
 Posts: 1473 |
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Group C-25
Kisuke Urahara, Bleach vs. Fool, Kaleido Star Voting for: Kisuke Urahara TheTheory has made some interesting points about Fool and the clip isn't actually bad, but in spite of my current lack of interest in all things Bleach Kisuke appears to be a fairly versatile character and what has already been said about his overall importance makes him seem a little more convincing, at least for this round. Group C-26 Doug, Kurau Phantom Memory vs. Tomoyo Daidouji, Cardcaptor Sakura Voting for: Tomoyo Daidouji Not much of a fan of her character type, all things considered, but it's curious to note how Tomoyo seems to have the better arguments in her favor in spite of Doug's technically superior clip. In addition, I still think Doug shouldn't have defeated Straight Cougar last round, who I felt was a fairly memorable character, which doesn't make me especially generous about his continued presence. Group C-27 Maestro Stresemann, Nodame Cantible vs. Rakushun, The Twelve Kingdoms Voting for: Rakushun Well...this is going to be more of a vote in favor of Rakushun than one against Maestro Stresemann, since I feel most of the arguments against him have been rather overstated as of late. For a character who could have been easily dismissed based on something as superficial as his design, the role Rakushun ultimately fulfilled in the The Twelve Kingdoms was considerably important. Yes, it didn't make him the most complex or multidimensional character, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Redemption is one of the concepts I tend to value, more often than not, and he was able to serve that purpose quite memorably as a supporting cast member. In line with what Key has mentioned, Rakushun himself still had at least some subtle development from time to time. And, more or less in agreement with what abunai has pointed out, from a cynical perspective it would be far too easy to deconstruct many of the remaining participants in the tournament. Complexity can be an asset, by all means, but so can simplicity. Group C-28 Mao, Darker Than Black franchise vs. Wakaba Tsukishima, Cross Game Voting for: Wakaba Tsukishima It is hard to deny that Mao was quite memorable and entertaining in Darker than Black, but he really didn't have the same kind of monumental impact as what Wakaba easily accomplished in Cross Game in spite (or, in a way, perhaps because) of her fleeting presence. It will really take a lot to match the level of influence she was able to passively and actively exert and Mao's admittedly worthwhile role just doesn't have what it takes. |
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ccdx
 Posts: 312 |
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Group C-25
Kisuke Urahara, Bleach vs. Fool, Kaleido Star Not a strong feeling either way. Guess I'll vote for Kisuke Urahara. He seems like he has a lot to offer the main characters of the show. Fool on the other hand seems to only offer wisdom, and negatively going about it in the same fashion every time. Group C-26 Doug, Kurau Phantom Memory vs. Tomoyo Daidouji, Cardcaptor Sakura Wow, I can't think of a stronger example of the "supporting the main character" type of supporting character than Tomoyo. That's her whole job in the show, her purpose in life is to help Sakura. Group C-27 Maestro Stresemann, Nodame Cantible vs. Rakushun, The Twelve Kingdoms The much debated matchup of the group. Well, I have seen both series and can easily say, Rakushun plays a much important role in the overall series. Stresemann is great for comic relief and helps out Nodame on many occasions. Although he kinda messes up in the final season... Group C-28 Mao, Darker Than Black franchise vs. Wakaba Tsukishima, Cross Game This is a tough one. I have seen neither series and find it very hard to believe that a character that dies in the first episode could have such a large impact on the rest of the show. However, I will have faith in Key for now and vote for Wakaba. I will endeavor to watch the first few episodes of Cross Game before the next round so I can make a more informed decision next time. |
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The Naked Beast
 Posts: 1028 Location: A Blue Planet |
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This round will be hard for me to make justifications since I am not familiar with many of the characters and series in which they appear. I will have to go on people's arguments. Will my votes still count?
Group C-25 Kisuke Urahara, Bleach vs. Fool, Kaleido Star There is a lot of support for Kisuke and for good reason. My vote goes to: Kisuke Urahara. Group C-26 Doug, Kurau Phantom Memory vs. Tomoyo Daidouji, Cardcaptor Sakura I have only seen the edited version of Cardcaptor Sakura but I still distinctly remember Tomoyo Daidouji/Madison Taylor. Somehow, the fact that capturing magical creatures does not seem to faze Tomoyo. She, in fact, goes along with Sakura on her "card captures." The special costumes and videotaping seems weird to me but she still stands by Sakura's side. For all her support to Sakura's efforts, my vote goes to: Tomoyo Daidouji. Group C-27 Maestro Stresemann, Nodame Cantible vs. Rakushun, The Twelve Kingdoms There seems to be a lot of support for both characters so this makes it hard for me to vote. But after reading through people's arguments, I am going with Rakushun. My vote goes to: Rakushun. Group C-28 Mao, Darker Than Black franchise vs. Wakaba Tsukishima, Cross Game I am reading other people's post and the character guide and have seen how much influence that Wakaba has on Cross Game's characters and the series. What gives me the push to vote for her is that she is still mentioned in many of the episodes. For someone to have such importance to the series my vote goes to: Wakaba Tsukishima. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18458 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 3 Group C is now closed.
With 20 votes in, the results: C-25: Kisuke Urahara crushes Fool 17-3 with his zanpakto. C-26: Tomoyo Daidouji's cute outfits dazzle Doug, 15-5. C-27: Rakushun barely edges out Maestro Stresemann 11-9. C-28: Wakaba Tsukishima stomps on Mao's tail, 15-5. So three were blow-outs - and fairly predictably so - while the one that should have been close came down to the final two votes. (The match was tied at the 18-vote mark.) That was undoubtedly the hardest-fought battle of the tournament so far in terms of arguments, with both candidates easily worthy of advancing, but, sadly, one had to fall. Looks like we're going to have two great match-ups next round, too. Next group should be up shortly. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18458 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 3 Group D is now closed.
Results can be found here. Precautionary warning: due to a time crunch involving the Summer Preview Guide (why did so much stuff have to become available late this afternoon and evening???), I have not yet had time to do a thorough once-over for accuracy and operation on most of this set of video clips. If the context blurbs are not accurate or something doesn't work, please let me know with a PM. (Normally ccdx is very reliable on this, so I'm not expecting problems, but you never know.) Given comments made last round, I will be very curious to see how close (or not) some of these match-ups are. I'm not so sure that any of these will be a blow-out; my bet's on one. Group D-25 Kuu, Haibane Renmei vs. Osono, Kiki’s Delivery Service Group D-26 Tanda, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit vs. Euphemia li Brittania, Code Geass Group D-27 Ami Kawashima, Toradora! vs. Pedro, Excel Saga Group D-28 Akio Furukawa, Clannad franchise vs. Gai Daigoji/Jiro Yamada, Martian Successor Nadesico Last edited by Key on Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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Group D-25
Voting for: Kuu, Haibane Renmei Reasons: Arguments made for her in the past have been quite strong and what I remember of Osono doesn't really warrant her moving past this point, IMO. Group D-26 Voting for: Euphemia li Brittania, Code Geass Reasons: Past arguments have made Tanda sound very strong competition but I still have to go with Euphie because she's definitely the strongest character that I'm familiar with still in the running. Group D-27 Voting for: Pedro, Excel Saga Reasons: I thought this would be the round where Pedro and I part ways but Ami doesn't quite sway me her way completely and so I'm going to stick with him because, as I said before, thinking of him always makes me smile/laugh/both. Group D-28 Voting for: Gai Daigoji/Jiro Yamada, Martian Successor Nadesico Reasons: Previous arguments really built him up and I do remember him from what little I've seen of the series, which is definitely a good sign. |
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LydiaDianne
 Posts: 5634 Location: Southern California |
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Group D-25
Osono, Kiki’s Delivery Service I don’t really have a very solid reason as to why I’m voting for Osono. I just like her as a supporting character better. Group D-26 Tanda, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit Tanda because just because he’s a quiet sort of person doesn’t mean that he isn’t a strong person and strong supporting character. Group D-27 Ami Kawashima, Toradora! Ami from the description and the clip seems like some of the girls that have existed throughout time and have occasionally gotten what they have deserved. And it’s a vote against anyone who was in Excel Saga. Group D-28 Gai Daigoji/Jiro Yamada, Martian Successor Nadesico Remaining loyal to Gai. Probably one of the few characters in anime that appeared for only a brief time but had the longest lasting affect on the cast and series. |
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RHachicho
 Posts: 897 Location: Essex, UK |
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Group D-25
Kuu, Haibane Renmei vs. Osono, Kiki’s Delivery Service voting for Kuu Haibane Renmei. I have argued against Kuu advancing in the past but I have to admit she IS a stronger support than Osono. Despite her lack of depth of personality. Group D-26 Tanda, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit vs. Euphemia li Brittania, Code Geass This is a very difficult decision for me. Personally I am inclined to vote for Euphemia because I do not know Tanda. This seems unfair at this point in the tournament so I will watch guardian of the spirit (or at least skim through it) and come back to edit my post with a vote. Can someone reccomend me a good "Tanda" episode? I don't really mind spoilers. Edit : After watching that episode my vote goes to Tanda Since while I feel that both characters lent a respectable amount to their shows Tanda was a richer character overall. And despite Euphy being a very good character in her own right she does fall right into the "peace loving princess" mold. Ty for the episode reccomendation Rainbowcourage. Group D-27 Ami Kawashima, Toradora! vs. Pedro, Excel Saga Voting for Ami Kawashima Pedro has advanced this far I feel purely due to his novelty factor. Let's face it he's a whiney little s.o.b and I feel does not deserve to beat Ami. Who despite her personality was a solid contributing factor in her shows drama and story. Group D-28 Akio Furukawa, Clannad franchise vs. Gai Daigoji/Jiro Yamada, Martian Successor Nadesico Voting for Gai Daigoji/Jiro Yamada Although Akio is likeable and that I feel has gotten him past some easy rounds so is Jiro who although limited on screen time heavily effected the plot of Nedisco and played a heavy role in determining the crews direction. I feel it would only be a small exaggeration at worst to say he was central to it. Last edited by RHachicho on Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:54 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Hmm, results fell into pretty much what was expected from mini-game predictions. Mao and Fool did a little better than predicted, but C-26 and C-27 were exactly on the expected lines.
Scoring results. Group C was the best overall scoring for round 3, but only by a little. The top 3 have remained in the same position with respect to each other as last round (Olliff, Key, and Mow at 121, 120, and 117, respectively), but dtm (97) has moved up a little and slipped into 4th place, just ahead of Ggultra (96) and JesuOtaku (94). ~~Epic~~ (93) also has pulled up a bit into 7th ahead of Spastic Minnow (92), marie (91), and TG23 (91). |
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rainbowcourage
 Posts: 1216 Location: what is commonly known as "hell week" |
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The video clip link isn't working, but episode 4 is probably one of the best to watch. |
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Mister V
 Posts: 1000 |
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There's something of a problem... I feel like most of the arguments for the characters have already been stated. I can't help but feel that by this point it falls to personal preference. Especially with matches as close as these.
Group D-25 Kuu, Haibane Renmei Personally, Kuu is more memorable. Much has already been said about her role, blah blah. Group D-26 Tanda, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit A vote of personal preference. Whereas Euphemia is an important plot device, this is as far as she goes, for me. Tanda is too likeable to be beaten by her, even if she provided one of the best moments of both seasons of Geass. On a side-note, Tanda is like a better Rakushun - they're close, but if the latter was here, I'd probably vote against. Group D-27 Ami Kawashima, Toradora! Again, character versus plot device, though in a very different way. Pedro is good fun, he certainly provides his share of comedy, but Ami has to be one of the better characters in all romcoms out there. Pedro's good at what he does, but he can't really beat a full-fledged character. Group D-28 Akio Furukawa, Clannad franchise I thought I would be voting for Gai here, but damn. The clip made me change my vote. Genuinely made me laugh. Also, that is probably the best father figure I've seen. Makes me want to watch Clannad, suddenly. |
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nightjuan
Posts: 1473 |
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I'll make up my mind about who to vote for in this bracket later, one way or another...but, as abunai mentioned during the previous round and as I've also recently acknowledged, crying "plot device" can be a bit of a lazy answer and not a very good argument in and of itself. For one thing, most characters in a story -let alone supporting ones- are supposed to advance the plot in some manner and the better or most memorable ones tend to be those who do so in at least one significant way. In other words, those who aren't devices for the plot tend to be forgettable or insignificant, as in simple background decorations with no lasting purpose or function. It is, in that sense, an argument leading to a logical dead end since many of these characters wouldn't have made it so far if they didn't eventually serve some kind of plot-related role, unless you want to include only those who were merely entertaining sideshows. The real debate, in my humble opinion, should be more about the actual characteristics of the characters themselves -whatever you want to make of them- and less about a disingenuously selective deconstruction of storytelling. As I've previously discussed here and elsewhere, I would argue that Euphemia did have her own character arc throughout the first season of Code Geass. It wasn't like she appeared for one episode, did something and disappeared immediately after, leaving no sign of her presence beyond vaguely "moving the plot" only to be forgotten forever. That's what I would call a "plot device" and while Code Geass as a whole certainly had more than a few, particularly during the obscenely rushed second season, calling Euphemia one does her a serious disservice. Some tend to focus only on spoiler[the fact that she died and the way in which her death came about] but this position seems rather shortsighted, especially because it ignores that Euphemia had plenty of previous scenes which fleshed out her character (for instance, her interactions with Suzaku, Cornelia and even Lelouch/Zero) long before any of that came about. The clip has one of the earlier ones, in fact, but there are others. This doesn't necessarily make her the preferred option, in and of itself, but that isn't my point. I believe that whether or not people care about Euphemia at all or even find her remotely interesting -which is ultimately a subjective matter and not an exclusively objective evaluation- they should at least try to take as much information as possible into consideration. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18458 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Crap. That's what I get for not having time to double-check everything last night. 
Link is fixed and should work fine now. |
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RHachicho
Posts: 897 Location: Essex, UK |
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@ Nightjuan I don't know about others but when I call a character a "plot device" I mean that the character is "just" a plot device and has no particular merit in excess to fulfilling it's function in the story. The character in short lacks depth.
I think it can be used in a lazy way to debunk characters you personally don't like. But I would hope that the majority of voters do not do this. And if they do there is nothing to be done about it. You make a vote meaningless when you start setting ground rules halfway through because you don't like the outcome. The time for that was at the start 
I do agree that all good supporting characters are plot devices. I just do not agree that all plot devices qualify as good supporting characters. At least at this stage in the proceedings. The last tournament seemed to fall foul of this kind of infighting. Which is understandable people are rooting for their characters but let's try and keep it below the level of people walking out in a huff It's just a forum board tournament for christ's sake 
Not that I didn't have trouble choosing between Euphy and Tanda mind. I rooted for Euphy in earlier rounds after all. I don't want to cite youre example myself as I do not consider Euphy to be a bland "plot device only" character. It's just that Tanda still wins for me. It's just that several posters have railed against calling someone a plot device as I admittedly did and still stand by my words in that matter. I simply wanted to make my position clear that I am not using "plot device" as a pretense to debunk any character I personally do not like. If i wished to do this I would have voted against Wakaba. |
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nightjuan
Posts: 1473 |
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I appreciate your comments, but let me try and explain myself. I believe in criticizing arguments, not posters, whenever possible. I'm aware of the fact that this is not the time to "set ground rules" but that doesn't mean counter-arguments aren't allowed, or does it? My intention is to promote a bit of debate here, not to necessarily change anyone's thought process by sheer force of will. That's really up to each individual voter and I don't believe I've suggested otherwise. Some will agree with me, others won't. That's natural. There's no actual prohibition on calling characters "plot devices" but, just as well, if the accompanying arguments seem weak I would say it's fair game to put up a bit of resistance to that and make the case for/against it. Please keep in mind that I'm not even making an argument against Tanda as a character, regardless of where my preexisting sympathies lie. I would say he is a worthy opponent and represents a completely valid alternative. I apologize if some of my comments might come across as a little too aggressive in writing, but you certainly won't see me walking out or insulting anyone regardless of who wins, so I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with having this discussion as long as respect is maintained and the moderators do not rule otherwise. |
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