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Puniyo
Joined: 08 Oct 2015
Posts: 271
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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 8:28 am
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DRosencraft wrote: | I don't mean to put words in anyone's mouth, but what I think Puniyo is trying to get at is that there are two competing goals that have always dogged not just live-action remakes of anime, but the entire phenomenon of adapting anime for non-Japanese (or Asian more broadly) audiences. It's fine to say that the original was so popular, etc., but it remains true too that the scope of the audience it appealed to was small relative to a lot of other IPs outside the anime spectrum. They want to make something that won't piss off the anime community, but also that looks beyond that community to all those people who aren't/weren't interested in that anime.
Any remake's purpose is going to be to tap into that, and you aren't likely going to get there by just regurgitating a product that people can already consume, just with a bit of a different look because it's live-action instead of anime. It's not as though they're adapting series that would qualify as lost media that people can't just watch as their original anime. And unlike live-action, in most cases it's not as though the visual presentation of the originals of the series they've adapted have aged all that much - we're not talking 50+ yr old series here. Given the limitations live-action introduces, simply going for a straight remake is destined to fail as well. It may make anime fans happy, but only a small subset, with most not caring at all about their favorite series being live-action, and little the endeavor will do to grow the fanbase of the IP beyond those who likely would have already heard of the series in its animated form. |
Thanks, this was worded way better than I could ever manage! This is pretty much exactly what I was trying to get at. No matter how much more mainstream anime starts to become, at the end of the day most people still don't and won't watch anime. If you're going to make a TV show, you also have to make sure it appeals to these people - but generally a lot of the reasons we like anime are the same reasons it doesn't appeal to the regular TV audience, hence why adjustments need to be made but no series has managed to pin down a balance that works yet.
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NeverConvex
Subscriber
Joined: 08 Jun 2013
Posts: 2510
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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:09 am
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Huh. Maybe it's one of those experiences where he was so deep into the creative process that he couldn't tell how it would look from the outside anymore.
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SenpaiDuckie
ANN Community Manager
Joined: 16 Sep 2021
Posts: 522
Location: PH
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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:58 am
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Deleted a troll post that also does not contribute to the ongoing conversation.
And I also agree with @Puniyo. I believe that the hard part of any live-action series that is not produced by Japan (in this argument, let's go with Netflix) is capturing similar visual presentations (e.g. characters, background, etc.) of the anime and still capture American audience who have not watched the anime, or have not watched any anime at all. It's trying to get that balance per se. For sure they are aware that their 'for-sure' and immediate audience is the crowd who has watched Cowboy Bebop but it is nothing compared with the numbers of who hasn't watched the anime; who are just bored and browsing Netflix; fans of John Cho and other cast members; etc. It isn't also a surprise that they never continued the series... cause the first time I saw Netflix's Death Note - yep. Let's just leave it at that lol. Now i'm concerned on how they're going to do One Piece, lol but that's another discussion. Let's not trail off with the topic at hand
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MFrontier
Joined: 13 Apr 2014
Posts: 13660
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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:28 am
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Well, I can appreciate Cho's enthusiasm and commitment and wish things had turned out better.
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Stampeed Valkyrie
Joined: 10 Aug 2014
Posts: 856
Location: PA
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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 12:46 pm
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MFrontier wrote: | Well, I can appreciate Cho's enthusiasm and commitment and wish things had turned out better. |
I agree, when you get down to the root of it and get fans out of their prospective trenches. I believe just about everyone wished this went differently.
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 3498
Location: IN your nightmares
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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 12:52 pm
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Realistically I don't have time to watch this show, but I kinda wanted to watch it just for the kicks of being that anime fan who says they liked the Live-Action better than the anime. It's because I never liked Cowboy Bebop, constantly getting distracted by paint drying while forcing myself to watch it.
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MarshalBanana
Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 5500
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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 2:19 pm
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I sympathize with him, it must be hard to put so much effort into something and then see it ended prematurely. On the other hand while I haven't seen the show, so I guess I'm part of the reason why it was cancelled, it doesn't sound like it was something worthwhile being lost.
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BadNewsBlues
Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 6275
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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 6:31 pm
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The Not so Chosen One wrote: | For adaptations of something as weird as One Piece, for example, you have to go all the way on its weirdness, because when there's a live-action adapt of anything, anime fans will be drawn first to that product because they want to see how good the thing they love looks like in live action, which is the most simple explanation a lot of people (especially on this very site) fail to grasp when cosidering why fans ask for that kind of faithfulness, and that's why I think (and also hope) that the NF adapt of that manga/anime fails as well. |
People who ask for an adaptation to be 1:1 faithful to the source material tend to only do this for validation and wanting any new fans to get the same enjoyment of the material that they got out of the source even when some of that material is legitimately no good or simply wouldn’t work in the adaptation.
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Dynamo-
Joined: 02 Aug 2014
Posts: 80
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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 6:45 pm
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The sad part is shows like One Piece have literally no chance of being good as a live-action. Cowboy bebop was in my opinion the closest thing to a slam dunk success but still managed to screw it up.
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catandmouse
Joined: 02 Mar 2011
Posts: 219
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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:08 pm
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I get that you can’t expect a 1:1 adaptation, but why make adaptations and radically change $hit? At that point might as well just do an original story (I’m not talking about bebop in particular, I’ve seen the anime once a while back and a lot of things have been forgotten and I haven’t seen the Netflix series either).
When you start changing character backstories or personalities, that’s disrespectful to the original creator(s), fans, etc.
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Cardcaptor Takato
Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 5162
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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 11:07 pm
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John Cho and the rest of the cast were the best part about the live action Cowboy Bebop and they deserved a much better script than they were given to work with.
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The Not so Chosen One
Joined: 18 Nov 2016
Posts: 433
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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 11:39 pm
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BadNewsBlues wrote: | People who ask for an adaptation to be 1:1 faithful to the source material tend to only do this for validation and wanting any new fans to get the same enjoyment of the material that they got out of the source even when some of that material is legitimately no good or simply wouldn’t work in the adaptation. |
That's a pretty myopic and condescending interpretation of what I said. And I don't get why wanting new fans to enjoy the material we're fans of, be it the source one or the adaptation, as we did, would be a bad thing.
The problem with asking about a 1:1 adaptation (which no one mentioned but yourself, since I talked about trrying to do an adapt as faithful as possible) is not about validation, is about running the risk of alienating the types of audiences you're looking for by not putting the effort to make an adapt as close as the source material (which still include the fans of the source material, whether people in this very site want to understand it or not). Netflix Bebop didn't ask for "vAlIdAtIoN" and strayed too far of its source material by trying to be its own thing, while putting in superficial fanservice, and it was cancelled because in the process, it alienated the majority of people who watched and it didn't like it.
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Cardcaptor Takato
Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 5162
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Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2022 12:57 am
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I think the issue with the live action Cowboy Bebop isn't if they were aiming for a casual audience or the hardcore fans of the original but they didn't really seem to know who they were aiming for where on the one hand the plot and characters diverged from the original in pretty significant ways but they also kept doing 1:1 comparisons with the anime in all their marketing and bring in Yoko Kanno for the score and hiring the original cast for the Japanese dub. The live action Bebop seemed to be a case where they're trying to please everyone but end up pleasing no one by trying to want to do original spin on things but also trying to cater the fans of the original. And also the script was just bad.
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 18434
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
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Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2022 2:05 am
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Cardcaptor Takato wrote: | The live action Bebop seemed to be a case where they're trying to please everyone but end up pleasing no one by trying to want to do original spin on things but also trying to cater the fans of the original. |
Agreed with this - and I'm saying that as one of the (apparently rare?) people who actually mostly liked the adaptation.
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Cardcaptor Takato
Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 5162
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Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:18 am
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Key wrote: |
Agreed with this - and I'm saying that as one of the (apparently rare?) people who actually mostly liked the adaptation. |
This approach can sometimes be done well like the live action Sailor Moon toku show but it's clear the script writers didn't have the nuance to pull it off for Bebop.
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