Forum - View topicREVIEW: Love Me for Who I Am Volume 1
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nargun
Posts: 930 |
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If you haven't worked out that Kyoani have a significant number of socially-out queer staff then there's no bloody help for you. |
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MagicStranger
Posts: 2 |
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So this is a bit off topic with the current discussion but why does the reviewer feel the author genders is a red flag?, Isn't one of the most beloved LGBT manga, Wandering Son, written by a cis woman? Or how about Our Dreams at dusk that while being written by a Trans Person includes a broad spectrum of queer people, if anything I feel like manga authors do A LOT of research when it's about things they don't know, I get that things like "Traps" or "Otokonoko" are a thing but imo there's a clear enough distinction between those series and "LGBT" series to guarantee some sense of confidence it will be handled properly
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15573 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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*raises hand* Well, I kind of really like moe series, something like Endro can be a top watch for me. As I said before I have enjoyed gender ambiguous characters, perhaps related to my identity, even if the characters can often be a mixed bag, I really wish that I could find a certain character to be a little bit less problematic over not being so young and not just having talk about butt stuff all the time. I also think that I have read the "precious work" of Love Me For Who I Am, I know that it is porn but I think it still kind of good, I think it involved one of the other characters actually. And on legitimacy of saying this manga is LGBT when at least at the start it focuses more on Tetsu, I think that it valid because this has Tetsu finding out that he is bisexual, he is attracted to a non-binary person and this has him trying to reconcile his programmed binary ideas of gender to this person that entered his life after he already considered himself open and aware. I think that is legitimate even if it had at this point not gone so much into what makes the non-binary person tick. Having read ahead, I think that elements with his friend are pretty good for how Mogumo identity kind of frames someone else's stuff and that is kind of their thing to work out rather than Mogumo's responsibility. And also Mogumo's family finally touched on for how it could finally provide more insight into what they had to deal with to get to this point and unpack those to actually understand themself better. |
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ANN_Lynzee
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 3028 Location: Email for assistance only |
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After discussing some of the comments with Faye, she decided to make two changes, to the first and last paragraph, to reflect some of the feedback.
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all-tsun-and-no-dere
ANN Reviewer
Posts: 650 |
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For what it's worth, I know a LOT of trans people who take issue with elements of Wandering Son, particularly Takatsuki deciding it was just a phase at the end. The artist of Our Dreams at Dusk is x-gender. |
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MetalEmolga7
Posts: 71 |
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There is a lot of context missing from this discussion. This book was localized in large part due to the efforts of trans women who felt the book would be empowering to LGBT people. To have something that you worked real hard to support be dismissed as trash is soul crushing. While it is inappropriate to harass and personally attack the reviewer. Some people hear are acting like the mere existence of disagreement with the review is some sort of attack.
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trilaan
 Posts: 1071 Location: Texas |
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If someone is not a member of a specific group they write about, even if they want to do it positively with as much care and understanding as they can so that they can place positive attention upon said group, do they have the right to write about that group?
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xBTAx
Posts: 189 |
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I have to say I am a little confused at some of the moderation that’s gone down in this thread. I imagine a decent amount has been deleted that I have not seen - and I appreciate the hard work that goes into that, and I take no issue with it. But I’m alarmed that a queer person entered this thread, talked about how much they liked the reviewed series and were upset by people denying its value, but then was repeatedly talked down to by a cis man... and the queer person was the one who was admonished multiple times. Not the cis man who kept talking over them as a supposed ally, while simultaneously struggling to understand them at all before writing their point off entirely.
I don’t want to pick a fight, and I believe that user was good-intentioned despite their behavior; similarly I feel that the staff didn’t intend anything bad. But in a topic like this I’d think cis men are not the people whose opinions are the most relevant and it was rather disappointing to see a desire for respectability turn very familiar direction. I just hope the team is a little more careful with how it handles such interactions in the future. |
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ANN_Lynzee
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 3028 Location: Email for assistance only |
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The person you're talking about went on to question our writer's identity and presentation. They were moderated for a good reason.
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18434 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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I know the conversation that you're talking about; in fact, I was one of the ones who issued a warning about it. Anyone is absolutely free to agree or even sharply disagree with the "cis man" in question, including about whether or not his statements have merit. However, the queer person in question went way overboard in the harshness of their response, in a manner that's been known to provoke trouble in the forums in the past. Who's "cis" in this matter and who's not, whether this is an LGBTQ+ topic or not, and whether or not those two align, has no bearing on that whatsoever. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16963 |
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Whether you're queer, trans, black, white, christian, jewish, american, european, or a space alien from chrono nebula 8 the moment you start attacking people directly and insulting them you're being warned or put on moderation depending on the situation. Just because you're queer and it's a queer topic being discussed does not give you carte blanche to insult others. There's nothing confusing about that. Others had comments removed as well for the same behavior.
Now let's get this back on the actual topic please. If you have further concerns of this nature the Feedback section is the place to post them. Thank you. |
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SquadmemberRitsu
 Posts: 1391 |
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Feel free to delete this comment too. But this is a sensitive issue and I would strongly urge you to reconsider this verbiage, especially if your goal here is for us all to be more tolerant. I assure you that many of us in those minority groups are not flattered or amused by these 'all lives matter' esque comparisons to space aliens that only seem to come up when the topic is about race or sexuality. |
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xBTAx
Posts: 189 |
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I don’t know if there‘s a point in disagreeing further on the issues of tone policing, but I want to say I’m specifically confused by your wording here - the user definitely self-identified himself as a cisgender man, so I’m not sure why you are putting that or “cis” in quotes? As far as I know I only used terms people referred to themself as in my post, so they shouldn’t be in question. Did I miss something? Anyway, I’ll drop it and return to the topic at hand - though I guess I cannot exactly say much till my own copy arrives later today - but I’m just left feeling like it’s a little difficult to see how productive that can be to have here when I’ve seen the discussion directed in this manner so far. But I will be glad to be wrong. (And similarly: I think all this does merit noting in-context without having to go through the effort of making an entire feedback thread. I understand why that exists, but it seems unlikely to be worth making for this topic, not because of doubting that the staff would care but simply because I don’t have the context of many other moderation decisions on this topic that would make a broader thread worth it. I can only see what I’ve seen.) (EDIT: I didn’t want to cause more trouble by bringing it up myself- but I will second Ritsu on the above post. Even at best, it just comes across as dismissive.) |
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14sick
Posts: 4 |
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The revision to the review is an improvement, but it still contains a few very odd statements that make me worry about my own future as an aspiring artist and writer. Has Kata Konayama publicly stated somewhere that they aren't nonbinary? Does the fact that they only learned recently about the existence of nonbinary people, as they mentioned in the author's note, disqualify them from realizing in the future they are and have always been nonbinary?
I've wondered whether I might be NB before (my feelings about gender parallel Faye's as described in the review to a degree,) and I would appreciate the perspective of people who are NB whether I am allowed to label myself as such, since I'm pretty sure I only learned about the concept of being nonbinary on the internet a few years ago myself. It's not taught in American schools and I highly doubt it's taught in Japanese ones either. Also, if I do realize that I am nonbinary, but decide that I would prefer not to share the fact publicly while creating artwork that reflects my personal experiences, is that also not valid somehow? If I choose not to share with the world that I myself am queer, for private reasons, does that render my artwork incapable of seeming interested in depicting queer realities? |
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DuskyPredator
Posts: 15573 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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We will have to go the same way with people like an author as we do in looking at a character. Not make any assumptions unless they say so themselves, don't assume they are any particular identity, and that includes straight cis. This can normalise people coming out any direction, and I would say even not scare people who are yet to explore themselves. Being LGBT should not be an exception rather than equal opportunity.
Of course being explicit can also nice in works so we don't have things like queerbaiting, and forward the culture war. |
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