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prime_pm
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 2337
Location: Your Mother's Bedroom
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 Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:12 pm
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So basically they were Alt-Right before the Alt-Right?
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Hellsoldier
Joined: 21 Jun 2013
Posts: 754
Location: Porto,Portugal,Europe,Earth,Sol
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:47 pm
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| prime_pm wrote: | | So basically they were Alt-Right before the Alt-Right? |
That sums it up pretty much.
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DerekL1963
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Joined: 14 Jan 2015
Posts: 1114
Location: Puget Sound
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:14 pm
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| Hellsoldier wrote: |
| prime_pm wrote: | | So basically they were Alt-Right before the Alt-Right? |
That sums it up pretty much. |
Not really, no. The (American) Alt-Right has been around in some force and varying forms for well over a century. We didn't used to sugar coat their name to give them an air of respectability though. We used to use their true names - racist, fascist, Klan, and Nazi.
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vonPeterhof
Joined: 10 Nov 2014
Posts: 729
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:24 pm
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| SilverTalon01 wrote: |
| slau783 wrote: | | I think MarineCorps is actually referring to the anime Konosuba (Kono Subarashi Sekai ni Shukufuku wo). In that anime there is a religion called the Axis Church, but their followers are extremely pushy in trying to get people to join or convert. Even the people in the anime call it a cult. |
That is slightly inaccurate. The word the subtitles were using to mean cult is the same that you will find following Christ in the Japanese word for Christianity. There is no distinction in Konosuba between the two just a translator's preference to use cult. I'm not taking issue with the choice to call it a cult just that the distinction you are talking about isn't there. Not that there is much of a difference between a cult and a religion anyway. |
Besides, Konosuba's Axis cult was more of a stab at "new religions" than at the uyoku dantai. A lot of the comments on NicoNico were jokes(?) about how the heroes' experiences in the Axis cult-dominated town reminded people of walking through the Shinanomachi area.
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Chrysostomus
Joined: 11 Mar 2015
Posts: 335
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:48 pm
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| DerekL1963 wrote: |
| Hellsoldier wrote: |
| prime_pm wrote: | | So basically they were Alt-Right before the Alt-Right? |
That sums it up pretty much. |
Not really, no. The (American) Alt-Right has been around in some force and varying forms for well over a century. We didn't used to sugar coat their name to give them an air of respectability though. We used to use their true names - racist, fascist, Klan, and Nazi. |
The Alt-Right didn't exist prior to internet meme culture so you're dead wrong.
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Shaterri
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 173
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:58 pm
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| Chrysostomus wrote: |
| DerekL1963 wrote: | |
Not really, no. The (American) Alt-Right has been around in some force and varying forms for well over a century. We didn't used to sugar coat their name to give them an air of respectability though. We used to use their true names - racist, fascist, Klan, and Nazi. |
The Alt-Right didn't exist prior to internet meme culture so you're dead wrong. |
While I wouldn't go so far as the post you're responding to, the current 'alt-right' movement has clear roots in the massive surge in popularity and reach of conservative talk radio which occurred mostly (albeit far from exclusively) as a reaction to the original election of Bill Clinton in 1992. So it doesn't predate the Internet per se, but it most certainly predates the 'meme culture' origins you're trying to pin it to.
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CeaseActivity
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:03 pm
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| Chrysostomus wrote: | | The Alt-Right didn't exist prior to internet meme culture so you're dead wrong. |
What? You wouldn't consider the KKK, the Tea Party movement etc to be alt right? They existed way before the internet.
No political movement can stay the same forever of course since they are shaped by the social and political climate of the time. The internet is a large part of how politics are changing in modern day even if it didn't create the movements.
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DerekL1963
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Joined: 14 Jan 2015
Posts: 1114
Location: Puget Sound
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:26 pm
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| Shaterri wrote: | | While I wouldn't go so far as the post you're responding to, the current 'alt-right' movement has clear roots in the massive surge in popularity and reach of conservative talk radio which occurred mostly (albeit far from exclusively) as a reaction to the original election of Bill Clinton in 1992. So it doesn't predate the Internet per se, but it most certainly predates the 'meme culture' origins you're trying to pin it to. |
*Nods* And the militia movement and the Kluckers and the Randites were already around and rode that wave of rising paranoia... And the whole mess has it's roots in the mostly WASP Religious Right whose roots run through the Reagan era back to Nixon's Southern Strategy. Which itself was an appeal to the tensions arising from the dismantlement of the Jim Crow laws in the 50's and 60's. (And you can trace parts even further back to the Know Nothings of the mid-19th century if you care to.)
The individual to whom you're responding may be one of the many I've met who confuse the rise of the media friendly and superficially acceptable term 'Alt-right' with the rise of the 'Alt-right' movement. The leaders of the 'Alt-right' encourage that confusion because it obscures the roots and nature of the movement. (In the same way they earlier co-opted the grassroots TEA Party movement and silently converted it into an astroturf organization.)
And with that I think I'm done with this sub thread, we're headed dangerously far afield and into territory well outside of Japan and Japanese culture.
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vanfanel
Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 1242
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:27 pm
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[quote="CeaseActivity"]
| Chrysostomus wrote: | | What? You wouldn't consider the KKK, the Tea Party movement etc to be alt right? They existed way before the internet. |
The KKK's obviously been around for a long time, though it's practically irrelevant now as a political force. The Tea Party arose during the Obama administration, but it's more a collective of groups than a monolithic entity. And I'm frankly shocked to see it in the same sentence as the KKK, as its primary beef is with the government's unsustainable spending (not merely tax and spend, but tax-and-borrow and spend).
Alt-right seems to mean whatever its users want it to mean, so I consider it a pretty useless term.
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Chrysostomus
Joined: 11 Mar 2015
Posts: 335
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:49 pm
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| Shaterri wrote: | | While I wouldn't go so far as the post you're responding to, the current 'alt-right' movement has clear roots in the massive surge in popularity and reach of conservative talk radio which occurred mostly (albeit far from exclusively) as a reaction to the original election of Bill Clinton in 1992. So it doesn't predate the Internet per se, but it most certainly predates the 'meme culture' origins you're trying to pin it to. |
| CeaseActivity wrote: | | What? You wouldn't consider the KKK, the Tea Party movement etc to be alt right? They existed way before the internet. |
Guys, please, it's in the name: ALTERNATIVE-right. It's not a reaction to Bill Clinton or whatever liberal candidate or policy, it's a disgruntled reaction against the "establishment" conservative elites and how they, in their view, have consistently failed in representing them and/or betrayed them. It's birth goes hand in hand with transgressive internet meme culture.
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Polycell
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:28 pm
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A name is nothing. The Tea Party was originally set up by some libertarians, but when the day actually came it quickly became the banner for the religious right. Similarly, the term "alt right" is little more than a form of self-identification; there's no neat set of beliefs that can be used to say "you are now alt right". I've also seen the term "new right" thrown about in these sorts of discussions, further complicating the matter.
It's just a mess.
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Compelled to Reply
Joined: 14 Jan 2017
Posts: 358
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:40 pm
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The Glendale statue shouldn't exist because it's not America's problem. I have a feeling an underlying factor exists where Korean expats are attacking the United States for finding absolutely no evidence of forced sexual slavery, and even used many of the same comfort women during the Korean War. The original statue, which helped open old wounds, faces Japan's Embassy in Seoul, illegally on a public sidewalk, and their local government ignores the law.
| prime_pm wrote: | | So basically they were Alt-Right before the Alt-Right? |
No, Uyoku Dantai are just your usual neo-facists. The closest historic parallel to the Alt-Right could be the LaRouche movement, which originated in the 1960s splintering from left-wing politics and taking a more right-wing stance.
Last edited by Compelled to Reply on Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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championferret
Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 765
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:50 pm
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If it gives me any consolation its that whenever I see these idiots in Japan blaring the speeches of war criminals and bowing profusely to the national anthem, literally every other japanese person in the area is ignoring them, pretending they aren't there.
It made me laugh how a while back I saw a ranking in some magazine about the no.1 type of man (because they tend to always be men for some reason? Maybe female Uyoku exist but they aren't common) women would never want to date - Ukoyu were far and away no.1  They're guys that can make otaku look cool.
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ly000001
Joined: 30 Apr 2010
Posts: 73
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:57 pm
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nargun
Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 925
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:08 pm
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| prime_pm wrote: | | So basically they were Alt-Right before the Alt-Right? |
Sure.
All fascist movements are fundamentally the same. A bunch of socially-ill-adapt people from semi-prosperous backgrounds find they can't get ahead in life, because changing social structures means their privilege isn't as effective in concealing their other deficiencies as it was, or they thought it was, in their parent's days. And rather than work to change themselves they set themselves up to change society back to the Good Old Days when detail orientation and following instructions carefully was enough to let you get ahead, and shut down all those liberated women and #ethnics and #queers who are, if not the agents of change, the ones who doomed the proper shape of society, at least its symbol.
[most popular job for suicide bombers is "unemployed engineering graduate with patchy work history", but that's the arab world. In the US or japan your directionless young men who just can't seem to get ahead wind up following different paths and in different places]
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