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Answerman - Why Do All The Kids Want To Move To Tokyo?


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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 11:40 pm Reply with quote
Sakagami Tomoyo wrote:
As an Australian, let me say: no we don't. Sure you will get a handful of people who want a quieter, more relaxed environment, but they are the exception, not the norm. Most of the reasons discussed for Japan hold true enough here, except you've got slightly more choice of cities, and none of them are the nation's capital. As for "surrounded by friendly warm people" in rural areas, that depends how white, Christian, and conservative you are.


Ah, so it's not popular in Australia? (Come to think of it, most of the people I've had who tell me they desire to move to the countryside here in the United States ARE white and Christian, though it's hard to tell their political alignment.)

Mojave wrote:
Not quite. While it's true that the cities directly on the border of LA proper function largely as districts/wards, anything further than about 20 minutes away from the city limits acts very much as its own city. Especially because mountains and hills often physically separate them from LA. Places like Rancho Cucamonga have their own cultural and economic infrastructure, distinct from LA's. While many people there do work in LA, it also has its own workplace and entertainment infrastructure comparable to geographically distinct medium-sized cities. The places in the greater Tokyo metropolitan area don't really function that way, as infrastructure-wise and culturally as well they're pretty much indistinguishable from Tokyo.

Those sort of medium-sized suburbs having their own infrastructure is very much a mostly American oddity. I lived around Hamburg, Germany for a while, and that sort of thing doesn't exist there. The closest cities of over 100k population to it are 45 minutes away across swaths of farmland, and all the neighboring towns to Hamburg of 10-30k are all dependent mostly on Hamburg's infrastructure. I lived in a town on Hamburg's border named Ahrensburg, and aside from 2-3 grocery stores and maybe 10-15 other shops (mostly food places), there's pretty much nothing else there. Everyone there goes into Hamburg to do anything with their free-time. Ahrensburg couldn't survive without Hamburg, whereas Rancho Cucamonga still has all the infrastructure needed to survive on its own if anything happened to LA. Mid-sized suburbs and commuter cities that have their own fully-functional infrastructure are quite uncommon outside the US, and are different functionally than wards of mega-cities like Tokyo are.


The REALLY small towns in the United States can be like that though, with the inhabitants dependent on the nearest major city, or at least semi-major city, though I guess the difference lies in things people need to survive versus goods that improve living. That is, I'm guessing what you mean isn't the same thing as people in a small town of 100 in Wyoming driving to Casper to buy phones.

And yeah, as someone who lives in the San Fernando Valley, I must say that I do get frustrated at times at the low priority the central Los Angeles County government puts us on, that the SFV is largely self-sufficient out of necessity. (Though we're still a higher priority than the San Gabriel Valley, the La Crescenta Valley, the Santa Clarita region, Palmdale-Lancaster, and so forth.) Basically, anything that isn't part of the LA Basin or Long Beach is an afterthought. We are a collective Hufflepuff House.
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DerekL1963
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 11:53 pm Reply with quote
Mojave wrote:
Those sort of medium-sized suburbs having their own infrastructure is very much a mostly American oddity. I lived around Hamburg, Germany for a while, and that sort of thing doesn't exist there. The closest cities of over 100k population to it are 45 minutes away across swaths of farmland, and all the neighboring towns to Hamburg of 10-30k are all dependent mostly on Hamburg's infrastructure. I lived in a town on Hamburg's border named Ahrensburg, and aside from 2-3 grocery stores and maybe 10-15 other shops (mostly food places), there's pretty much nothing else there. Everyone there goes into Hamburg to do anything with their free-time. Ahrensburg couldn't survive without Hamburg, whereas Rancho Cucamonga still has all the infrastructure needed to survive on its own if anything happened to LA.


o.0 Here in the US a town of 10-30k on the border of a larger city isn't going to have much more than you describe as being in Ahrensburg. (And if it does, it's an "anchor" drawing customers from across a much larger area.) Here where I live, we have two towns at the lower end of that range - and neither had any more infrastructure than that until very recently when the area of the county around them started to fill in. (I.E. the infrastructure are 'anchor' stores.) All the infrastructure was either in the biggest town in the county (a whopping 35k!), or started popping up at the geographic crossroads of the county.

10-30k is tiny and not at all relevant to the 'medium sized cities and suburbs' under discussion.

And no, Rancho Cucamonga doesn't have the infrastructure to survive on it's own in it's current form if something happens to LA - in a city of 175k it's largest employer is less than 1k people! (And it's not like there's a lot of such businesses - on the list of top 25 employers, by the time you get to number 7 you're at 500 employees.) Economically, it's completely and entirely dependent on its proximity to LA and the jobs to be found there.
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omiya



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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 12:09 am Reply with quote
Replying to the original article, I would love it if more concerts in Japan were outside of Tokyo / Yokohama, Nagoya or Osaka. Outside of those locations I've only attended concerts in Fukuoka, Akita and Aomori. The local fans were enthusiastic to see Nana Mizuki in Akita and Aomori, and more distant fans such as myself were happy to travel to both cities and catch both concerts. Very Happy
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Sakagami Tomoyo



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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 2:28 am Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
Ah, so it's not popular in Australia? (Come to think of it, most of the people I've had who tell me they desire to move to the countryside here in the United States ARE white and Christian, though it's hard to tell their political alignment.)


Well, I'll put it this way: rural areas are well behind the times in a number of ways, chief among them social attitudes. If someone is white and Christian and wants to move somewhere that's behind the times in terms of social attitudes, they're unlikely to be of a progressive frame of mind.
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MidoriHime77



Joined: 11 May 2017
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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 3:12 am Reply with quote
It's not exactly hard to figure out lol

I'm an Australian living in Japan (and definitely don't want country life, nor do man Australians lol - mot of us want suburbs, but not country, since that's just dust lol). I live in a rural, but better than some, area. It's got mountains and nature and stuff, but not much else. My hometown in Australia (about an hour out from Melbourne) has 20k more people in a smaller area, but so SO many more facilities! Numerous movie theatres, swimmable beaches, cafes, take out, shops, bowling, everything!

My town here has three? cafes, a McDonalds and a book off. Can't swim at the beach, since we're a factory town and the water is dirty and polluted. The factories make the town smell constantly. No cinema and the bowling alley was shut down and demolished. Trains are once an hour and it takes hours to get anywhere. Nothing opens until 10am (or later) and everything is usually shut by 8pm.

Old people are everywhere. Track suits are the most fashionable item. One of my coworkers wears crocs. Another thinks the sandals and socks match is a-ok.

There is literally nobody in the 20's range to date. Jobs are scarce unless you want to be a factory rat. So many people I know here have never been to Tokyo - I've travelled more than most of my coworkers and seen more of Japan than they have (I realise this isn't necessarily an inaka problem, but it's certainly much more expensive and troublesome to travel from here compared to being in or near a transport hub). More have left, but feel compelled to return when their family members become ill - many have the 'I'll return to the big city' dream, but get stuck in inaka life.

I want to move to Tokyo mostly because my friends live there, but any city on the mainland would be fine (lived in Osaka a while back and I'd love to go back). It's more convenient to travel, things are open longer, shipping doesn't take as long (Yamato shipping company has reduced it's hours where I am), there are more events to go to, people to meet, things to do.

leafy sea dragon wrote:
My impression reading all the stuff on this site concerning rural towns in Japan is that they by and large do not get modern technology or modern culture. This means they want to keep people in their communities but they don't seem to know how to do it, or they're willing to do it only using traditional techniques.


Many of my coworkers can barely use a computer for printing or putting images on an SD card onto a computer. Most of them are under 50. Some do, sure, but in my town, it's not common to keep up with trends or technology. People keep trying to get tourists/young people involved in Japanese culture (traditional stuff, like pilgrimages) and just don't get that kids are into smart phone games and boy bands and like fashion. We literally have a uniqlo and a shimamura in my town, unless you're looking for a suit. I get giddy every time I go to a big city and see clothes made in the last few months instead of the last few years and am floored every time I see stylish people because I simply don't see it here.

But speaking of that, my town doesn't have a whole lot in the way of traditional things to keep people here. A few festivals throughout the year (3? 4?) but most of the nicer ones, or ones with history are a few towns over. At our festivals, most people get really drunk and kids can play a few festival games. So if people travelled to other ones, they'd need better transport systems or not drink, or stay overnight. We're small enough that it's still easy to know a hell of a lot of people even if you don't go out often. That can be really nice if there's a community vibe, but gossip can carry fast and in a place where image means everything, it's not great.

I'm not a country girl and I try to make the most of it. For example, get an old person on your side and they'll do a lot for you. My rent is cheaper than city living will ever be. I'm less likely to spend money here because... there's nothing to spend it on lol

So yeah. Not hard to see why young people want out. Also, considering there's a push for old people to give up driving, they'll want to stick to the cities too.

I've always wondered why the government isn't putting more effort into promoting other regions (anime would be a great way of doing this - we've seen Free, Kimi no na Wa and YOI do tours/promotional activities) - recently a new logo for Tokyo was revealed to boost it's image to tourists. Say what now? That time, money and committee effort could have gone towards getting people to visit Kumamoto and boosting the economy there, or visiting Fukuoka (still a big area, but with cool day trip opportunities), or Mie, Hyogo, or the island of Shikoku, where the onsen that inspired Spirited Away's bathhouse is. Clearly there is room for improvement.

I feel like I've painted rural Japan negatively. For me, it kinda is, since after work, there's not really time for me to go anywhere before things are already shutting. It has it's perks, and since houses and apartments can be bigger, they're good for raising families, and I find a lot of the kids here to be incredibly kind (yes, Japanese are nice stereotype, but this goes beyond that). It's not all bad, but when you want more, or something different, or city life, and it's constantly in your face through the media, it does kinda suck.
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Kadmos1



Joined: 08 May 2014
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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 7:34 am Reply with quote
Heck, I don't think I would want to live downtown in any major city considering how crowded, noisy, and expensive it can be. However, I do enjoy living in the only US capital city where the city proper has 1+ million people. Also, Phoenix proper is bigger in land area than LA proper and NYC proper.
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Tempest
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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 7:51 am Reply with quote
Ushio wrote:
This article seems to be mixing metropolitan area's and cities together.

Japanese cities
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Japan

Top 5 by population
Tokyo - 8,637,098


Tokyo isn't legally a city. So the exact definition can vary. The Special Wards (definition you used) are around 9 million people, Tokyo Metropolis (ie: The prefecture legally called "Tokyo") is 13 million (The definition Justin used), the Metropolitan area is 38 million people, the work area is 40 million (while something else called the Metropolitan Employment area is only listed as 32 million) and the National Capital Region is over 43 million people.

The special wards area is really a pointless definition. If you cross the border out of the special wards, you'll still be in an extremely urban area.

So many different ways to look at the population of Tokyo. I just usually tell people "It's between 30 and 40 million people."

More details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Tokyo_Area


Last edited by Tempest on Thu May 11, 2017 7:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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Alan45
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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 7:54 am Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
Quote:
I frequently hear people complaining about how city life is just too complicated and people want to go live out somewhere slow and remote when they retire.


And when they get there they probably will dislike it. No matter where you live, people take the advantages for granted and complain about the disadvantages. If you see someone enthusiastic about city (or country) life they likely are either new to it or have newly returned. In the US, fortunately, it is not an either or issue. You have cities of all sizes and proximity to other areas. While some find their place remote from the conditions where they grew up, most are more comfortable with what they know.

Where I live lacks access to the narrow release of Japanese movies in theaters. I would have to drive four or five hours to Washington DC to see them. However, this is a lack I can deal with. You couldn't pay me enough to deal with even the traffic in the DC area (it gets horrible as far out as Manassas).
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Kadmos1



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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 8:04 am Reply with quote
Kōchi, Kōchi Kochi Prefecture is where I would want to live (119.39 sq. mi. with 332,059 is not exactly crowded) because it is the home city for the Tosa Inu, the largest Japanese dog breed (my avatar is a black one).
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leafy sea dragon



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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 11:45 am Reply with quote
DerekL1963 wrote:
And no, Rancho Cucamonga doesn't have the infrastructure to survive on it's own in it's current form if something happens to LA - in a city of 175k it's largest employer is less than 1k people! (And it's not like there's a lot of such businesses - on the list of top 25 employers, by the time you get to number 7 you're at 500 employees.) Economically, it's completely and entirely dependent on its proximity to LA and the jobs to be found there.


On the other hand, the aforementioned San Fernando Valley, as far as I can tell, CAN function independently on its own (though it's still a collective of interconnected cities). In 2004, there was a vote for the SFV to secede from the rest of Los Angeles County due to the lack of city-based funding we were getting. It was ultimately voted down; the people who lived in the Basin at the time voted overwhelmingly against it.

Not sure what other regions we would've taken with us, if any, but the geography would've been very weird otherwise, as the theoretical San Fernando County would've been geographically one of California's smallest counties and surrounded by Los Angeles County on either three sides or all four.

MidoriHime77 wrote:
It's not exactly hard to figure out lol

I'm an Australian living in Japan (and definitely don't want country life, nor do man Australians lol - mot of us want suburbs, but not country, since that's just dust lol). I live in a rural, but better than some, area. It's got mountains and nature and stuff, but not much else. My hometown in Australia (about an hour out from Melbourne) has 20k more people in a smaller area, but so SO many more facilities! Numerous movie theatres, swimmable beaches, cafes, take out, shops, bowling, everything!


Heh, I was also thinking of those people who move way up north into the Alaskan wilderness, into these outposts here and there, or even just single lone living quarters in the snow and ice, and make a living as fur trappers or guides for travelers or such. I don't know if the extreme heat of the Australian desert is more or less appealing than the extreme cold of the Alaskan tundra though. But yeah, I see your point: Not a lot of appeal living out in the vast sandy lands of Australia.

MidoriHime77 wrote:
Many of my coworkers can barely use a computer for printing or putting images on an SD card onto a computer. Most of them are under 50. Some do, sure, but in my town, it's not common to keep up with trends or technology. People keep trying to get tourists/young people involved in Japanese culture (traditional stuff, like pilgrimages) and just don't get that kids are into smart phone games and boy bands and like fashion. We literally have a uniqlo and a shimamura in my town, unless you're looking for a suit. I get giddy every time I go to a big city and see clothes made in the last few months instead of the last few years and am floored every time I see stylish people because I simply don't see it here.

But speaking of that, my town doesn't have a whole lot in the way of traditional things to keep people here. A few festivals throughout the year (3? 4?) but most of the nicer ones, or ones with history are a few towns over. At our festivals, most people get really drunk and kids can play a few festival games. So if people travelled to other ones, they'd need better transport systems or not drink, or stay overnight. We're small enough that it's still easy to know a hell of a lot of people even if you don't go out often. That can be really nice if there's a community vibe, but gossip can carry fast and in a place where image means everything, it's not great.


Exactly! It seems like marketing with the aim of promoting young people to move to these small towns seems to boil down to, "Here, we do things the old way" like it was something to be proud of. Now, I know some things are best done the old ways, but not everything ought to be like that. Now, I only got Japanese fiction to go on, but something I keep seeing in these stories of the kids who want to move out to Tokyo is that there is always some conflict between the young person, who desires a fast-paced life and has a smartphone and all that, and between his or her parents and elders, who don't understand why this character wants that lifestyle, in a "Why aren't you satisfied with what we have?" kind of way. Does that actually happen a lot in rural Japan?

Now, I don't think it's quite as common in Japan as it is here in the United States, but Americans often really, really like that small community feel that smaller towns have. You mentioned that it's not quite the same though. At the town where I went to college, there was that feel of everybody knowing each other, at least in small geographical areas. The college itself also tried to foster that environment, but because students came over from all around the country, it never works, though it doesn't stop them from trying.

Alan45 wrote:
And when they get there they probably will dislike it. No matter where you live, people take the advantages for granted and complain about the disadvantages. If you see someone enthusiastic about city (or country) life they likely are either new to it or have newly returned. In the US, fortunately, it is not an either or issue. You have cities of all sizes and proximity to other areas. While some find their place remote from the conditions where they grew up, most are more comfortable with what they know.

Where I live lacks access to the narrow release of Japanese movies in theaters. I would have to drive four or five hours to Washington DC to see them. However, this is a lack I can deal with. You couldn't pay me enough to deal with even the traffic in the DC area (it gets horrible as far out as Manassas).


I know I wouldn't be able to stand living in the countryside for the rest of my life. The few years I spent in that small college town nearly drove me crazy due to my interests clashing with the rest of the place (and I'm sure I came off as kind of standoffish and distant because I never really took part in any of their community events).

I've heard about the infamous DC traffic, and when I had gone on a tour one time that went through DC, I experienced it myself from the bus. Are there a lot of rude drivers in DC as well?
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Vibrant Wolf



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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 4:03 pm Reply with quote
So, basically, it's the same reason as to why people in upstate NY would move to the Big Apple, or someone from PEI would move to mainland Canada.
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Alan45
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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 4:42 pm Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
Quote:
Are there a lot of rude drivers in DC as well?


I try to stay as far from there as possible. My basic take is that DC is one of those places where you have people from everywhere. Their driving styles often don't mesh well. Shocked Not to mention how heavy the traffic is. At least they have fairly broad streets. You should try to drive in the parts of Philadelphia built before cars.
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#hiros7039



Joined: 09 Feb 2017
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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 8:06 pm Reply with quote
The definition of tvtropes: Tokyo Is the Center of the Universe where everything like alien invasions happen in one major locale. Same with New York City and London as mentioned. Yeah because most publishers and productions are located there. It's all based what the creator's location.
Some cases, go for another location instead such as Cardiff, Wales.
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SaneSavantElla



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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 8:40 pm Reply with quote
This is happening (and has been for a long time) everywhere isn't it? Many kids want to move to the cities and "take their chances". Heck I'm a product of two such people. If they never dared to leave their quiet rural life and venture out into the capital, they wouldn't have met, and I wouldn't exist right now.

As they grew older my parents would reminisce more often about the provincial life they left behind (where you'll never starve as long as you work your fields, where the meat and vegetables are fresh and have richer flavour, and so on). They also often expressed their regret that us, their kids only knew the city lifestyle. I have a feeling that if given a chance, they would want to retire back in their hometowns. However, those same hometowns are also now urbanized, so it won't make much of a difference...
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loka



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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 9:48 am Reply with quote
Young people also flee the countryside because of the culture. Racism, xenophobia, homophobia, backwards religiosity - these are rampant in most rural areas.
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