Forum - View topicJapanese cultural pressure on a manga-ka's direction.
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Malintex Terek
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In June/July/August of 2006, manga-ka Eiichiro Oda, creator of One Piece was at a crossroad; he had two characters that were currently undergoing a phase of development, but only one character could emerge "unscathed" and either move would result in serious rancor from fans. One character had undergone a lot of serious development and had earned a growing following in the process; the other character hadn't seen much action and some fans were fearing this latter character would fade into the background.
The two pirates were eventually pitted up against a single opponent that had an overwhelming advantage over the underdog, while the other character would have had little trouble pummeling his opponent into dust. Ultimately, Oda chose to sacrifice a hundred chapters worth of plot development for the underdog and handed him a painful and utterly humiliating defeat before sending him off with his tail between his legs; it was the biggest disappointment for this character's fans because he had had relatively little focus, and in spite of his recent, awesome attitude change, such a character forced back into his position as a "comic relief character". After seeing this news article, I reflected upon this incident and remembered how character polls played a large part in how a manga-ka frames his or her work; Fate/stay night was originally planned to follow the "Unlimited Blade Works" scenario (arguably the most popular), but when the character polls came out the story was revamped to please the fans of the "Fate" scenario, pleasing few of the existing fans and only confusing the new ones. The underdog character, in spite of his recent growth, was still near the bottom of the Straw Hat Pirate crew in terms of popularity, and given the large female readership (of personal testimony from one of my contemporaries, the character that was chosen to shine was quite a favourite of girls) I must ask; is it possible Shueisha could have forced Eiichiro Oda to nerf his own project just to please the current fanbase? One Piece's popularity has been steadily falling over the past year, and most of the critics argue the show has lost some of its fire; one of the immutable traits of OP is that it never changed its style, it never grew like Rowling's Harry Potter. But, in recent days, the manga has become fan-centric and is focusing on pleasing only those who Shueisha or Toei Animation seek to sell to, rather than producing what the author wants because he wants to genuinely entertain with the story he wants to tell while making money (as opposed to earning money being the central purpose to producing manga). This kind of pressure was seen later in the year also when Eiichiro Oda was ordered by Shueisha to omit and alter all instances of manji in his manga, even though manji isn't controversial in Japan; this was done to make the manga more appealing to Western buyers. Oda spends time and effort researching his source material, and when he makes a decision there is a purpose to it; such blind greed censored a potentially significant plot point, and no one was pleased about the change. I would talk about Yu Yu Hakusho but my time draws to a close. So, I ask of everyone; how strong do you believe the impact of Japanese cultural or economic pressure is on the direction of a manga-ka? Is the influece growing or decreasing? How much control does a manga-ka really have over his property if a publisher takes offense at something? |
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digitalkikka
 Posts: 462 Location: Chicago, Illinois |
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The publisher's main goal is to sell their product. Something like Weekly Jump is going to need a marketable series with a story and characters that have wide appeal. If a series gains popularity and the manga-ka wishes to make a drastic change it makes sense that a publisher would step in. Could you imagine what would happen if Sasuke got killed off? The outcry of fangirls would shatter eardrums. And when things don't go the way the fans want, it gets ugly. Fans are picky and spoiled so when a series disappoints halfway through they piss and moan all over forums with their NOT AS PLANNED attitude. For an example, look at Death Note.
Aren't girls silly? I mean, we go around ruining manga by voting in character polls! Isn't it crazy that there are girls in the anime/manga fandom? First we leave the kitchen to go on teh interwebs now we ruin One Piece? It's just crazy. |
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Asako
 Posts: 751 Location: Hawaii |
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I wouldn't be surprised if this might be were doujinshi makes its mark in making characters do what their fans want them to do... and play whatever twisted fantasy might cross their minds and make its way to paper.
Personally I would want the mangaka do what they want to do, but if their manga is not popular enough the editor might be forced to cancel their work and put a new story in its place. Sad but many manga end short because of this. But you can probably tell by how the mangaka write their little notes in the back of their graphic novels where they were able to clean up the art and add extras, thank their fans, add extra artwork, answer fanmail, etc. |
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Malintex Terek
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Are you familiar with the saying, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"? Shueisha and Toei appear to have reacted badly to the fall of One Piece and they've been forcing changes while still trying to cut costs. No risk, that is; OP has been successful all these years because it hasn't changed, and Shueisha/Toei's changes are only compounding the damage to the franchise. It's not about still making a profit, Toei at least is angry that OP isn't ranking in top dollars anymore and is just "one of the most successful properties in Japan" rather than "THE" most successful property. So, in their seething pursuit of greed, they're jeopardizing the whole bloody series.
I remember that well, but the fansubbers didn't really have anything to fear except hackings, and they seemed pretty prepared for the outcry. :p Everything changes when money is at stake; one of the whole philosophies of business is to take risks, and people who want to make money but never take risks are doomed to be at the mercy of business cycle fluctuations and freak, coincidental incidences (like a scandal). The pharmacuetical is a good example; stocks in such companies grow slowly with each successful quarter, but whenever anything risky occurs (like, say, declaring an intent to purchase another company) stocks tank. In the long run, the net benefit from such an industry is Malthusian in result, never making a lot of money and taking a long time to make it.
Considering Eiichiro Oda doesn't give a dang about fans or polls, but Shueisha, who measures popularity by the number of fanletters sent in, probably does. Oda did his own thing with Skypiea and people reacted badly, but in comparison to OP's decreased sales now Skypiea was nothing to complain about. |
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Treetastic
 Posts: 164 Location: Canada |
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This is just one of the pitfalls of the industry. Publishers can put pressure on manga-ka. It's not just in Japan, though- you get these things happening in the television and print industry all the time over here as well. In cases like these, the direction is usually what sells. That said, though, I doubt that Eiichiro Oda has no control over his manga. OP is a pretty big franchise. Like you said, he chose to sacrifice a hundred chapters worth of plot development. Fact is, this sort of thing happens a lot, so you'd better get used to it. (Incidentally, the manji probably wouldn't have mattered to anyone that was already reading the manga in America. Yu Yu Hakusho did it- the symbols aren't even pointed the same direction. That's just overzealous publishers worried that they'll lose money if self-righteous western parents happen to see this in a "kid's" comic and boycott... which happens over here often, as well.) |
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digitalkikka
Posts: 462 Location: Chicago, Illinois |
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I'm not current with OP myself, but I was never under the impression that it had fallen. The series has a wide fanbase and the manga is a consistant bestseller. If a series changes, some fans will like it and some won't. Shueisha and Toei are in the business to make money. And with something marketable like OP in their hands, they'll most certainly do all they can to keep it a popular franchise... even it that means alienating a few fans along the way. Companies like that can't please everyone nor can a manga-ka. |
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Malintex Terek
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OP is far from going bankrupt, but the first crack in its formerly flawless steel armour has finally reared its ugly head; Toei/Shueisha have reacted very, very sensitively to it, and since their actions OP has only dipped more and more. It's a popular property, no doubt, but my point is the folks in charge of marketing these titles are uneducated gits, both in Japan and in America (a 4Kids jab, there); despite eight years worth of precedent, they're so scared of losing money they'll irrationlly fudge with a perfectly fine property and ruin the story for the fans in the process. |
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darkhunter
 Posts: 2992 Location: Los Angelas |
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Wow are you some expert of the manga business in Japan or something? You act like you know how a multimillion dollar companies should be handle and that you can do a better job than most of those "uneducated" idiots over at Shueisha. There's just too much speculation with no real hard fact. One Piece hasn't fallen, so why get your panties in a bunch. Oda is still one of the highest paid mangaka. |
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marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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While I don't really know anything about the One Piece situation, I do agree that sometimes companies make bad decisions because they are worried about losing money. While it is an anime issue, the one thing that comes most to mind about this would be the infamous Naruto filler arc...I think the company would have been just fine to take the show off the air and wait it out for more material, but apparently they did not want to lose momentum (though honestly, it's NARUTO, I don't think you need to fear losing fans that much) and so decided against it.
I also don't like series that just go on and on with no conclusion because they are big money makers. One of my favourite things about manga has been that they are contained stories and so if something is over 20 vols I could very well just skip it altogether just because of length (though I do make exceptions for stories that really pull me in, such as NANA). |
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Takai
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[quote="digitalkikka"]
WHAT?!?! 
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milcor1
 Posts: 337 |
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Character development?..... One Piece......? Jump?.....
I don't see why anyone should care that "character development" exists in One Piece or not. In the end it's a Jump manga and it shouldn't try to be the next Monster or something. Actually, I would rather that there not be much of any "character development" in One Piece because that's not really the reason I read it anyways. It's an extremely enjoyable and heartfelt manga that I have no problem with everyones' roles staying just the way they were since whenever they first joined the crew. Ussop for example, alot of people whine and moan about him staying "weak" so to speak, but who cares? Letting Ussop catch up to within reasonable strength of the rest of the crew would be pandering and pointless. As for the question, I think the more popular the work, the more pressure the manga-ka's gonna get. Just look at Toriyama and Dragonball. He wanted to end it earlier but he was "urged" to keep going, but I've thoroughly enjoyed all 42 volumes none the less. |
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digitalkikka
Posts: 462 Location: Chicago, Illinois |
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I was being sarcastic. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going back to the kitchen. |
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zeno99
 Posts: 25 |
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What kind of garbage is that? You must be the most easily entertainable person in the world. One of the biggest points of DB is its character development. Toriyama was forced to continue it but the characters still developed. 
Goku doesn't remain a boy throughout the series. He makes new friends, starts a family. His children grow older and help him out in battles, his children develop and grow. Vegeta and Piccolo turn from enemies to allies, Vegeta starts a family etc. etc. Extensive development happens in other Jump titles as well: Death Note, Yu Yu Hakusho, Bleach, Rurouni Kenshin,I could go on. Charatcer development is one of the things that keeps a manga interesting, and whether you acknowlege it or not: One Piece has it. If you dislike character development so much go read Ranma 1/2. |
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smoochy
 Posts: 367 Location: Texas |
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Silly women, ruining men's anime and manga. But as far as the issue goes, I guess it just depends on the publisher. As Even a Monkey can Draw Manga shows us, art is the spiritual cancer of adolescence, and once your work becomes a certified megahit, you will naturally distance yourself from art. |
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Levitz9
 Posts: 1022 Location: Puerto Rico |
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Well, artistically speaking, that kinda sucks, but Odas' was a tough position--like you said, either way, there was going to be a bad backlash. And, remember--it's the guy's job. You do what you gotta do to keep your job.
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