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Steroid wrote:

It other words, however good SHnY is, it's not very rewatchable.

I disagree. It is not very likely that anyone picked up all the small details from the first watch, and a rewatch would likely give the viewer a chance to notice many things (s)he has not noticed before. Regardless of whether the viewer rewatches Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu in chronological order or air order, there's many little details and subtle hints and references to still pick up (although if this said viewer has followed this thread in its entirety, there's relatively less details to pick up). While chronologically, it's not as exciting, it's still nice to finally go, "Oh! So this is what happened right before that!"

Plus, it's worth a rewatch just to see Haruhi get all over Mikuru.

Stupidman007 wrote:

However, if one judges this series on a rational overall scale, it would be extremely hard to give it a poor rating due to its high quality animation and sound.

The high quality animation and sound enhances the viewing experience, but any given title should not be rated solely on these two things, or even take these things into high consideration.

Kiddy Grade had high quality animation and a wonderful soundtrack, but half of its storyline was garbage, so in the end, it wasn't very good.

Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu, on the other hand, while having both of these things, gets a high rating from me because of its wonderful, immersive, nonlinear storyline and its unforgettable characters (most of which are given subtle and very powerful character development throughout the series).

Steroid wrote:

Of course, the comfort I might take is that since I thought the show was only average, that I'm far more iconoclastic than the rest of you sheep. Anime smile

Well, all hail the Iconoclast! Rolling Eyes

As for your arguments, I would have to disagree with:

Quote:

It other words, however good SHnY is, it's not very rewatchable.

I would disagree because it's possible to pick up on a lot of things that were missed the first time through. For example, episode 00 makes a lot more sense when you watch it after the end of the series because by then you know who the hell all those people are.

**sigh** You know, this is one of those things where some people are going to like it and some people aren't, and some people are going to trash it simply because it's popular. Shikata ga nai, ne?

Last edited by frentymon on Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

frouella wrote:

For example, episode 00 makes a lot more sense when you watch it after the end of the series because by then you know who the hell all those people are.

And you also come to realize how much this one episode alone brilliantly and subtly gave away details regarding what actually happens later, while disguising itself as a simple "hilariously bad student movie."

Quote:

Shikata ga nai, ne?

Or the less formal approach.

Shikata nee na...

[EDIT]

"Shikata ga nai ne" - Can't be helped...
仕方がないね。。。

I guess I'm gonna have to look up shikata in my dictionary...Doesn't seem to be a word I'm familiar with.

Anthony P wrote:

Quote:

Furthermore, although Suzumiya Haruhi herself stereotypes Itsuki Koizumi as a mysterious transfer student, all of the major characters in the show are stereotypes, to one degree or another. Haruhi is the short tempered, aggressive heroine that we're seen before as Chidori Kaname from Full Metal Panic, Kaoru Kamiya in Rurouni Kenshin, and Tomo Takino from Azumanga Daioh. Kyon is the typical passive male protagonist from slice of life anime. He's similar to characters like Hiroyuki Fujita of To Heart and Kenji Tomosaka from Lamune. Yuki is the robotic introvert in the vein of Nadesico's Ruri Hoshino, Evangelion's Rei Ayanami, and Ninomai Kisaragi from Happy Lesson. Mikuru Asahina is the shy and easily embarrassed klutz, similar to Ai Yori Aoshi's Taeko Minazuki and Mahoromatic's Minawa Ando. The characters are interesting and fun, but not ground breaking.

The parallels he's drawn between the characters from other series are stretched rather thin. Just because a story's characters share some superficial similarities to characters from other stories does not render them stereotypical.

Actually, the characters are stereotypical, a fact that Haruhi herself openly acknowledges. In any kind of story, there will be some common character types that appear. What makes the story good or not is what the storyteller does with these characters.

Last edited by The Sphinx on Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:21 am; edited 1 time in total

Concerning characters that will have an impact on future series: Look no further than Kyon. He appeared to be the typical everyman on first inspection until his first soliloquoy- his gift of topical commentary is unique. Out of the anime I've seen he's the cleverest in-character narrator, more like Shakespeare's Hamlet than your stereotypical harem lead. It was the first exceptional thing I noticed about the show. Someday we'll be talking about the Kyon-type characters popping up in all the new slice-of-life series.

I think stereotypes are very hard to get away from in anime. Has there been an anime lately that hasn't had a character that's been done before? Youve got your quiet and antisocial types, strong silent types, over-the-top types, violent types, pervert types, funny-minor-character types, homocidal-killer-that-is-normal-every-other-day types.

I can't think of a character that hasn't been done before!

Take Shuffle! for example. This anime had more harem than anything else, but still all the girls were the adorable-new-wife type with tiny changes like violence here and shyness there.
The main male character was the strong-oblivious-everyone-loves-me type very common in harems.

Is it even possible to create a character that doesnt have some basis in a sterotype, and still imitates real life?

W3b3r wrote:

Is it even possible to create a character that doesnt have some basis in a sterotype, and still imitates real life?

Of course not. Even if it IS a new character, it'll still seem like a stereotype unless an unreasonably amount of effort (for a normal length series) is expended, if it is even possible at all. That's why I like it when the show embraces the stereotype and makes some noticable changes in it (best example I can think of is Gon from HxH, always threw me off balance when he didn't bat an eye at other people dying); but no matter what you do people like to complain, and as long as they do so in a reasonable manner I feel compelled to let them.

I know this is a bit off-topic, but...

Gon is a god-damned freak. In general. I love HxH, but Gon is a freak. I know I'm repeating myself, but IT BEARS REPEATING.

Arxilius wrote:

Gon is a god-damned freak. In general. I love HxH, but Gon is a freak. I know I'm repeating myself, but IT BEARS REPEATING.

What do you really expect from a character named Gon Freeks? Razz

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to pick up on my pun. ;p

selenta wrote:

Yeah, I do have problems with these sort of things: hype.

Stupidman007 wrote:

However, with things that are more hyped, the degree of difference become magnified.

Vortextk wrote:

but just knowing it had raised into like top3 in the rankings and had a 30+ page on it gave it that "hype" feeling that I hate.

Something that I'm going to toss out here:
"Hype" refers to publicity and promotion, generated by commercials, ads, billboards and the like. Which, in the case of Haruhi, is likely what's surrounding it in Japan. But in the case of Haruhi's popularity in fansubs in the rest of the world, what it has surrounding it is buzz. All the talk of Haruhi on forums, anime blogs, and all the ratings and whatnot, that's buzz. Not hype.

Steroid wrote:

Yes, but what bothers me in particular is the personal relation of so many anime fans, who should be reasonably iconoclastic, to a show that, in the last analysis, stands against iconoclasm.

That's a good point, but it kinda relies on one's perspective. While I'd say Haruhi is definitely not iconoclastic, that doesn't necessarily mean that it stands against iconoclasm. Back to perspective, what do you think would be someone who didn't watch anime's impression of the series? They wouldn't percieve a lot of the norms and stereotypes that we've mentioned, because many of the said norms and stereotypes exist moreso in the realm of anime than in fiction in general. So no, I'd say Haruhi doesn't stand against iconoclasm, especially in relation to all fiction.

Anthony P wrote:

iconoclasm

Iconoclism

Cool

Anthony P wrote:

All the talk of Haruhi on forums, anime blogs, and all the ratings and whatnot, that's buzz. Not hype.

yes yes... technically you're right. But the problem is that (at least on my part) I said "hype" as one of the connotations I derive is high expectations. And it's the high expectations people recieve from all the buzz that is unfortunate as it detracts from people's objectivity while viewing, considering a lot of people seem to go into it wanting to hate it.

My prediction for this thread -

The hype/buzz/iconoclasm discussion will go on for another 2-3 pages, and then this thread will slowly die out, and become a thing of the past since the series is already over. For about 2 weeks, this thread will be able to RIP, until the arrival of a random Harutard who will post something along the lines of "i just wachd tis show n itz soooooo gud lyk omg soooooo funni!"

But who knows? Anything can happen. Perhaps this thread will turn into a debate of "Who is more moe? Yuki or Mikuru?"

I vote Yuki. Cool

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