Forum - View topicBest First Episode Tournament: Post-Mortem
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mow123
 Posts: 339 |
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Group D-1
Angel Beats! vs. Tiger & Bunny Angel Beats rubbed me the wrong way. It had a nice iconic end of the first episode, but didn't have the novelty, fun, and twist on a good western genre that Tiger & Bunny had going for it. Voting: Tiger and Bunny. Group D-2 R.O.D. the TV vs. Read or Die (the OVA) The TV series seems to be more ambitious, and driving towards something greater while the OAV just seems to be about instant gratification and doesn't seem to build up as much. Voting for: Read Or Die - TV. Group D-3 Death Note vs. Princess Tutu Beside the likable Duck and the petulant Drosslemyer Princess Tutu doesn't start strong like one of the first shows that came to mind when this tournament came up. Death Note's first episode is better in just in every other way besides maybe likability of characters. The true grimness of Princess Tutu doesn't settle in until much later in the series, and that is only when the show grabs you and doesn't let go. Death Note has a strong hook with first episode and makes you want to marathon it. Well at least marathon it until a certain point when a certain thing happens that practically kills one of the stronger things that the show has going for it. Voting for: Death Note. Group D-4 Gunslinger Girl vs. Revolutionary Girl Utena Gunslinger Girl hits hard with memorable scenes that tug at you emotionally despite being only a first episode. The pathos is complemented by well executed action scenes that will keep the action junkie happy while also developing the foundation of an intriguing plot. I agree that the scene when the scene where the gun is laid down in Henrietta's hospital room is especially moving and gripping in terms of impact for a mere first episode. The attention to detail is also astonishingly whether you focus on the gun or the world and the setting that they live in. Of course, you also have the girls themselves that can only leave an impression that can be described as chilling. Voting for: Gunslinger Girl Thanks Dorcas. How careless of me. Last edited by mow123 on Mon May 14, 2012 10:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Not that it particularly matters for the outcome, but are you sure that's how you intended to vote? The description seems to indicate the opposite. |
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Olliff
 Posts: 550 |
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Group D-1
Angel Beats! vs. Tiger & Bunny As much as I hated Angel Beats as a whole, it had the better first episode. Tiger and Bunny is better in the long term, but it's first impression is too much flash and cliche and not enough substance. The subverted washed up super hero wasn't enough to differentiate it from other similar shows. Angel Beat's first episode is haunting. Thrown into an unknown world that seemingly takes place in a realistic setting at first glance, Angel Beats mystifies. As the first episode progresses, the seemingly normal school yard is soon revealed not what as it seems. That cooky chick may not be crazy after all. It is the afterlife and its a place of the survival of the fittest well at least that's what the first episode wants you to believe. Voting: Angel Beats. Group D-2 R.O.D. the TV vs. Read or Die (the OVA) No contest here. The OAV's first episode is more refine and the off the bat chemistry between Paper and Yumiko can't be matched in the TV series. Voting for: Read Or Die - OAV. Group D-3 Death Note vs. Princess Tutu Death Note has a more entrancing first episode that keeps bringing you back for more. It has an interesting anti-hero who seems cautious yet strangely willing to use the atrocity that he found. Ambition in this man makes this series interesting as Ryuk puts it. The concept itself also encourages the watcher to watch on despite not having a lead that is likable. Sometimes you want a character that you to love to hate. Princess Tutu is a great series, but it's start is slow and far too stereotypically Shojo compared to the rest of the series. The series as a whole is much more special than what the first episode would lead you to believe. Voting for: Death Note. Group D-4 Gunslinger Girl vs. Revolutionary Girl Utena Both are good shows, but at first episode alone Gunslinger Girl makes the stronger impression on several fronts. Music, characters, pacing, perfect mix between action, intrigue and general uneasiness. The uneasiness doesn't set in full-bloom in Utena until much later. Gunslinger Girl edges out Utena by having a stronger impact sooner in not only its action and story, but also in its strength to evoke emotion. Voting for: Gunslinger Girl |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18458 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 1 Group D (part 1) is now closed.
With 18 votes in, the results: D-1: Angel Beats! kicks Tiger & Bunny to the curb, 13-5. D-2: R.O.D. the OVA dominates its TV counterpart, 13-5. D-3: Death Note destroys Princess Tutu, 17-1. D-4: Gunslinger Girl edges Revolutionary Girl Utena, 10-8. As much as the first three matches weren't close, D-4 was probably the most competitive match of the tournament so far. It saw three lead changes and multiple ties, including one as late as 8-8, and neither competitor ever had more than a two vote lead. Anyway, next round should be up within the next half-hour. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18458 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 1 Group D (Part 2) is now closed.
Results can be found here. One more deliberately-chosen match this time as well as a couple of others which have the potential to be interesting. Let's get to it! Group D-5 Fruits Basket vs. The Irresponsible Captain Tylor Group D-6 Mawaru Penguindrum vs. Macross Frontier Group D-7 Ouran High School Host Club vs. Kimi ni Todoke – From Me To You Group D-8 Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit vs. Claymore Last edited by Key on Mon May 21, 2012 11:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ggultra2764
 Subscriber Posts: 3966 Location: New York state. |
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Match D-5: Fruits Basket
The match I hate for this group thanks to both titles being ones I nominated. Captain Tylor gets off to a good start in introducing Tylor and his antics. But for delivering a more emotional punch and establishing Tohru's character well in its opening episode, I have to go with Fruits Basket. Match D-6: Mawaru Penguindrum Both are well-animated opening episodes. Macross Frontier delivers a good amount of fluid, mecha action and has its catchy soundtrack compliments of Yoko Kanno. It also does well at introducing its world and characters as we are introduced to the possible love triangle for this chapter of the Macross franchise in the form of Alto, Sheryl and Ranka. However, it does carry some of the typical cliches of opening episodes in mecha anime with the military using mecha to halt an alien threat and an unwilling youth being forced into fighting in the conflict. On the other end of the spectrum, Mawaru Penguindrum's opening episode does enough to stick out from the norm from the get-go as we get introduced to the Takakura siblings in a family outing that at first goes tragic with Himari's apparent death and then goes on the bizarre side when the nutty penguin companions of the siblings appear and Himari apparently becomes possessed by the weird penguin hat that was bought for her. The meeting that the two brothers have with possessed Himari in the fantastic world ruled by her drops enough hints to tease you into watching more episodes such as the nature of the strange penguin hat, the item in which the being in the hat desires and the kiss Kanba gives to a sleeping Himari. With its combination of drama and bizarre elements, Penguindrum's opening episode hooked me on the series for its entire run and I am definitely supporting it in this match. Match D-7: Ouran High School Host Club Beyond the Sadako running gag that the opening episode to Kimi no Todoke had with Sawako, the first episode to the series felt like nothing special to me as Sawako seemed like your typical helpless and unconfident gal who meets a love interest to help build up her self-confidence. Ouran, on the other hand, does enough to make one well-aware that it won't be your typical shoujo rom-com as the members of the Host Club know they are ripping off male character archetypes of the genre for their admirers. The episode has its fun with the Host Club members realizing Haruhi's true gender one-by-one throughout the episode with a row of light bulbs that usually appear onscreen in the episode and lighting up one-by-one representing whenever one of the guys realize Haruhi's a gal. The episode does a great job at setting up its premise with the introduction of Haruhi's character and tossing her into her unusual circumstances with Tamaki and the Host Club. Match D-8: Moribito: Guardian of the Spirit Claymore's opening episode is decent in setting up its premise with Clare's appearance and Raki joining her as you see the prejudice Clare faces by many folks because of her status as a Claymore. However, it lacks the energy and rich amount of depth found in Moribito's opening episode as we get some great-looking action scenes with Balsa as she protects Chagum in their first meeting with one another and we get a good early peek into the tense family complications and political affairs faced by the boy because of both his social status and the shocking revelation for the reasons surrounding the failed assassination attempt. |
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Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6584 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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Group D-5
Fruits Basket vs. The Irresponsible Captain Tylor Viewing history: First exposure to Fruits Basket; I own The Irresponsible Captain Tylor on DVD. Is the first episode good enough to entice me to watch the rest of the series? No for both. I’m not sure how either of these entrants made it into the tournament. Both are moderately fun without being particularly noteworthy. I’m more familiar with Tylor and, really, it takes a while to warm to the eponymous hero while the series only achieves greatness in later episodes. Voting for: The Irresponsible Captain Tylor because, even in the first episode, it mercilessly lampoons all things military and there just hasn’t been enough of that in recent years. Group D-6 Mawaru Penguindrum vs. Macross Frontier Viewing history: First exposure to both. Is the first episode good enough to entice me to watch the rest of the series? Yes for both. Two very impressive first episodes. After the appealing oddities of Mawaru Penguindrum I figured that a mecha / space opera wouldn’t stand a chance. To my surprise, as someone who doesn’t place a high value on action scenes, I found the first episode of Macross Frontier absolutely thrilling. I suspect that I would derive more pleasure from Mawaru Penguindrum as a series but its first episode is shaded by the more visceral enjoyment provided by Macross Frontier. Voting for: Macross Frontier Group D-7 Ouran High School Host Club vs. Kimi ni Todoke – From Me To You Viewing history: First exposure to both. Is the first episode good enough to entice me to watch the rest of the series? No for OHSHC; yes for KnT. I’m so glad that I neither read the entry write-up nor researched Ouran High School Host Club before watching it. Although Haruhi’s name and her home life roles seemed odd I was completely astonished when her real gender was revealed. I also didn’t get the light bulb gag until reading about it afterwards. I guess that makes me a filament short of an incandescent globe. Full marks to the episode for so successfully throwing me for a loop. Beyond that, the episode had little to offer, being not particularly funny, unattractive to look at, and with a tone of voice that I found unpleasant. Not so Kimi ni Todoke. Of my 28 or so first time viewings for this tournament, this has been one of the most enjoyable. That pleasure came from the character of Sawako whose misfortunes are so undeserved but whose thorough going goodness is so beguiling. That positive tone pervades the entire episode putting it at odds, thankfully, with OHSHC. Voting for: Kimi ni Todoke. Group D-8 Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit vs. Claymore Viewing history: I own Moribito: Guardian of the Spirit on DVD; I have Claymore via a fansub, although it is high on my “to buy” list. Is the first episode good enough to entice me to watch the rest of the series? Yes for both. Although I nominated both entries, this is quite easy for me. Moribito is magnificent from the beginning of the OP to the beginning of the ED (which is merely average). Although Claymore can match it at times, it falls down in the Claymore / Yoma battles, which are too shonen for my taste - in their posturing, spoken exposition and animation shortcuts. On the up side for Claymore, the relationship between Clare and Raki has a substantial (if temporary) head start over the equivalent relationship between Balsa and Chagum, although Balsa alone more than makes up for that deficiency. She is simply the coolest woman in anime, something on full display throughout the episode. Voting for: Moribito: Guardian of the Spirit. |
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Aylinn
 Posts: 1684 |
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Group D-5
Fruits Basket vs. The Irresponsible Captain Tylor The Irresponsible Captain Tylor I have never been such a big fan of Fruits Basket. I like Shigure and Akito, who make an interesting couple, but their relationship is not shown in the first episode and not even in the anime. The first episode is a decent one, but it is not that good. Tylor seems to be a funny character that I have every likelihood of liking, so he gets me vote. Group D-6 Mawaru Penguindrum vs. Macross Frontier This is an easy choice for me. Mawaru Penguindrum has the fresher, more intriguing, and bizarre first episode that makes it incredibly appealing. Apart from unmatched wackiness, the episode also has more tragic undertones. In the very first episode it subverts the trope spoiler['kill a cute girl in the first episode.'] Not only that, there are already hints of depth that suggest it will not be just a crazy comedy. MP is a brilliant blending of comedy, drama and bizarreness that works exceptionally well. Macross Frontier's first episode, by comparison, is not as fresh or original as Ikuhara's Mawaru Penguindrum. I saw it when it came out, but it didn't convince me to watch more and I haven't seen the rest of MF ever since. It has a good first episode, but I didn't blow me away like MP. MF's good first episode is not a match for MP's brilliant first episode. Besides, nothing can beat SEIZON SENRYAKUUUUUUUUUUU Group D-7 Ouran High School Host Club vs. Kimi ni Todoke – From Me To You Ouran High School Host Club because the first episode indicates it's the better show and maybe one day I'll watch it. Group D-8 Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit vs. Claymore Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit I remember the first episode of Morobito much better. Claymore has a decent beginning, but it is not as amazing and the characters are not as interesting. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18458 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Group D-5
Fruits Basket vs. The Irresponsible Captain Tylor ICT is the one first episode this week that I haven't seen yet, so my opinion may change here once I get around to seeing it. However, I have seen the first episode of Fruits Basket a handful of times and, despite its unimpressive artistry and technical merits, it made such an impression that it enticed me to watch out a series that I probably wouldn't have otherwise touched. It showed a lot of heart and genuine sentiment, introduces the premise of the series well, and firmly establishes the circumstances for the living arrangement at the core of the series. Since ICT is also hardly a shining example of technical merits, it has a lot to overcome to beat that. Group D-6 Mawaru Penguindrum vs. Macross Frontier Seen both - the former once when it first came out, the latter a couple of times over the past couple of years. In MW's case I was impressed by its sharp visuals and both artistic and thematic weirdness, which sets its well apart from more purely conventional content of MF, and gave it a 4/5 in my preview write-up (which can be seen here). It wasn't enough, however, to get me to watch out the series. Its competitor's first episode was. Macross Frontier's start may be much more ordinary in its storytelling, but that doesn't take away at all from the fact that it's a thrilling tour-de-force of music and hybrid mecha action. Doing something ordinary extraordinarily well is still worthy of respect, and that earns MF my vote here. Group D-7 Ouran High School Host Club vs. Kimi ni Todoke – From Me To You Seen both once, though neither recently. Neither has stellar technical merits, so they collide purely on storytelling. OHSHC is a funny, premise-establishing start to a funny series, but the sentiment and writing quality in Kimi ni Todoke impressed me much more; I gave it a 4.5/5 in the Preview Guide that season, after all. (See the full write-up here.) Group D-8 Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit vs. Claymore I am probably the forum's biggest fanboy of both of these series; I have rewatched Claymore more than probably any other series over the past few years, own wall scrolls for it, and even have my own fan site for it (which badly needs an update  ), while Moribito is the series that I'd probably point to if forced to pick one as the Best of the 2000s. Thus I feel that I can fairly and definitively say that Moribito's first ep is by far the superior of the two, as it beats its competition in almost every category. Claymore does a good job of establishing its lead, tone, setting, and the crucial relationship between Clare and Raki, but it doesn't escape having a typical shonen flavor. Moribito is also a bit typical in construction but much fresher and sharper in storytelling execution (if perhaps not quite as poignant) and already shows signs of involved world-building. Claymore is well above-average on its visuals, but Moribito is possibly the best-looking and best-animated anime TV series ever, and that shows clearly in this first episode. Claymore has a strong and dynamic opener, but Moribito's is, again, amongst the best.
Even though I love Claymore, this one shouldn't be close. Even at its best (which the first episode isn't), it is only barely in Moribito's league. |
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marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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Glad we have a few decisive votes for the final match, since it was one I had no initial feelings about when looking over the week's match-ups. Which means I can vote now.
Group D-5 Voting for: The Irresponsible Captain Tylor I've seen Fruits Basket but didn't really fall for it until I started reading the manga and got a bit further along in the story. The first episode isn't bad but it's not in the league of the others in the competition. It sounds like ICT might not be either but I'm going to go with it. Group D-6 Voting for: Macross Frontier Mawaru Penguindrum interested me when I first heard about it. And then it became one of the first episodes that I turned off halfway through. So again, going with the one I don't know, especially since I do at least know that the music is amazing. Group D-7 Voting for: Ouran High School Host Club I nominated OHSHC but even if I didn't, I would still be voting for it. I honestly don't see why people love Kimi ni Todoke as much as they do. It was cute and I watched a number of episodes but all and all it was just a bit dull. And that is definitely something I would never say about Ouran. Group D-8 Voting for: Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit Because even the big Claymore fans are voting this way. |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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I going to hate having to vote in D-6.
Mini-game results. Tris moves up to a first place tie with Ggultra, while Naked Beast slips back a spot. Death Note crushing Princess Tutu came as a surprise to absolutely no one, and the R.O.D. match up ended up at almost the exact same ratio as mini-game guesses. And going by the mini-game, it would have been expected that Angel Beats/Tiger & Bunny would have been the tight race, as the picks there were split evenly. Gunslinger Girl beating Utena was a bit of an upset, as the latter was favored 2-1. Edit: Redirected download link to corrected score spreadsheet. Last edited by Dorcas_Aurelia on Wed May 16, 2012 5:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18458 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Dorcas, if I'm reading that chart right then you have me down for ROD the TV. The bracket I turned in, though, has the OVA listed instead.
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Dorcas_Aurelia
Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Hmm, so I do. Must have accidentally switched it when I was making sure all the entries were identical so the lookup function would work. I'll have the corrected spreadsheet up shortly. Other people in the minigame should check that I've got them down for the correct R.O.D.
Note: I still have all the original submissions to check when something like this happens, and verified I made an error before posting. |
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farichada
 Posts: 303 Location: Wisconsin, USA |
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Key doesn't seem like a type of person who would cheat, but thank you for keeping everyone honest Dorcas_Aurelia. However, this does remind me of something. Key, it's a shame fraudulent tournament reports ended your MTG career early. My brother was a long time reader of your articles back in the day and a 5 year ban without absolute proof that you knew what was going on seems harsh, especially since the rat was just fired from his game shop and received no penalty for providing information. A five year ban is essentially a life time ban, and probably killed any motivation to play being such a competitive magic player after all. Apologies for dredging up something 11 years old, but this triggered this memory. Now that all of the years have passed, do you still stand by the your initial statement that you didn't do it? You may have benefited a few points here and there, but heck the DCI has made mistakes in my favor and against my favor and usually I never find out about it unless someone tells me. Anyone else can simply google Key's name, Theron Martin, if they want to read up on it. I don't want to give a free link to news articles that are likely lies. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18458 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Wow, haven't seen that issue come up in quite a while. Please note that the following has nothing whatsoever to do with this tournament, so skip this post if you aren't curious about the details. For those who don't know what farichada is talking about, back in the late '90s/early 2000s, when I was a borderline pro-level Magic: The Gathering player and widely-recognized writer on the tournament scene, some friends at a local store were using falsified tournament reports to boost their player ratings and decided that they'd "do me a favor" by also involving me in it. I wasn't aware that they were doing it for me - in fact, I had told them I wasn't interested when they offered to do it for me - but I got nailed anyway when their scam came to light because the authorities assumed that I was complicit even though everyone else involved (except the whistleblower) agreed that I wasn't. Aside from the whistleblower's word, the main arguments against me were that I hadn't voiced my suspicions about what my friends were doing and the investigators didn't find it credible that a player at my level wouldn't be checking his tournament records regularly enough to quickly discover something like that. I actually hadn't bothered to check my tournament record in a couple of years at that point because I knew that I wasn't close to qualifying for pro events on my player ranking (I always qualified via qualifiers), but unfortunately I had no way to prove that. (Lesson learned: if you're a pro-level player at anything, be very diligent about regularly checking your records.) The fact that I got no practical benefit from the false reports my "friends" turned in for me - whereas a couple of them qualified for pro events based heavily on the points gained from those faked tournaments - also was irrelevant to the investigators, and they didn't accept the logic that it would make no sense for me to do so while I was actively participating in other tournaments that could - and did! - hurt my rating. (The others involved weren't, for the most part.) So I got nailed just as hard as my friends did. And boy, did this create a ****storm when it came out. None of the others involved were well-known despite some of them having played in a handful of pro events (one had finished in the money once - using a deck that I designed for him, incidentally - but they hadn't been consistently successful), but I was one of the most widely-known MTG columnists at that point, so I took by far the biggest chunk of public heat. I had a lot of supporters at the time, but the flood of nasty emails I got more than balanced that out. After publicly pleading my case to no avail for a couple of weeks (it was a big enough dust-up that the top DCI official at the time even had to publicly respond, and he normally didn't do that), I got disgusted enough with the DCI's behavior on the matter that I stopped trying to fight it. Ultimately that incident did kill my enthusiasm for a game that, until that point, had been my #1 pastime for several years and into which I had put quite a lot of money. Even once the ban ended, I never seriously played in tournaments again and ended up selling most of my cards. (On the plus side, it did free up more time and money for anime and RPGs.) I've often thought since then that I might have deserved some punishment under "failure to report suspected cheating" standards, but I'm still to this day peeved that I got punished severely for something that I wasn't actually involved with and that it destroyed my reputation in the MTG community. I have even wondered if I haven't missed out on a couple of jobs over the years because news about that is still lingering on the Internet. So you can think what you want about all of that. I'm really beyond caring whether or not people believe that I was (mostly) innocent in that affair. |
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