Forum - View topicguts vs himura kenshin
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battousai_
Posts: 24 Location: bo dhabi,U.a.e |
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guts vs himura kenshin
who do u think would win ?? |
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kamiboy
 Posts: 570 Location: CA |
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Hands down Guts if I go by the first season of the Kenshin anime that is. So far we only see Kenshin fight with human opponents while Guts fights insanely strong Demons almost everyday. Kenshin might have the advantage in speed but if he doesn't finish guts in the first strike he is pretty much done for. Guts's Dragon Slayer sword would cut trough Kenshins reverse blade and Kenshin himself like a hot knife trough butter that you forgot to put in the fridge last night. I imagine that the fight between the two might play out something like the last fight between Guts and Griffith while he was still human.
The inhuman strength that Guts normally has not withstanding he still has the Berserker armour going for him, which will force Guts to fight to the last drop of blood has been drained from his body. Guts also has an impeccable ability to sustain wounds and still manage to fight on and he will do so till him or his opponents death which I cannot say about Kenshin. I am not sure if Kenshin changes his ways after the first season of Kenshin but so far he seems to lack that killer instinct that makes Guts so dangerous. If Kenshin takes Guts on he better be ready to take his life and not hold back as anything less will get him killed. Those issues aside the much larger and more varied arsenal of Guts as opposed to Kenshins deserves a mention if the fight should turn out to be a drawn out one. Himura only has his sword to go by which only makes him deadly at close distances but Guts is just as deadly from a distance. Not only does Guts have the arm canon which can kill Himura in one shot but it also has the surprise advantage as no one would normally suspect him to have something like that hidden in his fake arm. The hand operated rapid firing crossbow can also be a deadly weapon for Guts and it works over great distances. Also deserving mention are his throwing knifes and his miniature bombs, which could take Kenshin by surprise once again. Overall I doubt anyone who doesn't have superpowers could take out Guts in a fair fight unless they use a nuke or something similar. |
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kamiboy
Posts: 570 Location: CA |
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By the way to the moderators. This thread does not necessarily have to be locked if everyone writes adequately good reasons for their arguments.
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Vigilante024
 Posts: 578 Location: back. but not really. |
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well the problem with your agrument is that you are comparing Kenshin at his low to Guts at his peak. If you compared them both at their "killing peak" that would be Kenshin when he was the battousai, though it is hard to say when Kenshin is at his full potential, when he was the battousai or spoiler[when he earns the title of Hiko Seijiro] eiher way, I think Kenshin would be able to last against Guts. Furthermore, while Guts may have super human strength and endurance, he also has rage, which for Kenshin is a major bonus since anger is what kenshin uses from his opponents to defeat them and while he may not have superhuma strength he has super human speed, and also the ability to endure physucal pain to the point of death. I think it would be an even match that would go to whoever hit the other first. |
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kamiboy
Posts: 570 Location: CA |
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I would have liked to compare them to each other as Guts was in the latest Japanese manga and as Himura was at the end of his manga. Unfortunately I won't be reading the manga until I have finished the anime and I have only seen the first 26 episodes of the anime. But I am confident that even if you pit them against each other each at their peak then Guts would still emerge as the most likely winner not that it wouldn't have been a very interesting fight. At peak I mean Kenshin as Battousai and Guts with the berserker armour.
I have to disagree with Guts having a rage that can be used against him. The only person to have ever to provoke such emotions in Guts is Griffin after the first eclipse and with good reason. I think what you are describing in not rage but Guts entering an almost hypnotic battle state. The best example of this is his fight against the fairy girl in the Lost Children Arc. There we see for the first time the gruesome demonic state that Guts enters during a battle with a strong opponent. This is taken into the extreme when the Berserker armour takes control over him and turns him into a berserker, which is basically a killing machine that will attack and kill anything in its vicinity. The anger or rage that you describe is a state of mind that is undesirable for warriors as it can be used against them and force them to make hasty actions or mistakes. When Gats is in his trance Berserker state he no longer understands human speech or reason he only identifies the next target and takes it out. Furthermore I forgot to tell that Himura unlike Gats does not have any protection other than his sword while Gatsu has an armour that not only protects but also repairs certain wounds such as broken bones instantly. |
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ReIN-Karnated@042
 Posts: 35 Location: South Africa |
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I personally would give it to Gatsu, but don't count out Kenshin because correct me if I am wrong spoiler[But didn't Griffin defeat Gatsu with pace, agility and using Gatts's strengh, to griffins own advantage]?
Vigilante024 wrote:
Well if we look at at the Series, Gatsu fights from a small age and therefoe has Warrior/killing instincts that surpass most heroes or physco's! If we had to put a Bet up I would give 
6  4 In Gatsu's favor but I don't count out Kenshin because he might have a Ace up his sleeve!!! 
Last edited by ReIN-Karnated@042 on Mon Dec 27, 2004 2:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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MasterFuu
 Posts: 434 Location: Phoenix, AZ |
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The battle would only last five seconds because Kenshin would cut Gutts in half.
 The beauty in samurai battle is not the strength but speed and precision. I predict that Kenshin would evade the huge blade and cut Gutts in his vital spots very quick. If the battle for example was between "Conan-The Barbarian Vs. Gutts" that would be fair battle because both characters are well.....barbarians.  (huge men with huge swords)
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Vigilante024
Posts: 578 Location: back. but not really. |
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I'm pretty sure both Gutts and Kenshin started fighting/learning to fight around the same age, and they were both about the same age when they started making a reputation for being excellent fighters ins in their series. |
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kamiboy
Posts: 570 Location: CA |
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That was in the beginning of the manga where Griffin forced him to join the Band of the Hawk if he couldn't defeat him. Later they had a rematch and Guts won hands down and since then his strength has grown at least 10 fold maybe even 100 fold with the berserker armour.
Everyone who thinks that Guts is slow and cumbersome on account of his huge sword is forgetting two things important things. One: Despite the size of the blade Gats can still swing it around at lightning speed as is evident in the manga. Take as an example, once again, the fight against the fairy girl in the lost children arc. When she tries to impale Guts by flying towards him at close to the speed of sound he manages to shield himself with his sword at the last split of a second. Two: Even if the sword did slow Guts down he could still make a pincushion out of Himura with his bow gun before he even got close enough to take a swing. And lets not forget the canon; that would be very hard if not impossible to avoid even for Kenshin. |
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battousai_
Posts: 24 Location: bo dhabi,U.a.e |
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well guys actually in my opinion i dont think himura could beat him or cut him easily but i cant say whos gonna win
it will be an amazing fight. 
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Vigilante024
Posts: 578 Location: back. but not really. |
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well the easiest way to determin this is to see what kenshin has defeated that Guts has...
Huge heavy impossible for a normal man to wield sword...Kenshin encounteredspoiler[same againt Sano and defeated him, as well cut the sqord in half] projectiles...Kenshin spoiler[stopped Gohei's bullet as well as destroyed a gattling gun] cannon...spoiler[kenshin against a wood cannon was able to cut it in half] unreadable emotions...this has been a problem for Kenshinspoiler[ against Sou, but at the first show of any type of aggression and Kenshin was able to then read movements] and body armour...spoiler[this is the one thing that Kenshim never really defeated, in the Meiji arc Kenshin was able to dent German armour, but never was able to cut through it, only by using his final move was he ale to generate a fire tornado to burn the opponent] but against Gutts I doubt that would have any effect |
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Tony K.
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 11405 Location: Frisco, TX |
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Hm.. if by Kenshin, you mean Himura Battousai, then it should be a great match. However, it all depends on the context of which this duel is fought.
For instance, Gattsu comes from a totally different world; a world full of magic, demons, and all of that hocus pocus mumbo jumbo, whereas Kenshin comes from a somewhat more realistic world. Gattsu has the "luxury" of being in a world where you know just about anything is possible and he's used to that kind of adversity, while Kenshin is just a swordsman fighting a bunch of humans. I don't really think it's fair to compare them since one may have an advantage over the other in terms of training, skills, technology, or whatever. In a fair fight, I'd say Battousai would win. And by "fair" I mean, man to man, sword to sword; no Berserker Armor, no robotic arm that shoots automatic arrows or drops bombs, or any of that. Battousai with his katana, shotou, and wakazashi versus Gattsu and any non-superpowered sword of his choice. You can say what you want about Gattsu's strength, determination, and outright ferocity, but Himura Battousai in his prime could easily take out a guy like Gattsu (as good as he is and as much as I like him). Heck, maybe even Himura Kenshin could fight him in a fair fight. I've yet to see anyone escape an Amakakeru Ryu no Hirameki without getting hit  .
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kamiboy
Posts: 570 Location: CA |
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Doing the same for Guts: Although Guts has fought with and killed thousands of normal human swordsmen/mercenary/warriors I can only think of one person he fought who was like onto Himura Kenshin. It should come as no surprise that the one I speak of here is none other than Griffin. Griffin is no doubt the strongest mortal swordsman that Guts has so far fought against. Although they did cross blades at two different occasions and each battle went out to a different contender, they were set several years apart. In their last fight, which was when Griffin was still human, Guts won with one single swing and as I said earlier he has since grown a 100 times stronger. So judging by that I guess Guts would emerge as the clear winner, but yeah it would be an awesome fight. Maybe the mangaka of each character should do collaboration piece pitting their character against each other, but then they would prolly get in a fight over whose character should win. Now deciding who would win that fight would be interesting and much more difficult. |
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kamiboy
Posts: 570 Location: CA |
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Yes but the only magical item that Guts uses is his berserker armour, throw that away and he still has a lot more going for him.
Wait a second you call that fair? You are stripping Guts of his entire arsenal because they are not fair? What about those secret sword techniques of Himura? They are just as bit magical, unrealistic or unfair as anything Guts is carrying around with him. I'd be willing to throw away the Berserker armour but I won't admit that it would be a fair fight if you threw anything else away. Guts doesn't have any secret sword technique like Kenshin so he relies more on his equipment. Besides we are not looking to make this a fair fight but decide who would win if they ever had a chance meeting on a highway somewhere. It could play out something like this: Guts: Hora! You the slightly effeminate longhaired swordsman over there. You look like someone I hate and I’m having a really shitty day. My girlfriend is a crazy bItc* who is reduced to only communicating through indecipherable moans and hasn’t let me touch her in months. To make things worst I am being followed around by an annoying brat that only hangs around me to steal my secret sword techniques, of which I have none. Not to mention that creepy pyromaniac groupie chick that has been clinging to me ever since she was possessed by an evil spirit that forced her to do all sorts of weird shit like coming on to me, man that was awkward. To add insult to injury that chick is being followed around by her sly half brother who, due to his quasai incestuous love for her, would cut my throat in my sleep if anything bad ever happened his half sister. Oh and by the way keep quite about him being her half brother and all that will you, it is suppose to be a secret. Oh an also there is this young witch apprentice with a father complex for me and that pest of a fairy. And I won’t even mention the monsters attacking me left and right every night, the my killing my foster father and the death of my only true friends in the eclipse. You are the straw hat that broke the camels back mister, prepare to die! Himura: Maa, maa. Kore zenbu de ore ni kankei nai de gozaru yo. Guts: We could have sat down and had a civilized conversation about this and worked our difference out. But unfortunately we are currently in a medieval Europe like world where nobody knows how to speak Japanese, buster. Besides I usually let my sword do the talking now have at you! Himura: Orooooooo! And fighting ensues. But even if they were to meet on these (un)equal terms you suggest I will only reference to my banter about the Guts vs Griffin fight as a realistic template for the outcome. But that is just my personal opinion. Last edited by kamiboy on Mon Dec 27, 2004 7:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tony K.
Subscriber Moderator Posts: 11405 Location: Frisco, TX |
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Sure, if you put it that way, Gattsu has an advantage. But you said you've only seen the first season of Kenshin. Just wait till you see his scirmish with Saitou in the Kyoto arc. 
But getting back to the whole Hiten Mitsurugi stuff, I suppose that too provides Kenshin with the advantage, but aside from being able to jump several dozen feet into the air and draw his sword at superhuman speed, it just seems a tad more realistic than a guy being as strong as Gattsu who is able to carry around such a gigantic piece of metal. I mean, with just the physical attributes kept in mind, it would basically be "speed versus strength," and I'm sure as good as Gattsu is, since he faced a finesse fighter like Griffith, fighting Kenshin would be about the same. But then again, when Griffith lost to Gattsu, he wasn't quite on top of his game (at least from what I remember in the anime, haven't read the manga  ).
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