Forum - View topicOhayocon and fansubs
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Zeiram
 Posts: 317 |
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http://www.fansview.com/2004/ohayocon/012404a.htm
fansubs have been unabashadley, utterly, and officially condemned by funimation, adv and manga. hmm... dang good reason for it too, why have I forgotten this aspect? I know how to fix it though, dumb down the quality of the fan subs, all available, maken em tiny so people like me with a 56k can get em etc. |
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Legato 2057
 Posts: 437 Location: Soon to be Japan |
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Interesting discussion.
But your solution is impossible. Not everyone cares about the American anime industry. There are many fansubs sites and dvd ripping sites that offer liscensed series (usually off of Bit Torrent or MIRC). If I wanted to, I could download all of Trigun, Beebop, Gasaraki and many more. Some sites even offer seperate ripped video files. One for the English and the other for the Japanese audio (I saw one for Trigun yestersay). |
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Ventile
Posts: 40 Location: teh Netherlands |
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I'm a major fan and supporter of fansubs for the main reason that I see it as _the_ alternative to going to Japan and watch the anime on TV over there. If the Japanese people can watch it for 'free', of course they have to pay for the cable costs but so do we for our television, why shouldn't we be able to? I also find ADV's argument that fansubs are being turned into bootlegs and then sold to the American market a bit hypocrite, as the same happens to their own releases. Anyone with a heart for anime will buy the legit releases anyway if they like an anime.
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Cassandra
 Posts: 1356 Location: Birdsboro, PA |
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This is the part I don't agree with so much. If it were true, I think we'd hear about Kodomo no Omocha or Rose of Versailles or Violinist of Hamelin being licensed. Granted, there are things being fansubbed that shouldn't be because it's just KNOWN that they will come over. (Ghost in the Shell: SAC for example.) But there are a ton of older titles that aren't likely to be licensed. |
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Godaistudios
Posts: 2075 Location: Albuquerque, NM (the land of entrapment) |
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As businesses go, they must be ironclad in their resolve. Yes, it is arrogant to say that if it's being produced, it will come over. At the same time, I'd like to ask ADV where Kaleido Star is? After all, they helped co-produced it, and it was mentioned over a year and a half ago. Yet there still remains the lack of any official announcement as to the series having a U.S. release.
Older shows are out there, and the businesses won't admit that they have less interest in them. But who can blame them? They are still out to make money, and that can only be done by getting the hot and popular properties. If nobody did fansub anything for the next year, I wonder if those properties would be hot enough for them to sell as much as they think they could/would sell. |
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Legato 2057
Posts: 437 Location: Soon to be Japan |
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I think Matt Greenfield's remark was aimed at the newer series, not the older series. My interpretaion: If an anime is being aired in Japan right now (or in the last few years) then it is going to be liscensed eventually. I agree that older shows like Rose of Versailes, Condor Hero will probably not be liscensed .
Tony K. you misinterpreted what I said. I did not say that you should download fansubs (that's a decision you make on your own). What I was trying to say was that too many people don't care, so these bootleggers will always exist. |
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Scaramanga
Posts: 135 Location: San Diego, CA |
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There's been a heated discussion regarding the fansub vs. bootleg debate over in Anime. And I think all my points about this topic are there.
However, there are quite a few series' that will never be licensed or released in the West (Kiminozo comes to mind.) As far as their concerns that fansubs are being used to make bootlegs, long after fansubs are gone there will still be bootlegs (because there is a market for it.) Personally, without being able to watch the plethora of series' that I'm able to via fansubs, I wouldn't buy nearly as many when they're released for R1. I'm sorry, I'm not as willing as some otaku to pay ridiculous amounts of money for crappy shows. Although Zac certainly helps i nthat area as well. 
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Ventile
Posts: 40 Location: teh Netherlands |
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That's like saying "Don't watch the X-files on TV, it's going to be released on DVD anyway." If it were a fansubless world I would've bought Ninja Scroll TV on DVD, mainly because I just loved the movie and extrapolating from that I would think that the TV adaptation would be great as well. But, as fansubs do exist and I got the chance to watch it for free first, I found out that this anime just can't get much crappier, and so it saves my quite a few bucks. I'm also happily downloading and watching the GITS SAC fansubs, because I love the show and can't wait for the legit DVDs. But when the DVDs do come, I'll buy 'm. People who buy bootlegs won't be much inclined to buy legit releases anyway. Take away the bootlegs and they won't buy anything at all. That just won't change the situation for the industry. Of course I regret the existence of the bootlegs, not because of the people who buy 'm, but because of the people who produce them and make money off of something for which they have no credit whatsoever. |
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Zeiram
Posts: 317 |
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This is not a debate over american bootlegs, but asian bootlegs. The sales lost are theirs.
Keep that in mind, k? I've already gone through the other side of the debate ^^. |
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Ventile
Posts: 40 Location: teh Netherlands |
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would you be so kind as to explain the difference?
American bootlegs would be fansubs on DVD and... Asian bootlegs would be fansubs on DVD? They're both all over the world anyway, so unless you're thinking of another difference I don't see any :p |
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Cassandra
Posts: 1356 Location: Birdsboro, PA |
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It's not like saying that at all. Watching X-Files on TV...the companies get their money through the commercials that you watch and the products that you buy. Buying the DVDs, they get the money from that. Downloading them....the companies get nothing. They are losing money because they had to shell out the money to make the show and they don't recoup it from the advertisers. It's completely different than fansubs. |
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Ventile
Posts: 40 Location: teh Netherlands |
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I was hoping you wouldn't bring that up and I thought of that myself, but watching commercials just don't compare to buying the actual DVDs if you ask me. The commercials may earn a lot of money for the broadcasting companies, but there's no direct relation to your appreciation of a series. Don't tell me you feel that you've done enough to support a series you love by watching the commercials that are shown throughout the running time of those series?
The only real appreciation for a product comes from buying it. I realise that you might think differently, but this is just how I feel about it. |
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Cassandra
Posts: 1356 Location: Birdsboro, PA |
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If it's a series I love, I'd be buying everything I can. However, this isn't about love of a series...it's about financial support. The companies are losing money from fansubs. And a lot of people who download fansubs and "love" the series don't buy the legit versions. THAT is the problem. If they watched it on TV, the commercials support the series. If they download it, the commercials aren't there, the people aren't buying the legit versions (or anything else basically) and the company loses money. Those are the people screwing it up for everyone else. |
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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Hmmm. A case of the pouchers' turning game keepers. If history serves me well, all three of them started life as "fansubbers". and went legit with licencing deals. Anyway the DVD is changing the visual media industry logarithmically. It's come to the point that it's turned into the tail that's wagging the dog. More and more, the income from disk sales is out doing boxoffice and rental income to the point that more studios are starting to modify the usual marketing ploy of theatre, then disk rentals, then sales. They are now releasing the DVD almost at the same time as their theatre release, much to the worry of the likes of Blockbuster, etc.
On the question of fansubs, when the anime studios in Japan finally wake up to the amount of profit lost to fansubs/bootlegs they need only start subbing their own productions before they are released and get a tarif placed on any outside importing to protect their own market. They have to realise it's no good yelling at the pirates if they are not themselves willing to do something about it in house. |
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Zeiram
Posts: 317 |
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Well I just figure that the fan subs we do are making it more widely available than the raws so then there are far more copies of the original language which many asian may know and sell. That would be the difference ^^. I don't just mean Hong Kong either. Theya re copying american releases down to the copyright information. That needs some enforcement.
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