Forum - View topicRahXephon (TV).
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bldrnnr
 Posts: 7 Location: Puyallup, WA USA |
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How did you find this out? It is extremely helpful, yet I wonder if I was missing something throughout the whole series. I am sure it takes more than one viewing, but how many becomes the question. Is there a website somewhere or an article that explains the complexities of this series or do I just don't have enough time to understand it. I am still unclear on alot of evangelion, but there seems to be alot more resources out there to help one sort it out to a certain extent. Where as with Rahxephon, I have read everything even the so called "Bible" and I am no where near understanding it all. There only seems to be one website out there and it is outdated because of lack of interest: http://www.escaflowneonline.com/rahxephon/ Now, don't get me wrong I love this series to death, but this thread has turned me upside down in terms of what I thought I knew and now I what to know more. Can anyone point me to some articles that are online or anything that might answer some the questions I still have concerning this series. There has to be something out there that explains alot of this...HELP! |
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chevisan
Posts: 22 Location: Uruguay |
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Well, I find this "facts" after watching the series 2 times and maratoning it in 4 days. I don't know if you can find this information in the web, sorry. And i can't get the Bible where i live (Southamerica).
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bldrnnr
Posts: 7 Location: Puyallup, WA USA |
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Man, I wish I had that kind of time! You are not missing much from the Bible. It is informative, yet I found it to cover only half of the episodes in the so called mysteries section...I hope there is a second version coming out. Did anyone find the Bible helpdful (Am I right that it felt like it only covered half the episodes in the mysteries section as well as being extremely difficult to understand)? Plus, does anyone know of more resources for Rahxephon? Thanks!!!! |
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Macross3000
Posts: 29 |
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Believe me...you are not the only one to have trouble understanding this anime! I go to my anime shop often and sometimes Rahxephon will come up in conversations and they will always refer to it as "that anime that confuses the hell out of you..."
All I can say is that, sometimes, it is nice to be able to step back from series like Evangelion and Rahzephon and look at from a mainstream perspective. That way, you won't feel as bad when a true hardcore fan hits you upside the head with revelations that are delivered in a less than polite or in considerate way. I've had some bad experiences with some devoted fans. All I can say is that there are still things I don't understand about Rahxephon, but I'm actually happy about that since knowing the series so intimately may be a sign of losing touch with a more desirable social perspective...to me at least. |
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chevisan
Posts: 22 Location: Uruguay |
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Well there is some small things i don't understand too!!
I liked Rah a lot but i'm not a devoted fan i think. I only watched it 2 times. Maybe i get a lot things after watching it because i'm a bit old already  .
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mpchi
Posts: 54 |
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Wow! Very good info! This discussion did help me like the series more than before. Even though I've watched episodes 1-23 twice, and the rest of the episodes once, I wasn't able to figure out many of the pieces you guys have mentioned.
spoiler[I kind of understand at the end that Bahbem was the mastermind behind the whole world tuning thing, but the relationship between him and Mu was never very clear to me. Nor does the existence of Quon. I couldn't even figure out what everybody is fighting for at the end on both side. I have to admit that I haven't given as much thought into it while watching. And I totally didn't get the part that all people in Tokyo Jupiter is turning into Mulians, causing so many dolems to appear. Just watching it from a surface level, the series tend to mask its deeper plot by convincing the viewer to believe that the Mulians are bad or evil...at least in an ambiguous way. Seeing Rahxephon kick so many dolem's butt one episode after another really gave me the illusion of Ayato fighting off bad guys. And as we see more and more of the dolems towards the end, it almost feel like they slowly had taken control of Tokyo Jupiter, and is going to expand their territory to the outside world. But then, you'll see some questionable dialoques later on from Maya and company that doesn't quite fit in with the 'conqueror' stance, as they even sometimes doubt themselves of doing the right thing. Who would have thought, its the other way around, being the outside world (fooled by Bahbem) is the one trying to invade Tokyo Jupiter to get Ayato out and crushing the Mu with Rahxephon & tune the world. The good & evil roles were switched...well, sort of.(Really, there isn't really definite good or evil portrayed in this series, but you know what I mean).] At first, I regarded this series as a good TV show with high production value, but wasn't too fulfilling after finishing it for some reason. Now I understand why, as I missed some of the biggest plot (too well hidden) in this series.  I think I'll rewatch my DVDs sometime soon.
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halostryke
Posts: 26 |
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I finshed watching teh series a few weeks ago and I still have soem ?'s about it.
What was the whole spoiler[ music tuning the world thing about?] Why did the mu come to begin with? What was that black egg about? What was Quon's importance to begin with? spoiler[ How did Haruka ( i think that is her name) contol a dolem without a hekmet?] spoiler[ Why did the barrier have to slow down time?] spoiler[ How were teh Mu able to contol teh masses inside tokyo jupiter?] spoiler[ what was teh event that the old guy waited for, that he had to clone people to live so long?] spoiler[ What is the significance of music in teh anime?] i know i have more, but that is all teh i could think of at teh moment. What was yout favorite episode? Mine was episode 11 when spoiler[ Ayato was living a fantasy and he was basically in a neo/ morpheus red/blue pill moment.] Edit: What was that whole spoiler[ Ixtli and Yolteol thing about?] |
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Kazuki-san
 Posts: 2251 Location: Houston, TX |
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I can't answer all of your questions because it's been awhile since I've seen it but...
spoiler[The tuning of the world was designed to bring either peace or destruction to the world. Basically if the song of destruction was sung (Quon's song) then mankind would come to and end and the world would turn into the world of the Mu. (The Mu are from a different diminsion, so they are trying to turn the world into a place they can belong.) If the song of life (I think it was called the song of life) is sung (Ayato's) then the world be a place for humans not for the mu. The black egg is the egg that contains the Xephon that Quon is the instrumentalist of. The white egg is the egg that Ayato's Xephon is first encased in before he leaves Tokyo Jupiter. Quon is a mu that was first sent to earth with Lord Babhem, although she has been "sleeping" ever since. She is waiting for Ayato before she awakens, so that they may tune the world. Since she is a mu, she at first trys to sing the song of destruction, but after being with Ayato in the kinda dream world he had, she realizes that the song of life was better. Haraku never controlled a dolem, are you perhaps speaking of Asahina? The girl Ayato brought back from Tokyo Jupiter but later her dolem appeared and when Ayato destroyed it he killed her? The people you see in Tokyo Jupiter with the helmets are the actual Mu, as Ayato's mom says, only a few Mu can actually exist in the world the way it currently was setup. The Mu are actually humans who have a connection to the Mu in the diminesion they come from. So the people with the helmets are the "Spirits" of the Mu if you will, the physical people have no idea that they are controlling a dolemn (which means that whenever Ayato destroys a dolemn, a human in Tokyo Jupiter dies) They were able to control the people in Tokyo Jupiter through mind control, most likely through the use of the "Spirital" Mu, everyone in Tokyo Jupiter is a Mu. Babhem (the old guy) designed the RahXephon system so that he could turn the world into a place that the Mu could live (he was the first Mu brought to earth, along with Quon) I'm not sure why time slowed down in Tokyo Jupiter (perhaps because that area was artificially created as a stopgap between the Mu dimension and the earth, the Mu could kinda exist there or something) The music is important because it's talking about the harmony of the world in a way. Like how good music seems to fit right, and bad music just grates on the ears. It's about skewing the harmony of the earth towards good or evil (humans or mu) That's probably not the best way to say it, but that's the best I can describe it. Ixtli is the name of the "Spirit" of Ayato's Xephon. Yoleotl is what happens when Quon and Ayaton "awaken" and become one with their Xephons, when the gain the title of "Rah" and have the power to tune the world. ]Ok, well that was really long, I hoped it helped Also, you should see the movie when it is released on 7/20. It takes a look at the whole series from a different perspective giving answers not given in the series Last edited by Kazuki-san on Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:14 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Vigilante024
 Posts: 578 Location: back. but not really. |
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well...here are a few answers if I can recall correctly...
the balck egg= Ayato's xephon came from a white egg, the black egg also held a xephon that was the opposite to ayato's and Quon is spoiler[Ayato's opposite. in the last few eps. you'll notice that Ayato wears white while Quon wears black. they are essentially the same person but opposites, black white, male female.] the barrierspoiler[slowed down time to keep Ayato a teenager. the barrier was created tonurture Ayato a certain way, and if you recall when he left the barrier things inside started going weird since the world inside the barrier was created by the Mu to raise and control Ayato. without him in there there was no purpose for the people inside. And since the world insde was created to nurture Ayato, you should note that Ayato's memory was altered so that he would grow up as they wanted him too. They altered the minds of the people insde Tokyo Jupiter too to control them.] the event teh old guyspoiler[was waiting for was the struggle between Quon and Ayato to see how the world would be shaped. it's kinda like a evolution with "gods" type thing...] and spoiler[the music tuning the world thing is what the whole series is based on, the idea that music and harmonization can bring about a change to the world. and the Ixitl and stuff are just names (maybe based on myth or made up) that are used for the Mu's definition of what is happening and who the "savoir" is] |
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halostryke
Posts: 26 |
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thanks Kazuki-san and Vigilante024 that clears quite a few things up for me, so how many times did u watch the series to catch all that
 ?
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mpchi
Posts: 54 |
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I remember I read an older Rahxephon thread here that gave the series an even deeper dimension on the plot, as a number of others contributed.
From what I roughly remember: spoiler[Bahbem was a human from long ago that has some sort of relationship with the Mulians. He stole the Mu technology to develop the whole Rahxephon System to tune the world, kind of like playing God. On the other hand, Mu was on the opposite side, keeping Ayato within Tokyo Jupiter from Bahbem's hand. However, TERRA on the other hand was thrown in the middle, thinking the Mulians were just invaders from a different dimension, and knowing Ayato being a key person, but without knowing the big picture. So after Haruka snatched Ayato out of Tokyo Jupiter, the whole situation went chaotic, which lead to the world tuning that Bahbem wants. This kind of put an interesting twist to Mu and Maya as the Mulians were mostly portrayed as the bad guys, but turn out to be just a race with its own agenda (while Kuki used Mu's military power and caused the big battle later on) and tried to protect Ayato from the tuning thing.] But again, these are rough ideas I recall from the old thread, and I may have got some facts wrong, so forgive me if I do. Maybe you can do a search to dig it up. |
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Kazuki-san
Posts: 2251 Location: Houston, TX |
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Well spoiler[in the RahXephon movie, Babhem explains that he is the first Mulian to come to earth. (along with Quon). The Mu did want the tuning to happen, but they did not want it to happen as early as it did. ] I watched the series about 5 or 6 times, and the movie 3 or 4 before it became as clear to me as it is now. |
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zhuang
 Posts: 8 |
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here's what i can explain about "ixtli" and "yoltéotl" and the role of music in rahxephon (plus spoiler[the mayan outfits worn by maya and mamoru nearing the end of the series]) - they're all related:
rahxephon uses as its foundation the mesoamerican myth of the five suns. the myth of the five suns is the creation/eschatological myth from which the mayans, aztecs and other mesoamericans based their calendar systems. according to this myth, the world has already been created and destroyed four times. the current world, that of the fifth sun, will end on the winter solstice of the year 2012, that is 21 december 2012. (in rahxephon, the date 28 december is wrong. and we don't have to concern ourselves with the first four suns, as they aren't relevant to the story.) the fifth sun was born on 4-ollin of the mayan/aztec calendar. in nahuatl (the language of the aztecs and mayans), ollin translates to "day" or "movement", the movement of the sun's path and seismic movement; the symbol 4-ollin also means earthquake. thus, the fifth sun is called ollintonatiuh or the "sun of movement." this current world will fall victim to famine and earthquakes leading to its inevitable demise. each episode of rahxephn is called a movement - in music terminology, a movement refers to a section of music that has its own key, rhythmic structure and themes and is part of an extended musical composition. one can also think of a movement in terms of a musical cycle, as the end of one movement leads to the beginning of another. spoiler[ayato and quon are "instrumentalists," both are referred to as ollin and fated to "tune" the world, bring it to the next movement - in other words, destroy this world and give rise to a new world.] ixtli means "face" or "personality." yoltéotl translates to "deified heart," "heart of all" or "heart of artist/seer." it derives from the word yóllotl, which means "heart" and symbolizes life/dynamism. both yoltéotl and yóllotl have the same root as the word ollin. in the nahuatl language, two words can be juxtaposed to express a different meaning: ixtli, yóllotl ("faces and hearts") refers to a person's intrinsic self - one's personality or "face" developed through learning and through one's "heart" or life. thus, for ayato (and quon) to mature and figure out what kind of person he is, he must attain yoltéotl. to do that, he must combine ixtli and yóllotl (just as those words are combined in the nahuatl language). he has yóllotl, but he still has to develop his own personality or ixtli. ixtli appears in the metaphorical form of mishima spoiler[(reika/haruka)]. why mishima? spoiler[recall that ayato's memories were altered while he remained within tokyo jupiter after the mu war - the image of a girl named mishima in a yellow dress and ribbon standing upon a rock by the beach was the only thought left unchanged. ayato's true memories and personality are thus represented by his memory of mishima, the only thing he retains of his former self.] if anyone wants, i can cite my sources. there's more to be said about rahxephon in general - this series has so much more depth than a lot of other series that have been released in the past 4 years. i love it! |
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mpchi
Posts: 54 |
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That's some very interesting info! They do seem to fit very well with the plot, given these as the mayan background that Rahxephon is based on.
But one thing I don't quite understand, at least it doesn't seem clear to me. spoiler[At the end, when we see a grown up Ayato & Haruka living happily ever after, was it reality in the new world created by Ayato, or was it just a 'dream' of what Ayato would hope for, but is all in his head? It does seem hard to comprehend cause Haruka actually died right before Ayato(He killed her actually) when that blue plane exploded. Yet Haruka had this conversation with Maya soon after, as if a "my body is gone, but my spirit still remain" kind of thing going on. Then we see Ayato remembering some of his pass memories with Haruka, and then we see that happy ending. Not too sure if its a real thing happening or an imaginery thing like in Evangelion's TV ending.] |
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Kazuki-san
Posts: 2251 Location: Houston, TX |
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Well actually there is a contradiction between the series and the movie in this case MOVIE spoiler[The movie is a retelling of the series from different points of view not shown in the series. It also gives away answers not given in the series. At the end of the movie, we see Haruka as an old woman, Reika is now Reika Kamina and Haruka is her grandmother. Haruka tells her stories about Ayato. In the movie, Ayato in the end is NOT human, and can never return to being human. He still comes to visit Haruka, but he can't stay there permanently. So I can't really say what happens at the end of the series, considering the end of the movie is so different.] |
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