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NHK ni Youkoso! (Welcome to the NHK)


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Pleroma



Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Posts: 443
Location: Eromanga island
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:45 pm Reply with quote
selenta wrote:
I'm not sure whether I should laugh or cry in shame that the game I logged 120 play days in over the course of ~400 real days was featured in a show like NHK (and hardly in a 'subtle' way. Everything was there, from the mithra to Tavnazia and Jeuno Laughing). All I did was eat, sleep, go to class, play FFXI... Huh, this is sounding familiar.

Either way, the FFXI references had me cracking up. Eps 15 was a darn good one.


Haha you too eh?

I was pretty impressed by the dead on reproduction of it all. I was finally able to quit about 5 month ago and all it took was endless BLU frustration and lots of broken linkshells. At least I actually pulled off satou's goal at the end and made about $1000 on a blowout sale Cool

Its a shame the HNK anime is not nearly as wacky as the manga gets, but seeing how it can also get viciously depressing that may be a good thing.
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selenta
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Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 1774
Location: Seattle, WA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:39 pm Reply with quote
Yeah, I shoulda sold my character, I coulda made at least 400 dollars just from the character, and probably another 300 or so from the gil (I don't know, however many $$ I could've gotten for ~200 million gil). It would have been funny if I'd told everyone before I sold my character, that way when the person bought it, the entire server could proceed to completely ignore him Anime catgrin
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TcDohl



Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Posts: 82
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:01 am Reply with quote
adonais wrote:
I'd love to read that Shocked


You asked for it. Here it is, but only the part about hikikomori. The first part, I did on the British NEET experience, which it referenced a couple of times. I'll omit the citations and references for obvious reasons. Oh, and by the way, if anyone tries to copy this, I'll come after you, and I'll be forced to ritually disembowl you. And if you find any errors, please inform me, so I may make corrections.

For many years, the Japanese establishment and society have denied the existence of a group of people whose ranks have grown since the 1990s. This group is described as those who stay in their rooms, afraid of the outside world, and economically dependent on their parents. This subset of NEETs in Japan are known as hikikomori (引き篭り, lit. to pull away and to retreat). This denial persisted until a group of parents of hikikomori pressured the establishment to recognize the existence of this phenomenon in 2001. Since then, there have been estimates between 410 000 to 1 million hikikomori in Japan, 80 percent of them are males . This following section will look at the societal and economic causes of hikikomori.

Michael Zielenziger writes in his book Shutting Out the Sun that the main societal reason for the rise of the hikikomori is the pre-feudal notion of dependent collectivism, preserved through Japan's feudal era as a way for the military government to control both serf and noble alike, that is utterly hegemonic in Japanese society . From an early age, children are taught to fit in, to meld themselves into harmonious, purposeful groups. For those who do not or refuse to fit in face ostracism with a systematic form of bullying from early school age all the way through adulthood. This hegemony is this reason that Japan has never been through any political or gender revolutions, nor had there ever been a period intellectual enlightenment, or had produced a true civil society . Though every aspect of Japanese life may be thoroughly modern, Japanese society never sought to understand the history and process in which their modernity was created in the West. Particularly, the notions of individualism, accountability, self-expression, and risk-taking were instrumental in the creation of a modern liberal democratic society. Another study has shown that the social withdrawal was itself a strategy to defend and retain the hikikomori’s dignity and self-esteem . With this context in mind, it is not surprising that all of the hikikomori that Zielenziger interviews in Shutting Out the Sun have a strong sense of individualism and self-awareness .

Another consequence of the dependent collectivist hegemony is the way that the educational system is run and how it would sabotage those with individualist tendencies as well as those who are not able to cope with the system itself. The teaching method of Japanese state schools is that of rote learning, which would quash critical thinking skills, as well as analysis, creativity, and reasoning . Those who do not do well in this system are taught that they are not exerting enough effort, as the prevailing idea in Japanese education is that everyone has the same abilities, and the problem lies in the amount of effort . Those who do not do well in the rote learning system as well as those who “stick out” are often subjected to the most cruel forms of psychological and physical bullying, which does not only ostracize, but lead those who are bullied to long and persistent periods of truancy , and as mentioned previously, truancy is a factor that leads to becoming a NEET. Teachers rarely intervene in these situations as it is viewed as an incentive for non-conforming students to conform, and neither do parents get involved as the prevailing thought is that their child had done something to deserve such a treatment .

Similar to the British example, those who become hikikomori who wish to return to society find that this is very difficult, as Japan’s inflexible job market becomes more inflexible. The main recruitment method for full-time employment in Japan is the fostering of a relationship between a school (university or high school) and an employer. From this relationship, the employer would try to recruit as many students as they can from every graduating class . This system places hikikomori at a great disadvantage as they are all NEETs and therefore are not able to utilize the system. Degree inflation starts to take hold as the market for high school-educated employees rapidly evaporate since 1992 . This phenomenon only further disadvantages hikikomori as they hold little formal credentials to qualify for employment, and many of whom are middle or high school dropouts. In essence, hikikomori who want a way out are hamstrung by the system, which leads them to continue their cloistered lives.


Edited for spacing, clarity.
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adonais



Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 302
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:45 am Reply with quote
TcDohl wrote:
You asked for it. Here it is, but only the part about hikikomori.

Hey thanks, that's interesting. I guess the first question that comes to my mind is, can Japanese social security do nothing for the hikikomori? You make it sound like they're offset from the system somehow, at which point I have to admit that I don't know the first thing about the japanese system. Also, what distinguishes the hikikomori from the NEET; is it mainly the psychological aspect of them turning into an anti-social recluse besides?

EDIT: I just noticed that Wikipedia has a fairly meaty section on hikikomori, I guess I can read up on it myself, no need to spend more of your time educating me. Thanks for sharing your write-up though.
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PantsGoblin
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:14 pm Reply with quote
Why?... Why was I not watching this anime before? Actually, I thought it was kind of crazy parody/harem for some reason, so I thought it could wait... If I knew what it truely had to do with, I would have been watching this anime from the start...

Not specifically about the anime, but my views on hikikomori and the related otaku:

As I've mentioned before in two other threads, it is my belief that both hikikomori and otaku are both strongly connected to Pervasive Developmental Disorders, in particularly, Aspergers. If you read Wiki's article, you will notice that the similarites are undeniable. I myself am diagnosed with Aspergers, so I have found great interest in this anime. Actually, it's probably my favorite anime of the year so far... I didn't think it would be able to beat out Higurashi, but it looks like it has...

As far as the anime itself... I feel I am able to connect with Satou on an interpersonal level in many of the situations he has encountered... Actually, a few scenes have brought me tears because of this... Although, Satou also seems to be suffering from depression, something which I have never gone through... I have gone through some rather traumatic situations in school (mainly middle school and high school) as a result bullying, people making fun of me, etc...

Although, I think one thing that greatly helped in me overcoming some of my social difficulties is attending a school specifically designed for children with social difficulties (mostly autism and Aspergers). I attended the school shortly after a certain situation in high school which I will not speak of...

I don't know if Japan has any kind of schools like these, but I think it would help... also, medication helps... it's something that I notice (of what is shown at least) that Satou does not do...

I think the phenomenon of hikikomori has a lot to do with Japan's educational system and the way they put so much pressure on students... also, I don't really hear much of these parents of hikikomori doing much about their children... it seems that many of them ignore it and/or deny their existance... this is truely a shame, because I do think it is a problem that can be overcame with the help of theopy and/or medication, and by other means...

It is my true belief that if my parents weren't to help me at all with my social problems and/or deny its existance, that there would have been a great possibility that I would have ended up being something like a hikikomori... I am thankful that I have a job and am going to school and do have friends (ugh, no girlfriend yet though...)...
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TcDohl



Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Posts: 82
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:10 am Reply with quote
Oh, before anyone bags me for academic misconduct, that essay was made by Jan Anthony Mendoza, completed on the same date as it was posted, which was the 6th of November, 2006.

Now that we got that out of the way, I think it's a little convenient to blame Asperger's for the hikikomori phenomenon. In Zielenziger's book, Shutting Out the Sun, the author interviews many hikikomori. One in particular said that he was a well adjusted person when he left the country, which meant that Japanese society was mostly to blame. Though I think though many of those with Asperger's do indeed become hikikomori, a large chunk of them, possibly a majority are normal people but with a highly developed sense of individuality and resistance to conformity.

One aspect of NHK that I don't like is the amount of blaming the victim it has in it. I find that Sato's gullibility is contrary to my findings about hikikomori, as they are often skeptical of what others say. Also, contrary to their depiction in NHK, only 10% of hikikomori use the internet, concurrent with Japan's relatively low rate of computer literacy and broadband penetration.

Now, having done some research on hikikomori, I felt that had I grown up in Japan, within the confines of the Japanese educational system and Japanese society, I would have become a hikikomori as well.
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adonais



Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 302
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:25 am Reply with quote
TcDohl wrote:
One aspect of NHK that I don't like is the amount of blaming the victim it has in it. I find that Sato's gullibility is contrary to my findings about hikikomori

That's because it's all a conspiracy....inbouuuu.. Wink
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PantsGoblin
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:35 am Reply with quote
TcDohl wrote:
Now that we got that out of the way, I think it's a little convenient to blame Asperger's for the hikikomori phenomenon.


Well, I wasn't really blaming it... I just think it is often the one of the causes of it... and I don't think I'm wrong in saying so... since the connections seem obvious to me... but that's just me I guess. But it is still something I strongly believe. And I think there have been proven connections...

Quote:
Also, contrary to their depiction in NHK, only 10% of hikikomori use the internet, concurrent with Japan's relatively low rate of computer literacy and broadband penetration.


Now, this I find surprising. Are you able provide some source for that? Because when I went to Japan, I got the impression that most people knew how to use computers. I mean, they even have internet cafes everywhere... It could have just been because I was mainly in Tokyo though. I don't remember seeing that many (if any) internet cafes in Kyoto... Still, I find it hard to believe that Japan has a low computer literacy rate...
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marie-antoinette



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 4136
Location: Ottawa, Canada
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:17 am Reply with quote
TcDohl wrote:

One aspect of NHK that I don't like is the amount of blaming the victim it has in it. I find that Sato's gullibility is contrary to my findings about hikikomori, as they are often skeptical of what others say.


I think the reason Satou might not follow every aspect of the "typical" hikokomori might be because I think in many ways he really isn't a hikokomori. Yes, he certainly is living the lifestyle, but he also does manage to connect with people and is becoming more and more able to leave his apartment for that purpose.

I also agree that just calling it Asperger's seems a bit too tidy, though I'm sure there are cases where it does come into play. But the fact that other countries have Aspergers and don't have quite the same phenomenon going suggests that there certainly is more going on behind the scenes.
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TcDohl



Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Posts: 82
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:19 am Reply with quote
PantsGoblin wrote:
I got the impression that most people knew how to use computers.


Tamaki Saito, the foremost expert on hikikomori, was the one that gave the figure of 10%. You can find this in Shutting Out the Sun, page 56, 223.

And I said relatively low, as in relative to the developed nations. And computer education was not a required course until very recently in the state school system as it did not get you to pass your university entrance exam. Japanese corporations also did not trust the internet as it gives the individual too much power, and did not initially use it to the extent the rest of the world did, and are still very suspicious of computers.
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PantsGoblin
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:56 pm Reply with quote
marie-antoinette wrote:
I also agree that just calling it Asperger's seems a bit too tidy, though I'm sure there are cases where it does come into play.


Oh, I'm not saying that that's the sole reason it exists... I just think it (not only Aspergers though) is one of the major causes of hikikomori, but definately not the sole.

marie-antoinette wrote:
But the fact that other countries have Aspergers and don't have quite the same phenomenon going suggests that there certainly is more going on behind the scenes.


As I said before, I believe that's because the Japanese just don't treat it and/or just refuse it exists.

I don't know a whole bunch about the Japanese education system, but from what I've experienced and seen, they don't have any type of "special education" at all, or at least, very little. Compared to the US, which I know definately does has this type of education. Would that be incorrect?

Also, this part from Wiki also supports what I think...

Wikipedia wrote:
Lastly, it should be noted that the hikikomori phenomenon is similar to the symptoms exhibited by people with Pervasive Developmental Disorders in western cultures. Japan has the highest incidence of Pervasive Developmental Disorders, a group of disorders including autism and Asperger’s syndrome, in the developed world. In Japan, PDDs are some 2.95 times more common than in western countries. Some 3.3% of Japanese males have PDD compared with approximately 1% in Europe and the US. This has led some western commentators to suggest that people with hikikomori are affected by PDDs or disorders that affect social competence, but that their disorders are altered from their typical western presentation by the social and cultural pressures unique to Japan.


Actually, that's pretty much what I'm trying to say. The last sentence pretty much represents what I believe... Also, because many parents refuse to believe it exists, I think the consistancy is even higher than this due to unreported cases...

TcDohl wrote:
Tamaki Saito, the foremost expert on hikikomori, was the one that gave the figure of 10%. You can find this in Shutting Out the Sun, page 56, 223.


Hmm, I would have never guessed that...

Edit: Ah, like I thought...

Wikipedia wrote:
The national curriculum exposes students to balanced, basic education, and compulsory schooling is known for its equal educational treatment of students and for its relatively equal distribution of financial resources among schools. However, the demands made by the uniform curricula and approach extracts a price in lack of flexibility, including expected conformity of behavior. Little effort is made to address children with special needs and interests. Much of the reform proposed in the late 1980s, particularly that part emphasizing greater flexibility, creativity, and opportunities for greater individual expression, was aimed at changing these approaches but has made little progress. Critical thinking is not a concept that is valued in the Japanese education system. Instead, students are generally instructed to memorize the text from which they will be tested, resulting in high test scores that do not require manipulatives nor reflect the students' actual ability.

The inherent problem with the concept of "hammering" the student who sticks out also manifests itself in the classroom. Because students are limited to grade specific courses, the needs of gifted students and others with learning disabilities are neglected. If, for example, a student is a native English speaker, she or he is automatically assigned to the English class corresponding to her or his year in school. The same is true of the third year junior high student who has not mastered first year math; she or he is enrolled into a course that is beyond her or his ability. There are no remedial or honors classes to meet the needs of the individual. In extreme cases, students who have developmental disabilities are mainstreamed into regular classes with teachers who lack any training necessary to properly instruct them.

It should be noted, however, that this can sometimes be the result of parents who refuse to admit that their child has a special need. As in the United States, most districts have specialized, skills-based schools for students with severe disabilities. In this case, each student is assigned a teacher or care person to assist them. While these schools offer a superior service for minors, adult services are gradually being phased out due to budget cuts.
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marie-antoinette



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:18 pm Reply with quote
PantsGoblin wrote:


As I said before, I believe that's because the Japanese just don't treat it and/or just refuse it exists.


Ah, that would make more sense. A dangerous combination there, though I still would expect there to be a fair number of hikikomori who do not have any of these Developmental Disorders but have ended up in their situation due to other reasons.
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TcDohl



Joined: 25 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:20 pm Reply with quote
Anyway, if you're interested in finding more about hikikomori and the underlying societal causes that produce the phenomenon, you should read the book that I've been citing this whole time. It's probably the best book you can get about hikikomori in the English language. Though my criticisms of it is that it's a little too US-centric, and that it's doesn't have a balanced view of the phenomenon, i.e. why Japanese people choose to perpetuate the attitudes, mindsets, and hegemonies that cripple their country. But nonetheless, it is an excellent book. Here's a link to its Amazon.com page: Amazon.com
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Zalis116_v2



Joined: 27 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 2:29 am Reply with quote
I haven't extensively read this thread for fear of spoilers, but I just wanted to pop in and say that I recently saw the first 5 episodes and was summarily impressed. It's been a long time since I came across an anime that was so LOL-funny and so disturbingly relevant to my own life at the same time. After all, you know you have a problem when you can identify which galge all the cliché traits listed in episode 4 were from. I may hold back for another week in case the anime club watches a few episodes again, but I can see myself marathoning through the rest. The way things are going, Welcome to the NHK! has a fine chance of breaking into the favorites list, and could even challenge [b]Scrapped Princess[b] for the top spot. The only question is, "How did I let this one slide by me for so long??"
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PantsGoblin
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 2:47 am Reply with quote
Zalis116_v2 wrote:
The only question is, "How did I let this one slide by me for so long??"


I asked myself this same question when I first watched it a few weeks ago. Watched all of the episodes subbed so far. Want to see the rest of this... but I'm going to have a hell of time deciding whether this or Higurashi no Naku Koro ni was my favorite anime this year. Both have already made it into my top 10 favorites, but they're SO close, I don't know where to put them yet... I'll watch the last episodes of this before I decide though...
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