Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Scum's Wish
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zrnzle500
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Actually you hear him use the term 自己愛 (jiko ai), among his long list of things he says about her, which google translates as narcissism, though if one doesn't trust that, if you break it down to jiko and ai, it would translate to self love, which makes their translating decision seem correct, though if I'm mistaken I'm sure one of the people who knows how to translate could correct that. |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23918 |
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I may have to change my name to Jiko Ai...
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Lifesongsoa
Posts: 34 |
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Self love is how she defines herself too right? It's still a bit different from diagnosing her as a narcissist I think. Or maybe I just feel uncomfortable with the diagnosis? I think the nuance is important because Akane says herself that she doesn't have a superiority complex. She is self-absorbed and self-serving, but doesn't actually believe herself better than the people she manipulates. So even if she has the disorder we are led to believe there is more to Akane and her role in the story.
Akane certainly has some traits of narcissism so maybe calling her one isn't a big deal. I don't want to pretend I'm an expert on personality disorders. I just hope the nuance the story is going for when she says she doesn't have a superiority complex won't be lost. Especially now the story is coming back around to say something about identity. It would be a real shame to miss Akane for a personality disorder when this story is dangling her identity in front of us I think. |
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zrnzle500
Posts: 3767 |
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I think they are going for the more general meaning and not the personality disorder when they use the term narcissist. I'm not sure I've seen the term used in anime specifically referring to the personality disorder and not in the sense of having excessive or erotic interest in oneself and one's physical appearance.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23918 |
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Plus, if we are using narcissism in its less official sense (as opposed to a clincial disorder), I don't think a sense of superiority is necessarily an automatic component. You can be completely in love with yourself and not necessarily have a sense of superiority, especially if it relates to aspects that don't have anything to do with physical appearance.
Oops, just noticed zrnzle500 made the same point. |
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Chiibi
 Posts: 4829 |
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Not only does Mugi call her all that; but he calls her a "kuso onna".
Translators sometimes pun this as "b*tch"....which is more or less accurate. Literally it means "sh*tty (or damn) woman". |
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Lifesongsoa
Posts: 34 |
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I also question how much Akane really loves herself. We need to start getting into definitions of what love means. The disorder would mean specific things. A more ambiguous self-love is flexible. I'd prefer to look to the narrative to explain Akane versus using the definition of narcissism I guess? It sounds like we are more or less on the same page.
Akane probably can't pull feelings of love for herself out of thin air like some kind of narcissistic magician, but acts in a boring, low key way most of the time. She absolutely prioritizes herself in a hedonistic, self-serving way. She clearly loves feeling powerful regardless of what she believes about her self-image. Honestly I'd expect most people to find Akane boring if they didn't understand her personality and pathetic if they did. I mean, she acts like an air-headed wallflower most of the day and then... Mugi... |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23918 |
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What I feel primarily for Akane is utter contempt. The fact that she knows her behaviour is destructive to other people, and revels in the pain she inflicts on others, including schoolkids, just makes her the worst in my eyes.
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Lifesongsoa
Posts: 34 |
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She revels in their pain and enjoys being credited for it, but does she believe herself responsible for it? Or does she think of herself as someone who gives people what they want? I hope we get to see things from inside her head again.
I'm a bit more taken with the narrative I guess. The primary emotion I feel toward Akane is probably fear. Fear toward seeing something familiar in the way she is broken and wondering if I might have broken in a similar way given the right enviroment. Not sure how much of that is me feeling pulled in by the narrative and how much is because of my actual personality. It's weird to see things through Mugi's eyes. I can't say for sure that a younger, more naive me wouldn't feel about the same way he does toward Akane. I know she can't be justified, but I guess I want to see her redeemed anyway? This narrative is totally pointing a knife at my heart for feeling that way. lol I'm calling your bluff Scum's Wish! Please don't hurt me too much... |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23918 |
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 Scum's Wish is going to be your Akane, Lifesongsoa ... "she" will leave you metaphorically sprawled in the middle of the street, bleeding to death, as "she" laughs at your pain. 
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JSWatt
Posts: 6 |
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I'm guessing that last paragraph is sarcasm? Poe's Law makes it difficult to know. There is some evolutionary sense to the notion that women might prize men in relationships more than women. The best evolutionary strategy for a male is to disseminate his genes as widely as possible. For a woman, mate stability is probably more important since having a reliable mate promotes resource accretion, which would help ensure her children's survival. It seems to me, though, that this notion depends on the woman's interpreting a male's single-ness as being either (a) a signal that he is undesired by other women (which may be an indication of a flaw) or (b) a signal that he is unreliable (i.e. unable to maintain a long-term relationship). I'm dubious about either of these points. Moreover, the notion of wresting a male from another woman seems to be rather foolish in that the male this, by definition, suggests a certain degree of unreliability in that male, which is (to my understanding) what is undesired by a women. There's also a question of how cleanly evolutionary theory works on an individual level. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23918 |
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@ JSWatt - I share your dubiousness with respect to how valid evolutionary theory is with respect to individual behaviour. For example, as you note, the best strategy is for a male to disseminate his genes as widely as possible. Yet, monogamy has proven historically to be far more prevalent and durable than polygamy, even though most societies have been patriarchial. From this we an conclude one of two things: 1) sticking with a single mate actually has some greater evolutionary advantage relative to "spreading the seed" or 2) females have craftily convinced males that monogamy is the way to go despite evolutionary theory or what porn would have us believe men really want.
However, if there is any truth behind the claim that females are likely to be more interested in a given male if they think another female(s) are also interested in him, it would be because: 1) this is an external validation of their own opinion. which does not seem to be a powerful motivator for males interested in females; and/or 2) of a nagging suspicion that if a male is single and there is no indication of other female interest in him, there may be some flaw (of whatever nature) which, again, does not seem to be a preoccupation of males who are evaluating females. I make no claim that this theory is actually true, I can only cite anecdotal evidence from females I have known who passed this along. Naturally, it is possible they were just shitting me. |
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zrnzle500
Posts: 3767 |
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Well it seems that evolutionary theory on that question offers more options than you think. Here's an article on the issue of why animals and people might turn to monogamy. Here's a recent study. And if you don't find either agreeable, there seems to be a fair amount of scholarly articles. I make no claim to which may be correct or persuasive but only that thought on evolution and monogamy is broader than you posit. Though ultimately this seems to be getting far afield so this is the last I will speak of this particular issue.
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Chiibi
Posts: 4829 |
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I don't know if this means much....but on streaming sites where people can comment on the episodes, I saw quite a few male users admitting they completely understand Mugi's feelings of how not being able to have her makes her desirable, and would also take Akane to bed, given the opportunity. Guess Mugi isn't the only one who is attracted to Akane.  Male fans probably love 'bad girls' the same way fangirls love 'bad boys'. We can't always explain why.
The Scum fandom seems quite split; people are either cursing her with the worst names they can think of......or praising her for her beauty and/or diabolical nature. The hate is understandably mostly coming from the Hanabi fans who don't want to see Hanabi tortured by Akane. I'm not really sure where I stand....I just know I'm not bored when she is on screen. lol |
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Lifesongsoa
Posts: 34 |
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I'm not really all that conflicted about it, but I would have been pretty damn confused as a teenager. I feel bad about Akane taking advantage of Mugi primarily because of how naive he is about his own feelings. If he were a bit older and more aware of what he were getting into I probably wouldn't try to stop him. When I look at Akane through Hanabi's perspective I hate her completely, when I look at her through Mugi's perspective I feel sorry for her and want to do something meaningful for her, when I look at her through her own perspective I see someone who feels crushed by how robotic and isolated their life is. All of those make sense to me. I probably feel closest to relating with Akane which leaves me feeling weird about how terrible she is. I'm not a very judgemental person in general. Between changing perspective and passing judgement I'm the sort to change perspective as a first choice in almost any situation. I'd rather judge people by their own moral standards than by mine. That's how I was as a child and how I still am as an adult. The only difference now is that I'm aware of it. It's not usually a problem. It means I pick up on little nuances of how people act pretty fast and I can often spot lies so well I even pick up on the ones I couldn't care less about either way. A character like Akane messes with my head. One of the first thoughts I have is that this story is only so much fun because of her. There is a sense of liberation that comes from a person who is so loose about what they believe in terms of morality. Akane is intoxicating for representing the freedom she longs for. If I judge Akane by her own standards the only rules are essentially do what feels good. You could take advantage of her to hell and back and you wouldn't be betraying her own moral compass. I think that is probably the secret to my own fascination with her. The fact that Mugi considers Akane attractive for how unobtainable she is makes sense to me because it makes her a safe fantasy. Before episode 8 he was enjoying that fantasy much the same way we are enjoying Scum's Wish as a whole. The disturbing thing about Akane is that there is nothing in her rule book preventing her from taking advantage of Mugi. It makes me wonder if she will start making revisions before the end of this anime. There is no way I see a relationship between Mugi and Akane working out, but in a weird way it's possible he might have set things in motion for her to desire intimacy. She is a last boss he can't hope to defeat I think, but that would be enough to score a pretty big hit on her. |
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