Forum - View topicDoes ANN still use Cloudflare.
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Vickey Cheese
Posts: 12 |
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Hello, I was just wondering if ANN is still using Cloudflare. As you may or may not be aware there is currently a campaign to protest against Cloudflare for hosting the right-wing terrorist website Kiwi Farms. They have been targetting trans individuals and making their lives a living nightmare. A very prominnet streamer names Keffals was Swatted and had a gun pointed in her face because of them. We are now campaigning to get Cloudflare to drop Kiwi Farms from their service. We are asking for solidarity and for allies to drop Cloudflare and find another CDN service. I am hoping ANN would not be siding with Cloudflare and Kiwi Farms on this issue and make the right choice.
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10463 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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Yes, we do still use Cloudflare.
Please note that Cloudflare does not host any websites. I dislike Kiwi Farms and I believe the website not only tolerates, but encourages the harmful behavior that occurs in its forums and is therefore complicit and responsible for what goes on in the forum. While I am a freedom of speech advocate, I don't like absolutist mentalities in regards to "rights." In particular, I do not agree with Cloudflares absolutist position on freedom of speech. I also disagree with Prince's (CEO of CF) "thin wedge" assertion that if they removed certain sites from their services, they could be forced by totalitarian governments to take critical websites offline. CF just needs to define what is and isn't acceptable content in their TOS, and refuse service to websites that breach those terms. I believe that they should ban hate-speech and piracy on their network (among other things). Clearly, I am not unbiased in this. ANN's staff have suffered the Kiwifarms abuse. I want to see Kiwifarms offline, and I hate that CF protects them. Likewise, dozens of sites that copy ANN's stickers hide that identifies behind Cloudflare. I hate that CF protects them. Unfortunately ANN needs Cloudflare. ANN is DDoS'd almost non-stop. Cloudflare is what keeps us online. I am not aware of any other service that offers the same level of protection and bandwidth reduction that Cloudflare offers. We're approved for Google Shield, unfortunately AFAIK, they don't offer the CDN bandwidth reduction or acceleration features of Cloudflare. I would consider an alternative to Cloudflare if I knew of one that offered the same services for a similar price (CF's prices are ridiculously low). I really wish Project Shield was also a CDN. |
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mdo7
 Posts: 6424 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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Uh, sorry semi-off topic. But you'll be happy to know that Cloudflare has blocked Kiwi Farms just a few hours ago (Just got this from Twitter).
So the good news is that Cloudflare took action against Kiwi Farms which is the right step. But however, I'm also concerned about Cloudflare's association with foreign terrorist groups like ISIS, Al-Qaeda, and Al-Shabab. That one really concern me because why is a US company providing cybersecurity services to groups designated by US as a terror groups. Aren't these the same Al-Qaeda, and ISIS that commit terror attack on US and European soils? Isn't that aiding and abetting a terror group, and I believe that's a crime? |
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Tempest
I Run this place. ANN Publisher Posts: 10463 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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The crime part is irrelevant to me IMHO; crime != Unethical. That said, I do think providing service to those websites was highly unethical; my opinions on that are the same as my opinions expressed above. Prince's responses were also the same. His freedom of speech position is almost absolute; he cares not about the content of the websites, he feels that the principal of freedom of speech outweighs the speech that he is protecting. Very much, "Monsieur l’abbé, je déteste ce que vous écrivez, mais je donnerai ma vie pour que vous puissiez continuer à écrire." -Évelyne Béatrice Hall. The point is somewhat moot though, since those articles were published in 2019, the domain names for the websites in question have been seized by the US government. -t |
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mdo7
Posts: 6424 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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Tempest, I'm sorry to bump this topic again. But I'm afraid Cloudflare could face criminal liability on federal level. Because just today, the US Department of Justice just brought criminal charges against a French cement company for paying ISIS (aka aiding and abetting, material supply). So, if a French cement company can face criminal charges in the US for paying & aiding a terrorist group like ISIS. That means Cloudflare, and Matthew Prince can face the same criminal charges like them when they provided services to ISIS in the past. That means Cloudflare is open to criminal liability from the US Department of Justice if the Lafarge case can set a standard regarding companies and their support for terrorism. And if Cloudflare face any criminal charges for that, then that can lead to people who were victims of Kiwi Farms attack and bigotry filing a federal lawsuit (and probably criminal charges) toward Cloudflare, and including Matthew Prince for aiding and abetting hate crimes, and allowing death threat, and incitement towards violence. The victims of Kiwi Farms do have enough cases and evidence to warrant a federal lawsuits (and criminal charges) towards Cloudflare. I mean if a cement company like Lafarge can face criminal charges for aiding ISIS, then so can Cloudflare since in the past they provided services to ISIS, and other US-designated terrorist groups. |
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