Forum - View topicANN, please don't neglect to mention Bleach influences.
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Brice_Armstrong
Posts: 19 |
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I realize most ANN staff are infatuated with Bleach, they're quick to knock newer mangas like Shana off and calling them "a rip off of bleach" as if Bleach is totally original and isn't a rip off of older Shounen series, I notice ANN is reviewing every Bleach DVD after vol. 12 or so and they're intent on saying positive things even about the filler, the only thing I'm asking is that once the Bleach DVD's reach the Arrancar Arc (where all the flying and destruction reaches its peak of rediculousness) and its time for u to review em, don't neglect to mention the apparent change of direction the authot has taken which leans too much towards DBZ, he suddenly has all his characters floating in the air and the use of Zanpakuto which was Bleach's trademark is no longer important, its all "increase ur strength and speed" along with mass destructive fights, the DBZ style doesn't end there, observe these few lines uttered by Bleach characters in the arrancar Arc:
"Heal him so that he could be at full power when I fight him and has no excuse when he loses" "Let's take this fight somewhere else to avoid causing unnecessary damage" right after that line is uttered, the two characters take off into the air and land in another fighting ground.. Sounds TOO Familiar? |
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sypherman
Posts: 40 |
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Hell I'll field this one even though it was directed to the review staff. Bleach gets alot of love not because it doesn't rely on tired old shonen conventions but how deftly it uses them to make you believe you haven't seen it all before. Like most shonen ,bleach is full of training montages ,last minute power-ups and heroic resolve if you like shonen (and I assume you do) don't think of bleach as trying to be better than dragonball Z think of it as a spiritual successor although it's really a successor to yu yu hakusho but that's a whole different debate.
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Bento-Box
 Posts: 1049 Location: Florida |
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I'm kinda with you on this one, Brice. It's for the reasons you listed that I avoid at almost all costs on-going-shonen series like DBZ (even though I have watched all of it - forced to anyways), Naruto, Bleach, and One Piece. I love the initial concepts of all of these titles, but the endless "powering up" and fillers kill me. Most people will complain about filler episodes and I have noticed that ANN staff typically doesn't when it comes to Bleach. *shrugs* Everyone has favorites, I guess. And, in their defense, at the same time, anyone who is watching an on-going series like the above listed knows that there will be filler and power-ups and all that other cliche stuff. I guess everyone continues watching for their own reasons even knowing what they know.
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18454 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Perhaps that's just possibly because not much of the filler content has been covered yet by reviews? (I don't recall us doing any reviews more than a volume or two deep into the Bount arc, and if there are filler episodes before that point then I'm not aware that they are filler.) And honestly, Bleach's filler content (at least what I've seen of it, anyway) is better than most, in the sense that it isn't any more annoying than the regular episodes. |
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egoist
 Posts: 7762 |
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Well, I've watched Bleach 3 times... yeah, I don't believe it either.
Fillers are generally the same crap as the regular episodes. Fights drag on for several episodes, and I believe they accomplish much more during fillers. If the reviews are still up to/in the bount arc, that just means they haven't reached the worst fillers yet. Wait and see... Bleach is the worst Shonen series out there that is currently airing. |
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Top Gun
 Posts: 4799 |
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With all due respect, One Piece is the one super-long-running shounen series that generally does its utmost to avoid most of the problems that generally avoid its genre. Its use of filler material is extremely limited, mainly to a few short arcs in-between main story arcs and a few individual episodes sprinkled in the middle of them. While its characters do grow in power as the series progresses, it's handled as far more of a natural progression in response to what the characters experience, and many aspects of it happen completely off-camera. Most importantly, though, there are no training arcs at all (or at least not through 375 episodes). I've had to sit through some of Bleach's hefty chunks of filler myself, and I've heard all about how the original Naruto series fell completely off the rails for the better part of two years, but One Piece doesn't deserve to be thrown in that category. It's paced almost as well as one could ever wish for a manga adaptation of its length. |
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egoist
Posts: 7762 |
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I'm not too sure, but it looks like One Piece's began a training arc at episode 420 or so. I'm currently at episode 422. Though, that's just a minor detail. I'm definitely looking forward to this training arc, since it's the first. This training arc applies to Luffy's crewmates only, since Luffy is out there for a mission of bigger importance. Besides, it feels like this arc is going to be epic. (episode 420 and onwards spoilers)spoiler[Luffy's bro was captured by the government, and the Whitebeard along with many other pirates are going to clash against the government at full power. Man, I can't wait for this.]
In my opinion One Piece is the best Shonen out there, compared to Bleach, Naruto, Hitman Reborn, Gintama and Fairy Fail. But well, that's another discussion. |
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7994 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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Copying elements from elsewhere and combining them is how you breed originality into a genre or medium that's become stale and predictable (like shounen is). There's nothing wrong with it at all in my opinion, in fact sometimes the new work is better than the old work. I'm not going to give the anime examples I'm thinking of on that though because that certain topic is a powder keg. Anyway, it's like if you take take 3 of my favorite flavors chocolate, vanilla, and strawberry and put them in the same box (Neapolitan ice cream) I've gotta say "Hell Yeah!" to that.
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Miranox
 Posts: 247 Location: Montreal, Canada |
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One Piece shares fewer similarities with Bleach and Naruto but this does not make it better. I for one have seen a large chunk of Bleach and Naruto but I couldn't bring myself to watch more than a dozen One Piece episodes. It's set in a world where pretty much anything can happen and it doesn't even take itself seriously. If it was a comedy then it would work fine but it's not, it's shounen. This is why any drama or intrigue it tries to build falls flat. There is no need for training because the characters always find whatever magical power-up they need to win a battle or they simply get help from something else. It also tries hard to be creative only to end up looking stupid. Giving a character whatever special ability you thought up while drunk is not creative. |
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egoist
Posts: 7762 |
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I'd like to remind you of my last line:
So please, let's not drag this any further. |
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Top Gun
Posts: 4799 |
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And why do "shounen" and "comedy" have to be mutually exclusive labels? I wouldn't classify One Piece as a straight-up comedy per se, because its primary focus is on its overall plot and character development, but it is certainly heavily comedic in nature, and it never once hides that intention. I've heard it said that, in terms of comedy, One Piece is about as close as anime comes to the aesthetic of classic Looney Tunes shorts, and I generally agree with that statement. Oda has a fine grasp of how physical slapstick and the general goofiness of most of his cast can be used most effectively. To me, one of One Piece's greatest strengths is that it often doesn't take itself seriously when lesser shows would; its characters manage to stay lighthearted and likable even during some of the most dire of circumstances. At the same time, it's a testament to Oda's skill that that quality doesn't preclude the show from having some very powerful dramatic moments. I've yet to have anything in 150 episodes of Bleach move me close to tears, and I'm sure the same would be true of Naruto were I to watch it as well, but I can rattle off several moments in One Piece that hit me in the gut like a freight train. And maybe you feel otherwise, but personally, I see far more creativity in letting characters come up with new attacks either based on their own observations/ingenuity or via off-screen thought to be substantially more creative than having to sit through episode after episode of agonizing training arcs. Just looking at one character in particular, most of Luffy's more esoteric attacks later in the series can be attributed to spoiler[a statement by Crocodile during their fight; he basically said that Luffy should learn to take full advantage of every aspect that his Devil fruit power provided him. As a result, Luffy was able to come up with such creative uses as rapidly pumping blood through his rubber veins, and even inflating his very skeleton with air.] A lot of the intrigue in these individual fights comes from seeing just how Luffy or one of the other characters manages to work with what they have and produce something novel in order to take out whatever enemy they're facing; compare that to, say, Bleach, where almost every fight plays out as get-beat-up-for-a-while-then-unleash-the-bankai/super-bow/whatever. And as for series-wide intrigue...well, when the series gradually builds up a plot of a global scale over the course of 400 episodes and frequently references seemingly-unimportant events a good 300 episodes in the past, I'm not sure what sort of additional intrigue one could hope for from a long-running shounen series. Edit: Gah, sorry, egoist got in before me. I'll drop the topic. |
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