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NEWS: Tokyo's '2D Child Porn' Bill Delayed to at Least Fall

on freedom of speech and expression, it is either everybody defending everyone's freedom of speech and expression anytime, anywhere, always, or it is no one defending any other person's freedom of speech anytime, anywhere. once uneducated persons become distracted and feel the expressions of others they find repulsive have no direct concern on them, freedom of speech and expression is non-existent because anyone else equally uneducated can do those to the first apathetic bunch with not just equal but more relative ease on things that don't concern them because the trends have been set.

People should really read Dan Kanemitsu's explanation of this bill (linked to in the article).

In every era, authority is enticed by the allure of censorship. Expecting children to grow-up wholesome by putting a lid on unpleasant things is fiction in of itself. It is unfortunate that we can only rely upon "nonexistent politicians" to be wholesome enough to realize that there is a difference between moral standards for right and wrong versus legal enforcement.
- Ehime Shinbun Editorial, March 20th, 2010.[1]

Mr. Takashi Yamaguchi, a Tokyo based lawyer very active in opposing efforts to censor manga and anime, has pointed out there is something fundamentally wrong with legislation that assumes that the enforcers of the provision will be benevolent.

jtstellar wrote:

on freedom of speech and expression, it is either everybody defending everyone's freedom of speech and expression anytime, anywhere, always, or it is no one defending any other person's freedom of speech anytime, anywhere. once uneducated persons become distracted and feel the expressions of others they find repulsive have no direct concern on them, freedom of speech and expression is non-existent because anyone else equally uneducated can do those to the first apathetic bunch with not just equal but more relative ease on things that don't concern them because the trends have been set.

Not picking a fight here. Freedom of speech and expression are only free as long as it is not infringing on another person's beliefs.

It seems that the majority of Japanese people worried about the bill because they do not trust their own government. They have every right to feel that way. If the bill is written in this manner, it gives the government the authority to interpret the bill in their favor as what they deem inappropriate.

The bill should be written in a manner that says what criteria are set forth to determine what is lawful or unlawful in regards to sexual explicit, manga and anime child porn. The bill should not give any unintended power to the authority to decide what they say is unlawful. The bill should not be vague.

Quote:

Because I don't really buy the line that people reading this material will never touch a real kid....

Let me clear this up for you Pedophilia like any other sexual preference is not a learned trait. Someone won't become a pedophile because they read some loli, in the same way a straight person wont become gay because they read some yaoi/yuri and vice versa.

sdhd wrote:

Not picking a fight here. Freedom of speech and expression are only free as long as it is not infringing on another person's beliefs.

Problem here is; what constitutes "infringing on another person's beliefs"? If I say "Jesus was a child rapist", doesn't that infringe in other people's beliefs?

So...You're basically saying that an age restriction that's based only on appearance without any research shouldn't be used?

In the US, a minor is considered under 18, which is what obscenity laws are against, and what is considered obscene is decided on a local level. In Canada, wasn't there that one case where a guy got in trouble for having fictional written content on his computer at work because of Canada's law (I don't believe it was the US, though maybe it was)? The law has been abused. Whether it's been widely publicized or not, for someone it has hurt them.

I get what you're saying about the law being vague (it is!) but I don't follow how it has to do with the US, as you originally argued. And the law in Canada calls someone under 18 a minor, correct? In the end, I still just don't see how Japan's proposed bills are any specific country's fault. The UN is pressuring and some associations within Japan, too, but there hasn't been an outcry from much else, really.

Nemo_N wrote:

sdhd wrote: Not picking a fight here. Freedom of speech and expression are only free as long as it is not infringing on another person's beliefs. Problem here is; what constitutes "infringing on another person's beliefs"? If I say "Jesus was a child rapist", doesn't that infringe in other people's beliefs?

I think the better way to phrase it is "rights". Child porn is illegal because it infringes on a child's rights to a healthy, normal life. People can choose to believe in a religion or not, but they can't force anyone to give up their religion/atheism. People can't drink and drive because it infringes on other people's rights to be safe. Etc.

Nemo_N wrote:

sdhd wrote: Not picking a fight here. Freedom of speech and expression are only free as long as it is not infringing on another person's beliefs. Problem here is; what constitutes "infringing on another person's beliefs"? If I say "Jesus was a child rapist", doesn't that infringe in other people's beliefs?

I think the better way to phrase it is "rights". Child porn is illegal because it infringes on a child's rights to a healthy, normal life. People can choose to believe in a religion or not, but they can't force anyone to give up their religion/atheism. People can't drink and drive because it infringes on other people's rights to be safe. Etc.

Nemo_N wrote:

sdhd wrote: Not picking a fight here. Freedom of speech and expression are only free as long as it is not infringing on another person's beliefs. Problem here is; what constitutes "infringing on another person's beliefs"? If I say "Jesus was a child rapist", doesn't that infringe in other people's beliefs?

I think the better way to phrase it is "rights". Child porn is illegal because it infringes on a child's rights to a healthy, normal life. People can choose to believe in a religion or not, but they can't force anyone to give up their religion/atheism. People can't drink and drive because it infringes on other people's rights to be safe. Etc.

Well uh.. Shouldn't they ban possession of real child porn by everyone before they try to ban teenagers from reading Josei and Seinen?

Any fiction that features someone identifiable as a minor + involved in "anti-social" sexual and/or sexual like act + depicted in a positive light + which may highly impede the wholesome mental development of youth regarding his/her sexuality => shall be regulated as being harmful content.

Could you be a little more clear about what's being targeted? What have the Tokyo Metropolitan Government said about material they want to go after?
The Tokyo Metropolitan Government (TMG) has been very ambiguous in public statements (which is expected) but documents leading to the creation of the bill and information extracted by Tokyo Metropolitan Assembly members indicate that BL (Boys Love,) Yaoi, Ladies Comics, romantic Shojo Manga, and many publications aimed toward girls and women are being targeted. Risqu? comedy often featured in certain for boys and men's publications also appear to be on the radar screen, but since many of these books could be considered "too erotic," the blunt of the target appears to be aimed more toward "sensual and introspective romance" titles--a specialty of women's and girl's manga.
Why are women's publications more likely to be affected by this bill? Because the common visual style in such material is not as graphic as with men's publications, and therefore "not erotic, but dangerous subject matter" criteria for regulation will probably have an impact of women more than men's manga and anime fiction.

Meanwhile in Japan, most doujinshi artists are protesting this due to the fact that before this, there was never a problem or issue allowing minors to buy hentai it was the parents that made the decision whether or not it was appropiate for them and a could give a clerk consent to sell it to minors. I'm on the side of the opposition, hentai depicting children is fictional,benign,harmless. It does NOT make young teen boys go and want to rape or molest a little girl. All studies have shown that it doesn't hurt the minds of kids.