Forum - View topicBest Team/Organization Tournament: Post-Mortem
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Final Four? Three others besides you. Win it all? Two people. In related news: Congratulations Olliff! You are now guaranteed first place. Theoretically Ggultra can still tie you for first, but not pass you, and given Ggultra's remaining picks and how they've been fairing, that's unlikely. Detailed results will be up in about half an hour or so, probably sooner. Detailed results here. Olliff is now sitting pretty in first place with 162 points. Mow has pulled away from Aylinn momentarily to set second place at 145 over her 141. Dtm (133) again takes fourth from Key (132) with guet (129) not too far behind. Murph and Derek (126) remain tied and pass Marie (123). Animnafets (121) pass Ggultra (120), who by some bizarre circumstance could potentially tie Olliff. Second place is still fairly open for competition, and five people still have a shot at it, and three more are still in the running for third (not counting Ggultra). |
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Olliff
 Posts: 550 |
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Thank you Dorcas_Aurelia. I came into this tournament fairly confident with my picks, but I am surprised that I have sealed the deal before the end of the fourth round. I still believe that the level of subjectivity attached to the given tournament plays a big role. While this tournament has been a lot of fun, I feel that this is one the tournaments with one of the least objective set of criteria since everyone has their own formula to what constitutes an ideal team. I am aware that Key established a fairly concrete criteria as a guide in the opening post, but it is important to remember that most people already know what they believe makes a team top-tier material. I also believe that this attributed to lower overall accuracy in the brackets, and I think that my approach, which involved a spreadsheet and a formula for all of the teams that I was unfamiliar with gave me an edge. Still looking forward to the next tournament, but I have already decided that I will give away any excess amount above third place place of my prizes to the other contestants if I happen to win first or second place in the next tournament, which then again may not happen. I really shouldn't get too confident since these things can be very unpredictable at times, but that's also part of the reason why I find these tournaments so much fun. We will really have to see if I fare well next time, and I really hope that these tournaments will continue, and not die down due to decreased demand since they are one of the main reasons why I use these forums. Thank you again Dorcas_Aurelia, Key, ccdx, and everyone else that helps makes these tournaments possible; I appreciate the effort and resources that you have put forth. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18460 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 4 Group D is now closed.
This is the final single-group round. Starting next week we'll be pairing up groups two at a time to determine which teams/orgs will advance to the Final Four. For now, though, we've got a couple of good match-ups here. I am especially interested to see how D-30 turns out. Group D-29 Children of Béfort, Fantastic Children vs. Science Ninja Team Gatchaman, Gatchaman Winner: Children of Befort Total: 11-9 Group D-30 Debris Section, Planetes vs. Dai-Gurren Brigade, Gurren Lagann Winner: Debris Section Total: 11-9 Last edited by Key on Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:32 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18460 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Oh, don't get too cocky. I didn't exactly help myself by voting against my minigame picks about a third of the time, including in the Sailor Scouts/MITHRIL match-up. In at least a couple of cases, that's cost my minigame pick the win. Picking most of Group D based more on who I felt should win rather than on who was more likely to triumph also didn't help. 
Oh, well. Guess I'll vote early this time: Group D-29 Children of Béfort, Fantastic Children vs. Science Ninja Team Gatchaman, Gatchaman Fans of FC have long been saying that at some point the Children's one big negative would eventually get in the way of them advancing, and this round is the point where that should happen. They do hemorrhage two members in the first episode, but that's not a big problem since most of the series focuses on a core group of the five most committed souls. However, of the five, one eventually spoiler[betrays the others to the enemy because he loses his commitment to their mission in favor of personal interest]. They may be more fleshed-out than their competitors, but that turn of events never happened to SNT Gatchaman. Granted, Gatchaman should have enough merit on their own to win outright, but that's a deciding factor if you need one. I may have more to say to support Gatchaman as the week goes on, depending on how necessary I think it is. Just remember that just because Gatchaman is a "classic" team doesn't mean they're a weak one. Group D-30 Debris Section, Planetes vs. Dai-Gurren Brigade, Gurren Lagann Probably should be a hard pick for me, and Debris Section does impress in this clip, but my heart hasn't been behind them for a while now. I still like Dai-Gurren Brigade's style and enthusiasm better, and that's enough to make the difference here. (And besides, they stay together to the end, while the Debris Section group partly fragments.) |
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zawa113
 Posts: 7358 |
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D-29: Children of Befort
They really go through a lot together, their bond is just incredible and they were on their mission for a good 500 years or so. They all had to lead a rather dark existence together to right their mistake (what exactly that is is entering spoiler territory), and since their mission was to do more than "protect the innocent from bad guys", which any competent sentai team can do, I actually think the scope of their mission, which forces The Children of Befort together as more than a crime fighting team, also forces them into a stronger group. D-30: Debris Section Now, this is a close call, but I'm giving the edge to Debris Section because I rather feel that Simon does a disproportionately larger amount of work on the team when it comes to fighting when compared to everyone else (although when it comes to any given non-combatant, it seems pretty even). With Planetes, I felt like everyone who worked directly in Toybox all did major amounts of work without anyone feeling like they contributed a lot more or a lot less than anyone else and when it came to the feeling of close knit family, Robbie and Phillippe feel right at home there too (even if they are figurehead bosses). Either way I won't be upset with how this match turns out, but I'm giving edge to Debris Section. |
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Aylinn
 Posts: 1684 |
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Group D-29
Children of Béfort, Fantastic Children vs. Science Ninja Team Gatchaman, Gatchaman I remember there were some arguments that Science Ninja Team Gatchaman lacks depth, development and growth. I think there was also something about the interaction of this team being not so great because of these factors, so I vote for Children of Béfort this time. Group D-30 Debris Section, Planetes vs. Dai-Gurren Brigade, Gurren Lagann Debris Section I'm not familiar with Planetes and I have seen only a few episodes of Gurren Lagann. It seems both teams are close, but I have to choose one team. I choose Debris Section, since from classicalzawa's post it seems the amount of work is more evenly shared by Debris Section. |
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Generic #757858
 Posts: 1354 |
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Group D-29
Children of Béfort, Fantastic Children vs. Science Ninja Team Gatchaman, Gatchaman Science Ninja Team Gatchaman. While the Children are a good team, they just aren't top tier material for the reasons mentioned. I've been swayed by Key's constant arguments, so I'm going to give SNT Gatchaman (Gatchamans? Gatchamen?) the chance here. Group D-30 Debris Section, Planetes vs. Dai-Gurren Brigade, Gurren Lagann Dai-Gurren Brigade. Planetes may be the better show, but Debris Section just isn't the better team (IMHO they shouldn't have gotten past Chor Tempest). Dai-Gurren Brigade's leader may also be their strongest player, but I'm not going to hold it against them, since that's the case with a whole lot of teams. The rest of the Brigade more than pull their weight, especially later on, and considering their accomplishments and boundless enthusiasm I'd say they are the winners here. |
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Ggultra2764
 Subscriber Posts: 3969 Location: New York state. |
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Hey, I can believe, can I? This tourney's been unpredictable enough. This is my best tourney performance to date and I wanna survive as long as possible. 
Match D-29: Children of Befort (Fantastic Children) Just because G-Force is a classic team doesn't necessarily mean they have a great deal of depth. I'll give the Befort Children a vote for one more round as a result. But I'm definitely planning to check out Fantastic Children at some point considering what I've heard of the Befort Children. Match D-30: Dai-Gurren Brigade (Gurren Lagann) The large scale of accomplishments, Simon and Kamina's leadership and the gung-ho attitude of the group have me going for the Dai-Gurren Brigade. |
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marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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Group D-29
Voting for: Science Ninja Team Gatchaman, Gatchaman Reason: My votes for the Children ended in the last round and Gatchaman still has enough iconic-ness to keep them in it, IMO. Group D-30 Voting for: Dai-Gurren Brigade, Gurren Lagann Reason: They still seem like the stronger team (and it doesn't help that they are one of my mini-game picks...though so are the Children who I just voted AGAINST so that's really not very involved in the reasoning). Hey, I could actually have a perfect round here! Of course, my picks for Group C are gone now so yeah...can we do the most intelligent tournament again, I did well in that one 
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LydiaDianne
 Posts: 5634 Location: Southern California |
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Group D-29
Children of Béfort, Fantastic Children vs. Science Ninja Team Gatchaman, Gatchaman I'm going to go with SNTG because I feel that they are just that wee bit much stronger than the Children. Group D-30 Debris Section, Planetes vs. Dai-Gurren Brigade, Gurren Lagann Going with the Debris Section mainly because I think that the Brigade just doesn't work well in the long run. |
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ccdx
 Posts: 312 |
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All brackets and Mini-game scores updated at: http://homepage.mac.com/unirizer/team/index.html
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Dorcas_Aurelia
Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Group D-29
Children of Befort, Fantastic Children vs Science Ninja Team Gatchaman, Gatchaman Voting for: Gatchaman Because: Going by the clips, the Science Ninja Team demonstrates far more cooperation, coordination, and general teamwork than the Fantastic Children. Group D-30 Debris Section, Planetes vs. Dai-Gurren Brigade, Gurren Lagann Voting for: Debris Section Because: The Dai-Gurren Brigade does rely a little heavily on its leader, but unlike, say, the Hellsing Organization, its other members were useful, and at points vital to achieving success. Debris Section, though, has the burden more evenly dispersed, and I feel they are a little closer and have better interaction. Finally, the Dai-Gurren Brigade has the flaw of not recognizing its inability to properly adapt to an entirely different set of demands placed upon it after episode 16. While the setback this causes isn't irreversible, it highlights that the only tool the group effectively wields is a hammer, yet they have a wider variety of problems than just nails. |
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Olliff
Posts: 550 |
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Key, I am aware that a lot of people pull their punches in this tournament, and voting for the right team is more important than voting for your bracket. I tried to strive for a bracket that had a healthy mix of who I thought should win and who would be the likely favorite. I actually ended up voting against Hotel Moscow as early as round 2 even though I had them go as far as round 4 since I am a stickler for development in teams. I know that you voted against your picks way more than me, but I did not intend to offend you in my post. I just believe there's nothing wrong with being a little competitive, and doing a little good-natured gloating when things work out. It's always good to have your bracket work out for once since mine went to shambles near the end of the last tournament. It's tough to predict these things, and I wouldn't be surprised if you were near the top with any of your brackets since you seem like one of the most well versed posters on these forums, and your arguments have proven to be very persuasive among voters.
Group D-29 Children of Béfort, Fantastic Children vs. Science Ninja Team Gatchaman, Gatchaman Both teams are great, but the Gatchaman team lacks the development and depth needed to progress at this stage in the tournament. The plight for the Children of Befort also seems more severe and they seem like a team that's easier to relate to compared to their prototypical sentai team foes. Group D-30 Debris Section, Planetes vs. Dai-Gurren Brigade, Gurren Lagann I also feel that the Dai-Gurren Brigade relies too much on its leader. I also don't like how the team seems to rely more on raw power to overwhelm its foes than actual coordinated teamwork. Compared to other teams in tournament each member doesn't seem to interact with each other as much I would like. While a minor weakness, this team is also a bit too reckless for my liking, and if it wasn't for a little luck and some last minute power up, I doubt that things would have gone as smoothly for this team. Debris Section also outclasses them in terms of development and growth, and that's saying a lot since this is far from a weakness in the Dai-Gurren Brigade. I also feel that the Debris Section does a much better job of demonstrating coordinated teamwork. Last edited by Olliff on Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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farichada
 Posts: 303 Location: Wisconsin, USA |
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Group D-29
Children of Befort, Fantastic Children vs Science Ninja Team Gatchaman, Gatchaman Voting for: Children of Béfort Because: Being a classic doesn't mean everything. With Key being a continued die-hard proponent of the other team, I don't like their chances. I have seen bits of each show, and while it is clear that G-Force does influence a number of teams that come decades after it, the team left me with a sour taste in mouth. They have teamwork down perfectly, but they seem severely underdeveloped and shallow in terms of depth. f they are the original they did leave the impression that the original can still be bland. Like a few of the other posters, I believe that development, and character depth are important aspects for a top-tier team to have, and sadly, Gatchman is sorely lacking in these areas. Leaving a legacy for the sentai genre is a double edged sword. While their influence is undeniable, the genre itself reeks of staleness and it's influence is definitely on the decline as modern studios see the sentai genre the same way. It is still played for laughs in parody, but that's mainly just to poke fun at the weaknesses of the genre, which unfortunately are many. I can see similarities to this contender to Astro Boy in the Most Heroic tournament. While both are classic staples of anime that have a strong legacy and influence they are both bland, and lacking in depth. This can be the downfall of a good hero or of a team, such as the case with Science Ninja Team Gatchaman. I also can't help but feel the extra effort that Key put into the guide for Science Ninja Team Gatchaman. Compare this to the entry for the Sailor Scouts in Group C. While I don't fault Key for doing, the influence of a good guide entry can be quite strong, especially when the guide has a skilled writer like Key. Unlike their other opponents, Gatchman now faces a tough opponent, the Children of Befort. Their will is unbreakable, and they go through a lot. They prove that they have an unbreakable will and they work together well to reach their goals. They do have a slight setback, but it is quickly overcome and only makes the team stronger. The depth behind the characters and story in this team makes this team feel more like real people than perfect superheroes that spout out the typical sentai cheesy heroic lines that we all know too well. G-Force excels at what they were meant to be, but an iconic team isn't always a top tier team and like I have said before they haven't aged well. I know it's not entirely this team's fault due to its age, but it's also easy to find a truckload of cheesiness and cliches surrounding this team. This post is a modified rehash of one my previous posts against this team. Group D-30 Debris Section, Planetes vs. Dai-Gurren Brigade, Gurren Lagann Voting for: Debris Section Because: *minor spoilers for Gurren Lagann* Dorcas_Aurelia is spot on with his argument against the Gurren Lagann team. While the other members of the team aren't useless, Simon contributes far more to the success of this team than any other member. This team also lacks versatility when it is proven in the later arcs that they are nearly incompetent doing anything else besides bashing heads. Simon may be an excellent warrior leader, but he is an ineffectual leader when it comes to managing a civilization. This leader also lets himself get locked up and he essentially gives up until someone else bails him out. He stays locked up in the jail and he makes no attempt to escape. I really do not think we should be voting for a team that has a leader that gives up as such a late stage in this tournament. Posters who participated in the Most Heroic tournament may be familiar with this scene since it lead to Simon's downfall in that tournament as well. I also think that this scene is relevant to this tournament as well since he is the team's leader for the majority of the show. |
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Dolza
 Posts: 94 Location: Chicagoland |
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Group D-29
Children of Béfort, Fantastic Children vs. Science Ninja Team Gatchaman, Gatchaman I was watching Battle of the Planets in the 70s, so I have to go with the Science Ninja Team Gatchaman. Group D-30 Debris Section, Planetes vs. Dai-Gurren Brigade, Gurren Lagann This is a little harder, but I think that in a "realistic" space show like Planetes, you have to rely on everyone around you - so I select the Debris Section. |
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