Forum - View topicBest Team/Organization Tournament: Post-Mortem
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mow123
 Posts: 339 |
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With Key's last post, it appears you should have a good basic grasp of both teams. There are no substantial failures that I can think of concerning the Knight Sabers. There are few well-intentioned teasing here and there, but I hardly call that a big failure or blow against their tight-knit nature The Sylia incident described by Key was the only real exception to this incident, and it spurred a dramatic positive change in team dynamic that had a long last influence. Perhaps, my use of the word of consistency is a bit misleading since this is an excellent example of how the team grew and were dynamic. What I was really getting is how they are consistent compared to the Game Club, while forgetting all of the negative connotations that this word can have. LordofNoe, I really appreciate your earnest attempt to make an objective and informed decision, and I hope others will follow your example. As an alternative option, if you still find both teams even, you could edit out your post and declare that you are abstaining this round since none of the other matches are close. This is an unorthodox approach, but it's really the only one you can signal no preference in a match. If you choose to do this, it will important for you to explain why you are doing this in your post. Lastly, if you need a tiebreaker, consider this. Of all the posters who have voted this round, the overwhelming majority of people who familiar with both shows side with the Knight Sabers. Not only that, but some of the most vocal supporters for the Game Club have openly admitted, they are unfamiliar with Knight Sabers. I am sure there are at least one or two exceptions to this rule, but I see this as a clear trend. I know this is not a concrete reason to vote one way or the other, but it is definitely worth considering in the grand scheme of things. |
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nightjuan
 Posts: 1473 |
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LordofNoe is doing something quite admirable indeed and will have his own opinion, either way, but I would like to say that even without wanting to make this a matter of number crunching, we are hardly in the presence of anything resembling a representative sample.
That is, however, about as far as I can go right now. Nevertheless, I am already looking forward to any future opportunities to have respectful debates since that's what actually makes these tournaments interesting, as opposed to just holding a poll or looking at encyclopedia ratings. |
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LordofNoe
 Posts: 115 Location: Where the sky is blue, the grass is green. |
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I would like to say I'm not exactly number crunching. After rereading the arguments for the second time, I couldn't come to a decision, and so I broke down the process of judging a team into several steps, and evaluated both teams separately for every aspect I devised necessary to be considered the "best". This way I could look at each team on a much more detailed level, hopefully finding in this way a critical piece of information that would sway my vote. But even this method resulted in a tie. Therefore both parties should realize that, from a neutral standpoint, both teams are relatively equal when looked at by the sum of all their strengths and weaknesses. I thank everyone who helped participate in my potentially overly elaborate process, and hope people take away that this kind of medium is, as nightjuan pointed out, a way to have interesting, respectful debates and learn something about a series that you passed over before or simply had never been exposed to, as is my case. Right now I'm looking for anything substantial that would sway my vote in one direction or the other, and will hopefully do that before midnight, or, at least, before I retire for the evening. If not, I will follow mow123's advice and abstain from this round. I thank everyone again for making this as interesting as it is. |
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Sophisticat
 Posts: 165 |
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A-25: Section 9
I could post arguments, but I'd just be reiterating what most have already said. Great chemistry, awesome teamwork, slick operatives, etc. A-26: Paper Sisters This is a really tough call for me as I adore each team. However, Hellsing is less about teamwork than letting loose their chained beast. The Paper Sisters have marvelous unity that Hellsing only matches in rare instances. A-27: NERV NERV, as an organization, is very well-run. Only people of talent are in their respective positions, and they are extremely efficient at it. Individuals are less cohesive, but as a whole, you can't really ask more from a group mostly left in the dark about the org's grand designs. A-28: Game Club Going off comments here. I'm really only familiar with the Game Club, as I've seen ~10 eps. of Higurashi, and none of BC. |
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Beltane70
 Posts: 3971 |
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This round is quite challenging!
Group A-25: Section 9 Section 9 gets the vote here. Each member knows their job and posses the skills, knowledge, and ability to perform it with almost flawless perfection. As a whole, Section 9's teamwork and professionalism give them the edge over Team Urameshi. Group A-26: Paper Sisters I haven't seen either of these shows, but from the arguments that I've seen, the Paper SIsters seems to be the better group Group A-27 NERV While this organization has quite a flaws, NERV's seems a lot less glaring than Le Secret du Roi's. Group A-28 Knight Sabers I hate to say this, but my vote here is a bit biased, as I've only seen Bubblegum Crises. I haven't seen anything in the arguments for the Game Club to convince me to vote otherwise. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18454 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 3 Group A is now closed.
Exact results can be found here. The end of the round created some unusual situations. Beltane70's votes do not count because he was a few minutes too late - and they would have made a difference in one match. While LordofNoe talked about abstaining if he did not hear more decisive arguments in time, he did not officially do so before the round ended, and so the votes he cast stand. Why does that matter when A-25 and A-26 were both immense blow-outs in favor of Section 9 and the Paper Sisters, respectively? Because of Group A-28, a hotly-contested match which ends in our first tie of the tournament due to the above two circumstances. (Either LoN officially dropping his votes or Beltane70 being counted would have tipped A-28 in the Knight Sabers' favor.) That we got through the first two rounds without a single tie was kinda amazing, though, so this isn't too much of a surprise. It does set up an interesting three-way next round against NERV, though! Will NERV play the spoiler for one side or the other? Anyway, next round should be up very shortly. That one could have a contentious match or two in it, too. |
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LordofNoe
Posts: 115 Location: Where the sky is blue, the grass is green. |
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I did not look at the time while writing my post, and, ironically, my choice to spend more time on my decision lead to my decision not being made. And yes, I laughed quite a bit when I found this out. I apologize if anyone cared what my opinion had ended up being.
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18454 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 3 Group B is now closed.
No cute commentary this time, so let's just get down to business! Group B-25 Seven Samurai, Samurai 7 vs. Straw Hat Pirates, One Piece Winner: Straw Hat Pirates Total: 17-1 Group B-26 Outlaw Star crew, Outlaw Star vs. Parakiss Label, Paradise Kiss Winner: Parakiss Label Total: 13-5 Group B-27 State Section 3 (aka Pumpkin Scissors), Pumpkin Scissors vs. Hotel Moscow, Black Lagoon Winner: Pumpkin Scissors Total: 10-8 Group B-28 Beck, BECK: Mongolian Chop Squad vs. Gekkostate, Eureka 7 Winner: Gekkostate Total: 15-3 Last edited by Key on Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Shoot, now I have to mess with my spreadsheet to set up it to automatically score a tie.  I knew I'd have to get to it sooner or later, but I kept putting it off. I've got an idea how to do it, at least.
Edit: Well, wasn't too hard, it just isn't pretty. Actually, it's a ridiculously easy fix, so I'll have results up soon. Last edited by Dorcas_Aurelia on Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
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LydiaDianne
 Posts: 5634 Location: Southern California |
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Group B-25
Seven Samurai, Samurai 7 vs. Straw Hat Pirates, One Piece I didn't think that I'd vote this way but this round goes to The Straw Hats because I think that they work more as a team. Group B-26 Outlaw Star crew, Outlaw Star vs. Parakiss Label, Paradise Kiss Outlaw Star - sticking with these guys. Ragtag as they maybe, they do stick with each other. Group B-27 State Section 3 (aka Pumpkin Scissors), Pumpkin Scissors vs. Hotel Moscow, Black Lagoon Hotel Moscow - this one was a bit tougher, but I'm going with HM because of the regret that the Kaptain showed for killing that child who obviously didn't understand. Group B-28 Beck, BECK: Mongolian Chop Squad vs. Gekkostate, Eureka 7 Gekkostate - I've voted for them before and the video clip helped. Stronger team in my opinion. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18454 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Um, I think you're giving Balalaika (the Kapitan) waaay too much credit here. She's not that nice, as that regret was more over Hansel/Gretel (at that point in the story it's hard to tell which is which between the twins since they switch personalities) not being sane enough to truly appreciate his utter defeat. |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Well, results, you know.
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mow123
Posts: 339 |
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Can't say that I am not disappointed that the Knight Sabers weren't able to pull off a clean, especially considering the theoretical two vote swing that they had in their favor. I am also not looking forward to having use many of the same arguments, especially since I do not believe that NERV has a chance to win here. Hopefully, NERV will steal votes evenly, but I really doubt that since both NERV and the Knight Sabers are both older, more classic teams.
Group B-25 Seven Samurai, Samurai 7 vs. Straw Hat Pirates, One Piece No question here. The Straw Hats have the clear edge in terms of cohesiveness, friendship, teamwork, and growth. While it was only briefly mentioned in the previous rounds, there are few moments of extreme recklessness involving the Seven Samurai. The event in question not only shows severe recklessness, but lack of coordination as well. Specifically, a spoiler[ member of Seven Samurai ends up accidentally killing a friendly. ] Group B-26 Outlaw Star crew, Outlaw Star vs. Parakiss Label, Paradise Kiss Parakiss Label - the clear underdog since I almost certain that more posters will be familiar with the Outlaw Star crew. I have been really impressed with the arguments made about Parakiss Label's close-knitness, growth dynamics, cohesiveness, and interesting team chemistry. I am only familiar with the Outlaw Star crew, but I feel only lukewarm towards them, and I feel that they are only here because they have a relatively soft bracket compared to other teams. Like a few of the other crew teams, I feel that one of their biggest weakness stems from the fact it seems that they do not have a strong reliance on each other. Group B-27 State Section 3 (aka Pumpkin Scissors), Pumpkin Scissors vs. Hotel Moscow, Black Lagoon Pumpkin Scissors - I am only familiar with Hotel Moscow, and they are a solid team in certain aspects such as effectiveness and efficiency, but their lack of development and depth is a severe weakness. Not only that, but there is really only member of this team that gets any serious development, and I believe only one other member of this team is even named. Every one is a nameless, but very competent rank in file soldier. We as viewers end up knowing so little about Hotel Moscow even when the series is over, so it is easy to awe when this team leaves a strong impression. I also believe that a lot of their strength as a team comes from the fact it is hard to come up with weaknesses of a team when you know so little about them, and they have so little screen time. Group B-28 Beck, BECK: Mongolian Chop Squad vs. Gekkostate, Eureka 7 Gekkostate - I would be surprised if this is even close. Beck has had some of the easiest match-ups in this entire tournament, and they are simply outclassed by the grander goals, better teamwork, and much more coordinated Gekkostate. It also doesn't hurt that their clip is much more impressive than Beck's clip. |
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Ggultra2764
 Subscriber Posts: 3966 Location: New York state. |
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Match B-25: Straw Hat Pirates (One Piece)
The mentions of early conflict I've heard among the Seven Samurai hurt their chances against the strong bond's of Luffy's "nakuma." Match B-26: Parakiss Label (Paradise Kiss) The Parakiss group actually have a clear purpose to be together from the start despite Yukari's earlier reluctance to be involved with them. While the Outlaw Star crew become a cohesive bunch as their show progresses, it's clear that Aisha and Suzuka's involvement with the group could be questionable as the two have their own reasons for being with Gene and Jim. Match B-27: Pumpkin Scissors (Pumpkin Scissors) More characters to focus on means more individuals to connect with and to see what strengths and flaws they have. It's hard to get any depth from a group like Hotel Moscow if much of the group's focus is only on the leader. Match B-28: Gekko State (Eureka 7) More grand scale goals and greater cohesion and teamwork with their numbers than Beck could ever muster. |
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Skylark
 Posts: 827 Location: ORE NO TSHIRT |
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Group B-25
Seven Samurai, Samurai 7 vs. Straw Hat Pirates, One Piece Straw Hat Pirates - I don't really know much about either, but given the current trend of more knowledgeable people I'd say this is the stronger competitor. Group B-26 Outlaw Star crew, Outlaw Star vs. Parakiss Label, Paradise Kiss Parakiss Label - see above - these guys seem to have stronger support and the information given is more compelling. Group B-27 State Section 3 (aka Pumpkin Scissors), Pumpkin Scissors vs. Hotel Moscow, Black Lagoon Pumpkin Scissors - okay this is the reason I'm voting. Hotel Moscow is a strong competitor, no doubt; but honestly, though their tight-knitness and commitment is shown in flashbacks based on their military heritage, they just can't stand up to Pumpkin Scissors. Those guys were effective in their missions both before and after the employ of their anti-tank mystery man, providing relief and support and showing military presence through kindness rather than brute force. They were clear in their goals, and though it was shown that at first the members had contempt for their leader Alice due to her nobility, they soon realised her genuine goals and ambitions and strove to help her and work with her under her leadership. Even with the initial hesitant reaction of the members under Alice to accept their new member, who had a shady past at best, they continued to work together towards their missions. Possibly you might think they aren't worthy, but I see these guys as one of the top teams in the competition. Group B-28 Beck, BECK: Mongolian Chop Squad vs. Gekkostate, Eureka 7 Gekkostate - This isn't going to be close... BECK might have had it easy with the first couple of rounds but even with just the videos to go on, it should be clear who the stronger team is here. I'll be interested in the next round with Gekkostate versus the winner of HM or PS. |
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