Forum - View topicMalevolent Spirits: Mononogatari (TV) (w/ index).
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Tony K.
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 11446 Location: Frisco, TX |
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Original discussion started here.
---------------------------------- Episode 15 (S02E03): Specter ---------------------------------- Summary: Pending ---------------------------------- Comments: Pending ---------------------------------- Screen Caps:  
 
 
 
 
Last edited by Tony K. on Wed Aug 23, 2023 4:03 pm; edited 7 times in total |
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smurky turkey
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Hmmm, I have some mixed feelings on episode 4. On one hand the good guys got played and as a result the overall situation has gotten a lot more dire and exciting. One the other hand I was hoping for Ryouma to finally let loose and we got barely any of that. The fight was actually pretty underwhelming, though she may have just been part of several umbrellas?
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Edjwald
 Posts: 1586 |
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Sometimes I pay attention to the opening musical sequences, and sometimes I don't. Honestly, it usually depends on where the music falls between bad, ignorable, or enjoyable. I'd say the theme music in this anime falls into the ignorable category, but I did notice that there's a shot of 3 paper umbrellas opening simultaneously. I originally just thought that the villain was hiding in a parade, like in that scene two episodes ago, but now...
Anyway, I thought the fight was good, but it wasn't great. What's tricky about that statement is that I'm pretty sure the fight was supposed to feel a bit anti-climactic and easy to anyone expecting the end all, be all of grudge matches. I base that brilliant deduction on the fact that our reigning grudge lord Hyouma said, "Gee, that was kind of anti-climactic. Was it really that easy?" (<--Not exact wording). But I also have mixed feelings about this episode. For one thing, the idea that there's more than one paper umbrella out there feels like it diminishes the sinister awesomeness oft the paper umbrella that's been established thus far. For another, I wasn't emotionally ready for this Botan being in crisis development. That's the kind of thing that's not supposed to happen until episode 21 or 22. You know, that second to last episode of a season where it's like, "Poop, meet fan. Fan, meet poop. Alright, everybody get ready for the episode long smackdown!". I wanted more lighthearted romance for a bit. That said, I was glued to the TV, and I am steadfast in my fanboying of this show. Hell, I'll even keep watching if it turns out there's a whole passel of paper umbrellas out there, and they belong to an evil organization called S.T.A.N.D. |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 24165 |
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Episode 16
I was not disappointed in the fight. Just like Hyoma got his kick ass entry scene last week, the Bridal Trousseau (sans Kushige, of course) got its calvary arrival scene this week. I tend to be more interested in a battle's fall-out as opposed to the scene itself which tend to be a lot of color, motion and sound but not necessarily something that keenly grips my interest. Unless it's something like Demon Slayer, I generally don't find action scenes particularly gripping (there are other exceptions too, but that's the one that pops into my head). And the off-screen outcome of this battle was a doozy. Turns out it was just a feint and the real goal was to destroy Kushige which thankfully failed but at least succeeded in neutralizing him for a currently unspecified length of time. This is not good. Not only were his barriers protecting Botan from external threats, they were keeping a lid on the marebito inside her. As Old Man Kadomori pointed out, all the various factions who have been in an uneasy truce with respect to Botan are now gonna want input on how the prospect of Botan's marebito manifesting should be handled. You may remember that the Kadomori's proposed solution was simply to kill her... nothing personal. Yeah, sorry Edjwald, doesn't look like there'll be much opportunity for some light-hearted slap and tickle action between Botan and Hyoma for a while... |
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Edjwald
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Oh, yah. As a chess move, it was solid. Sacrifice an important piece to put yourself in the position for endgame. Of course, I'm still not sure who the main player on the other side is. But yeah, Botan having to rely on a malignant old bastard who enslaves spirits for kicks and giggles....hostile tsukumogami on the left....hostile exorcist clans on the right. It's a suspenseful scenario. It's too bad ; they coulda stayed in that dark, other dimensional space with the tsukumogami who used to be a set of armor if he wasn't as crazy as a bag of cats. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2969 |
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#16
First major action set-piece for this arc. Opinions are mixed, but on the balance of things I thought the job was satisfactory. Anime-only viewers would not have seen the twist coming, so it's no surprise the battle is "anti-climatic" when it was never meant to be in the first place. If viewers thought the earlier episodes felt too "fluffy", then they'll be happy to learn there's almost none of that moving forward since the main story arc is now going through the gears. It's easy to assume it was just one Umbrella responsible for the Kunato deaths, but this episode confirms it's not just one entity moving in the shadows. Shigure already confirmed it's not "I" but "We", so expect more to come even though she's off the stage for now. Acting as a lure has served its purpose, especially as Botan is now exposed and is essentially confined within the Kyoto Saenome HQ until the entire organization finds out more about the mysterious assailants. The Nagatsuki actually work as a full team, but Kushige is usually not involved as he's stuck with guard duty on a 24-7 basis. If he does recover, then the Set will be complete. It will also give viewers an opportunity to see what he's capable of, as he's the only one to date who has not been given a chance to shine in combat situations. Given the airtime remaining, it also gives me a good idea where this season will stop. The bad news is there's no way they're going to finish everything, but that's to be expected given how much material remains. On the other hand it means what will be adapted won't be a rush job. How this goes down as far as home video sales is concerned is up for debate, as it's been competent but not spectacular. How this arc is adapted up to the end of the season will also determine if future seasons will be greenlit, as I strongly believe the initial plan was only for two quarters and further adaptation now hinges on the financial performance of the output. |
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b-dragon
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I didn't feel the battle a letdown, especially once the show established it as a feint. It served the purpose of ratcheting up the stakes. How well this works tends to be a matter of hindsight, but I've no particular reason to distrust the story's ability to capitalize on what it sets up.
Glad to see Hyouma varying his "style" especially after Kai (IIRC,) made some statement about the door-pulls being more mementos than the best fit for him- although maybe I read too much into what he said. I do think the transformation sequence was a bit silly, but that's likely a onetime thing. |
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Tony K.
Subscriber Moderator Posts: 11446 Location: Frisco, TX |
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Original discussion started here.
---------------------------------- Episode 16 (S02E04): Draconic ---------------------------------- Summary: Pending ---------------------------------- Comments: Pending ---------------------------------- Screen Caps:  
 
 
 
 
Last edited by Tony K. on Wed Aug 23, 2023 4:03 pm; edited 6 times in total |
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Edjwald
Posts: 1586 |
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Smorgas board of thoughts here
- For me, Hyoma's decision to put aside his sibling's weapons came out of nowhere, and I personally found it surprisingly charged emotion wise. I try to imagine setting aside the last thing my dead brother and sister gave me because if I don't, I'll stop honoring them and start becoming something they wouldn't have approved of...and the only conclusion I come to is...geez, that's rough. - Hyoma and Botan's growing romance has been a very slow build, but you know, based on the last few episodes, I get the feeling it's a pretty solid foundation. Hyoma didn't even blink when Tsubaki tried to pull a little cheap mind game by dangling info about his siblings' killer in exchange for a date-like event. No prolonged "EHHHHH!" like your typical anime protagonist. No anger or agonizing. Just a moment of surprise, then nope, quit wasting my time with this petty nonsense. Botan was rock solid despite the fact that the person who's been her emotional pillar since childhood is MIA. Hyoma's right to praise her for being impressive, but it's not an "as expected, Botan" situation. I guess what I'm saying is, Hyoma and Botan both took some difficult steps in growing up and moving past some of the things they've been depending on to deal with their childhood trauma, and their growing bond is a big part of the reason for it. It would be easy to miss the significance because the show doesn't spend a lot of exposition diagramming this stuff. - From the way Nagi kept unhappily eyeing Hyoma's struggles to come to terms with his own weapon, I wouldn't be surprised to see a "Pull your head out of your @$$ or you're going to get brain damage while I'm kicking it" fight scene sometime in the near future. That is how the two of them communicate. Thought it was great. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2969 |
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#17
The animators have not been afraid to mix things up, and this episode is no different. spoiler[Bringing forward the weapon change segment to this arc is a surprise, although it makes sense as the adjustment was too sudden in the source material and approaching it this way puts more emphasis on Hyouma struggling more to re-establish the bond. The downside is I don't know if they're going to adapt that particular battle later on as it's intrinsically linked to the change, but future adaptations are not guaranteed.] The other part which surprised me spoiler[is the lecture on the Three Families being done by the Nagatsukis instead of the Kyoto Saenome. Probably better done this way as it makes more sense compared to the source material, also seeing the reactions of the Nagatsukis to Hyouma's ignorance has better comedy value.] Bringing Botan's friends at university to the fore in the adaptation is a positive change for me; I always thought that was one aspect which was relatively neglected. It does humanize Botan a bit more; without this she'd be much more of a loner than she's supposed to be portrayed. After last week, it's not a surprise there is no action this week. More character exposition, which is never a bad thing as this is not an action-focused series. Despite the changes (which might divide some of the fans of the source material), the episode doesn't feel like it's all the worse for them. All the important points I remember are included one way or another, and the anime-only viewers are brought up to speed on some lingering questions from season one which are finally answered (notably Kai's parting comment to Hyouma in season one as well as Kai's unusual arrangement compared to the Bureau and the Nagatsuki's). Not sure if I'm watching the same show as everyone else when some scenes are interpreted vastly differently from a different pair of eyes, but misunderstandings will be cleared up as more material is adapted. |
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smurky turkey
Posts: 2674 |
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So, maybe my thinking is a bit weird, but if you want to take revenge on the one who killed your family, would you not go for the most likely option to achieve that? I kind of get why Hyouma chose to use the door handles that his siblings once wielded, but that does kind of handicap himself power wise. Using his actual door handle and making full use of his powers would make his quest much more likely to be achieved.
As for changes compared to the source material, it felt very organic this episode, so I am all for it. I do know that there are plenty of die hard source material readers who despise anything an anime changes though. |
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b-dragon
Posts: 498 |
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I am definitely sold on picking up his own weapon again from a symbolic perspective. Its good stuff- setting aside the fixation on vengeance to prioritize protection, choosing personal growth and a future over the dead-end grief/vengeance cycle. Solid stuff, really.
From a practical perspective, it seems a bit shakier to me- both because he willingly chose not to use his best weapon, and because it seems kind of vague. Why are his own door-pulls a better fit for him, practically? Are they better aligned to his particular energy, more efficient, faster, etc? Thats likely "harder" magic than the show seems to want to go into- and honestly, that's probably for the best. It saves from getting too lost in the narrative weeds. The symbolism is the big thing here, and I think that absolutely works...and answers may come down the pipe for the rest of it anyway. |
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Tony K.
Subscriber Moderator Posts: 11446 Location: Frisco, TX |
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Original discussion started here.
---------------------------------- Episode 17 (S02E05): Moonset ---------------------------------- Summary: Pending ---------------------------------- Comments: Pending ---------------------------------- Screen Caps:  
 
 
 
 
Last edited by Tony K. on Wed Aug 23, 2023 4:04 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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smurky turkey
Posts: 2674 |
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A rather interesting episode this week. First of all, I have no idea what the game plan for the umbrella team is. One would assume that they would go after Botan as soon as her guardians are gone, yet that is not the path they have chosen. They might try to capture one of Botan's family and try to lure her out, otherwise I am not seeing their plan as of yet.
We were also shown some progress for Botan and Hyouma. Be it trying to wield his original weapons and fulfill his oath to protect or not to cower in fear but play an active part in a household that is not very friendly towards you, they are both solid steps forward. As for the revelation about how Botan reacted/gave in after the incident in her past, was anyone surprised? I do wonder what would happen if she gave in and became their god though, world conquering? |
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Edjwald
Posts: 1586 |
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They might not have to lure her out. If the goal is to make her emotionally fragile so that the ...maributo? will break out, and taking out Botan's family will accomplish that, then it might not matter where Botan is. |
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