Forum - View topicFruits Basket (see 2nd post for thread info)
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murph76
 Posts: 3291 Location: Akron, OH |
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I think it was Haru, but I can't recall either. I like spoiler[the summer house chapters, because I think it's the first time Hiro realizes how his attitude towards others hurts Kisa. Kisa's anger at him for being mean to Tohru rattles Hiro a bit, but I think he needed it. I doubt anyone else could have got Hiro to change, even a little. Haru's lecture was needed, but all it got was a "shut up, mind your own business" response.] I like how Hiro's spoiler[protectiveness surfaces from time to time. We see it at the beach house too, when Hiro trys to lead Kisa away after Shigure's perverted comment about swimsuits. In the culture fest chapter, I think it's sweet how stressed Hiro gets trying to protect the oblivious Kisa from the looks and leers of other fairgoers.] -Murph |
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murph76
Posts: 3291 Location: Akron, OH |
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Well, another week has passed, so it's time to introduce our next pair to discuss.
Kyo and Kazuma They are definitely one of the spoiler[healthiest parent-child relationships in the manga. Kazuma depth of love for Kyo is shown shortly after he's first introduced. He risks driving Kyo away from himself and everyone else by showing his true form to Tohru, all to help Kyo heal. For Kyo, Kazuma is probably the first person to unconditionally love him. I'm sure Kyo's mother loved him, but her suicide -- and his father blaming him for it -- leaves a doubt in Kyo's mind. Without Kazuma to pull Kyo out of that situation, he probably would have become the monster Akito accuses Kyo of being.] It's been a long day, so if that is too rambling or doesn't make sense please tell me.  As always, I look forward to reading everyone's comments!
-Murph |
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suna_suna
 Posts: 550 Location: Ohio |
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Kunimitsu best describes the pair as "oya-baka and ko-baka". stupid parent and stupid child. when the two are together you can see what they mean to each other. Kyo tries to stay calm in front of Kazuma, and become more of a true son to him. and Kazuma, he knows what Kyo (and his grandfather) go through better than anyone except Kyo himself.
yes its short, but i need sleep soon. |
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LydiaDianne
 Posts: 5634 Location: Southern California |
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Murph, I'm going to have to disagree with you on your statement that Kyo's mother spoiler[loved him. She didn't. Obsessively checking to see if the prayer beads where still on his arm every few minutes. Then committing suicide. Sorry, if she loved him, she would have toughed it out. Perhaps a bit of a break like what Kisa and her mother had, but, if she TRUELY love him, she would have been there for him.]
As for Kazuma, spoiler[he first dealt with Kyo out of his own guilt of rejecting his grandfather who was the previous Cat. But, I think that he very quickly realized that his guilt was silly and would hurt his relationship with Kyo if he held onto it. Whatever Kazuma is, he is certainly a better father to Kyo than his biological one. Even if he does force Kyo to deal with things that Kyo doesn't want to deal with. But shouldn't parents, on occasion, do that?] |
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murph76
Posts: 3291 Location: Akron, OH |
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That's OK.  I think it's open to debate and I probably should have said as much in my previous post. On my part, spoiler[I think the suicide was driven more by others in the Sohma family deriding Kyo's mother because she was mother of the Cat. I think that overwhelmed her and overrode her love at that time. I don't remember if that's shown outright in the manga, but I think it's strongly implied by Kyo's father. The obsessive checking of the prayer beads could be part of that, but it also could be out of natural motherly concern. I think even a loving mother would be a bit obsessive about checking those beads if they were the only thing keeping her child from turning into that thing, possibly at an inopportune time. Or, possibily my own sentimentality is getting in the way ]
I love how spoiler[excited Kyo got when Kazuma first appeared in the manga. I think it was the first time Kyo was truly happy, or at least so happy he wasn't able to control his expression. And, after his ordeal with Tohru and his true form, I love how Kyo practically gets into a fistfight with Kazuma, all to admit his love and to say he eventually wants to call him "Dad." It's touching to me because it comes right after all the stress and worry about his true form, and it confirms to Kazuma that he made the right choice. Kazuma's first confirmation was Tohru cradling Kyo in cat form after he removed the beads, but Kyo didn't have a chance to say anything, then.] -Murph |
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LydiaDianne
Posts: 5634 Location: Southern California |
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We'll agree to disagree on this point for now. It will be interesting to see, in the future volumes, what will be said concerning this partular subject. That, and I'll have to re-read the volumes (when I make some time) and see what his louse of a father says to Kazuma. |
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Ningensei
 Posts: 333 Location: Seattle, WA |
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Hm, well I can't really comment on whether or not spoiler[Kyo's mother really loved him,] because I really haven't made up my mind on how I feel about that. I am also going to wait and see how things play out and if they explain things a little more.
As for Kyo and Kazuma's relationship with each other, I really love how they interact. spoiler[You can really see how Kazuma has come to love Kyo as his own son, and Kyo growing to accept Kazuma as well. I think when Kyo was younger and rebellious he lashed out at Kazuma (saying that he is not really his father) which hurt him very much, but then Kyo realizes that he really is a father that he loves, regardless of Kazuma being an adoptive parent and not a biological one. ]I hope this makes sense, I was rambling a bit. Heh. |
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murph76
Posts: 3291 Location: Akron, OH |
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I followed you. 
And, we get an interesting comparasion spoiler[between the two fathers when Kazuma is summoned the the main house to meet Kyo's biological father. Kazuma is calm, serene and determined to help Kyo escape his fate, while "dad" is angry, nervous and pretty much wants to lock Kyo away right then. Out of love for Kyo, Kazuma is willing to battle the whole family, if necessary.] -Murph |
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suna_suna
Posts: 550 Location: Ohio |
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I think the greatest line is exactly what you said murph, spoiler[Kazuma is willing to fight the intire sohma family to protect kyo. he will not see another forced to live the life of isolation that his grandfather was forced to.he loves kyo more than he would, i think perhaps, if he were his real son.]
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murph76
Posts: 3291 Location: Akron, OH |
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I wonder how often Kazuma spoiler[inflicted his cooking upon Kyo, when Kyo was growing up? I think that's the obvious reason Kyo can cook. It was self-defense against whatever Kazuma was preparing.]
Kazuma spoiler[also has a nice line after the parent-teacher conference. He tells Kyo that he doesn't care if it takes twices as long as the others for Kyo to decide his future, because he wants to know what Kyo decides. At this point in the story, Kyo's feeling like he can't escape his future in the cat's room. Kazuma's line is telling Kyo he has a right to decide his own fate, not let it be decided by the family. But I'm not sure how much it got through to Kyo, because decision at that moment was to spend his remaining free time, before he is imprisoned, with Tohru. ] -Murph |
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JacobC
ANN Past Staff
 Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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I love that moment. It's so chilling when Kazuma just turns to Kyo's father and says, spoiler["You, who have no heart of a parent, could never understand."] Talk about details tragically missed in the anime: In keeping with Takaya's wonderful habit of not giving her characters traits without reason, we learn why Kyo is such a surprisingly good cook: Shishou SUCKS at cooking. That man could burn spaghetti black, the poor thing. |
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murph76
Posts: 3291 Location: Akron, OH |
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Yeah, but Kazuma feels that he can cook, despite obvious evidence to the contrary. 
Oh, and welcome JesuOtaku! You picked a good time to join in; we've just started a new series of discussions. I look forward to hearing your thoughts. -Murph |
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suna_suna
Posts: 550 Location: Ohio |
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forgive me for leaving the topic, but Yuki can't cook either. he thinks he is lacking in drive. Kazuma thinks that he can do it if he puts his mind to it. ha!
also, Kyo's cooking skills were revealed much earlier in the anime than in the manga. in the mnaga, it was when Tohru was sick. in the anime, it is when Tohru leaves the house. Still, even if Kazuma can't cook, Kyo has such a bright face in volume 9 whenspoiler[he remembers Kyo when he was younger, saying "you even ruined the fish". it is unfortunate that Kyo's father had called right before that sequence.] oh, and i really think tokyopop should change the character intro pages at the start of the volumes, especially considering the recent events. |
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JacobC
ANN Past Staff
Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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They altered the profiles for Rin and Akito. I think maybe Shigure too, but I don't remember.
Ha ha. That Rin one needed to be altered. spoiler[She has the hots for Shigure?] Come on, people! |
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murph76
Posts: 3291 Location: Akron, OH |
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Ah, the profiles. I was wondering what pages you were referring to. I usually skip over them, so I didn't notice that some of them are a bit dated.
Speaking of changes, has anybody else noticed a shift in character design in the past few volumes? I know Takaya-sensei is aging up the characters, and changes will come along with that. Especially with Tohru, her head and face seem thinner, and her hair seem to lay closer to her head. Yuki and Kyo seemed to change in stages, but with Tohru, it seemed like she changed significantly in a short period of time. Or maybe it's just me.
-Murph |
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) who gave him a talking to and told him to be a little more considerate. I think Hiro has grown up a lot and a huge part of that is him wanting to be able to be there and protect Kisa because he couldn't do that in the past.
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