Forum - View topicErrinundra's Beautiful Fighting Girl #133: Taiman Blues: Ladies' Chapter - Mayumi
|
Goto page Previous Next |
| Author | Message | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Alan45
 Village Elder Posts: 10031 Location: Virginia |
|
|||||
|
errinundra wrote:
I would argue that the sinking of her sister ship the Musashi was a more realistic test of battleship vs. air. Granted she was operating in fairly restricted waters, but she was supported by an a fleet. Also the restricted water off Layte protected her from additional submarine attacks. It is not entirely clear that the Yamato's freedom of movement helped her in any significant manner. In any case, it was the complete lack of air cover that doomed both ships. Apparently the Musashi attempted to use her main guns as improvised anti-aircraft shotguns. Have you seen the manga Maniac Road? The first volume is mostly about Japanese ship model otaku. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6585 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
|
|||||
|
I take your point about Musashi. No, I haven't seen the manga. I was just reading the plot summary in Wikipedia - the charactes there also have warship names.
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
Alan45
Village Elder Posts: 10031 Location: Virginia |
|
|||||
|
The father, now deceased, was heavily into highly accurate model making. The girls do not know they are named for warships. The story revolves about trying to save the shop after their father's death. The three volume series and the three volume sequel Pretty Maniacs involve exploration of multiple different hobby manias.
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
Errinundra
Moderator
Posts: 6585 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
|
|||||
|
This housekeeping review was originally posted on 7 March 2013. I was reluctant to post consecutive reviews that were somewhat negative but the Test Baker link was too good to pass up. One of the funny things about this thread is that I'm finding unexpected connections between shows and wandering down alleyways I didn't intend. Anyway, I've done the usual picture changes/additions, reformatting, added one editorial comment and followed my original inclination by changing the rating to so-so.
Gurren Lagann Reason for watching: The main character is a leading contender in the currently running Most Improved Character tournament. Synopsis: Simon is a young man who, over the course of 27 episodes fights ever more violent battles, where his powers grow, his adversaries get stronger and the explosions get bigger. He is joined by allies who demonstrate their manly manliness (unless they’re women, children or queer) and women who booble pointlessly and gratuitously across the screen. All the while he faces up against the most implacable of enemies (implacable, that is, until they become allies and thereafter demonstrate their manly manliness.) The mecha get ever more preposterous, the weapons get ever more destructive and the explosions get even bigger and bigger. If the belligerents start of by tossing rocks at each other; by the end they are hurling big bangs (you know, those things that start universes). The Gurren Lagann protagonists: 
A suicide attack apologist; a boy who becomes a monster; and a rack for hanging weapons upon. Comments: I must admit that I am predisposed not to like anime of this ilk so feel free to discount my negative reaction. For starters I think mecha are dumb. Worse, I’m not at all engaged by boys who supposedly become men by demonstrating time and again how well they can destroy things. Worst of all, I am annoyed when an anime tries to palm off a tired premise by escalating it in ever more absurd variations on the original theme. It may be clever in the first battle or two but it rapidly becomes tiresome. Gurren Lagann seems to be working on the theory that somewhere along the line it will finally pass a point where no mecha anime has gone before. Really, all that changes is the scale – the battles at the end are really just the same as the battles at the beginning. Why am I so annoyed? Because I found it, for most of its run, insufferably boring. There wasn’t a single female character of any consequence. Come to think of it, there wasn’t a single male character of any substance either. Simon went from snivelling weakling to being a one-man threat to the entire universe; Kamina spends much of his time extolling the virtues of suicide attacks; while Yoko was just a rack for hanging artillery upon. Just one word of advice: don’t ever kiss her – you’ll be dead before the end of the next episode. Yes, Gurren Lagann doesn’t like to waste a good idea. Sometimes it re-uses them over and over. And, yes, I get the point: Gurren Lagann isn’t supposed to be taken seriously, but it’s hard to smile when you’re bored out of your brain. You may find my rating higher than this diatribe would suggest. There were things I liked about Gurren Lagann. There are many memorable one-liners [Edit: I'll recant that; I don't remember a single one], I did like one or two of the more comical characters (Viral and Leeron come to mind) and the last few episodes amused me thanks to their visuals, weird science and even weirder arbitrary plot developments. By Gainax standards, however, the ending wasn’t the least bit disappointing, which was, paradoxically, disappointing. Incidentally, I also liked the incidental music. The best things, though, were the explosions, which got steadily more impressive until the recap episode. Thereafter I didn't get quite the same bang out of them - perhaps I had become desensitised. 
I enjoyed the detonating mecha. This one is a frame by frame homage to the famous Test Baker footage. IJN Nagato is one of those black spots. On a political level, Gurren Lagann has an alarming ideology. Simon, Kamina et al represent unconstrained human ambition while, their anti-spiral adversaries are fighting for a sustainable universe. Really, who are the bad guys here? The message is – do whatever you want and someone will figure out a solution to the problems you create. It’s a bit like the world’s current head in the sand approach to climate change. Add to that its non-stop promotion of martial virtues and its thoroughly retrograde attitude to women and what you get is a highly dubious reactionary worldview. This isn’t a series about peace and love as one of the ending themes suggests; it’s actually about getting what you like and stomping on anyone who gets in your way. Rating: decent, mainly because of the humour and the explosions. Yeah, I liked the explosions, though I’m inclined to rate it so-so. 
Well, OK, I admit I do like this sort of thing even if her character isn't all that substantial. Last edited by Errinundra on Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Akane the Catgirl
Posts: 1091 Location: LA, Baby! |
|
|||||
|
Interesting piece! I've only seen Gurren Lagann once, and while I enjoyed the act of watching it, I can't say it's one of my favorites. I think what lots of anime fans forget was that the show was not made for Gainax's usual audience; it aired Sundays at 8:30 AM (the same timeslot that the Pretty Cure anime shares). It's meant for very young children, and as a kid's show, it is perfectly servicable. By the way, my favorite characters were Viral and- surprisingly- Rossiu.
Like you, I also care little about the mecha genre. I'm going to pull the "it's not them, it's me" card on this. The only other mecha anime I've seen besides Gurren Lagann are Evangelion and Code Geass. I haven't even seen a single episode of a Gundam or Macross series, and probably will not for the next five to ten years due to negative experiences with the darker side of the fandom. Needless to say, it left a really bad taste in my mouth. Anyway, I do remember writing a piece comparing Gurren Lagann's take on women versus Kill la Kill's. Would you like to read it sometime? Let me know how you feel! 
|
||||||
|
||||||
nobahn
 Subscriber Posts: 5150 |
|
|||||
|
||||||
|
||||||
Beltane70
 Posts: 3972 |
|
|||||
|
You had me lost for a second there, errinundra, when you mentioned the Most Improved Character tournament as currently running when, in actuality, ended three years ago. I thought that I was missing out on something!
I wouldn't let the negative experiences of fandom affect your enjoyment of anything. You can always enjoy a show without dealing with its fandom. In its defense, Macross is actually more about the characters than it is the mecha. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Errinundra
Moderator
Posts: 6585 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
|
|||||
It's on the first page of the Akane Analyses thread. May I suggest you make an index, Akane.
I've got a fansub of The Super Dimension Fortress Macross sitting there waiting to be watched and reviewed. I've seen Macross Plus Movie Edition, however I was appalled by its underlying attitude towards rape. |
||||||
|
||||||
CoreSignal
 Posts: 727 Location: California, USA |
|
|||||
|
@errinundra, great review. Your review brought up a lot of similar issues I had with the show. Even as a mecha fan, I find Gurren Lagann to be a massively overrated show.
I suspect that many who think that Gurren Lagann is a masterpiece either don't watch many mecha shows or are easily impressed by shallow fight scenes. I say the former because the characters and themes have all been done before in plenty of other mecha shows. It's funny that Simon was voted most improved character since his character arc (and his character in general) is basically the typical teenage mecha pilot that's found in many mecha shows, especially the super-robot ones from the 70s and 80s. There's really nothing groundbreaking, personality or development-wise, about Simon. Same with Kamina and Yoko, the same badass guy and girl archetype but with nothing to make them stand out. For the latter issue, as flashy as the battle scenes are, I actually found them dull towards the end just because it was mostly the same thing, just more of it. Mostly Simon punching and drilling, (and mostly drills toward the end). At least in a Macross or Gundam show you have teams of mecha/characters involved or take Evangelion, where each battle has unique twist. I do admit that the part where they throw galaxies at each other was pretty fun, though. If someone wants to know about Gurren Lagann, I'd probably recommend watching Gunbuster (and Diebuster) or Giant Robo instead since those shows are much shorter, they don't feel as bloated. While I think Gurren Lagann is an entertaining show it's far from a masterpiece.
Good point. That timeslot is probably part of the reason why Gurren Lagann felt very "safe" or plain compared to what Gainax is known for. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Errinundra
Moderator
Posts: 6585 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
|
|||||
|
Thanks for your kind words, CoreSignal.
I'm afraid this week's review won't be an original. I'm 12 of 26 episodes into yet another World War 2 anime that I plan to present next week. In the meantime here's another housekeeping review. I originally posted this just over 3 years ago - 8 January 2013, to be exact. I've done the usual formatting changes and downgraded the rating to very good. Crest of the Stars Reason for watching: This sequence of posts in the Quote Guessing Game starting here and ending here. Although Admiral Spoor had already been on my radar to some extent from the time of the Coolest Character / Biggest Badass Tournament a while back, those posts nudged me into action. I received a bit of Christmas money and Madman Entertainment had given me an on-line discount token to the value of 20% on any purchase so I ordered the series along with Kurau Phantom Memory. (I had a good 2012 Christmas for anime. I used the money to also get volumes 2 & 3 of Toradora! (episodes 14-25 and the OVAs); the complete Eden of the East collection and Claymore - all from JB Hi Fi.) Synopsis: The Abh are genetically modified humans, specially adapted for space travel. Their empire endeavours to control all the space between the various star systems although they tend to be indifferent to what happens on the surface of planets. An alliance of four democratic systems instigate a war with the Abh for control of the space routes. Though not genetically Abh, Jinto is a young nobleman of the empire who must relocate to the capital for military training. When the ship on which he is travelling is about to be attacked by seemingly overwhelming forces the Captain orders Lafiel - a female trainee pilot who also happens to be second in line to the Abh throne - to take Jinto to the capital by shuttle craft. The two form a strong bond as they struggle to overcome the obstacles on their journey. As they travel the war in space intensifies. 
Left: Lafiel and Jinto: smart, earnest and out of their depth. As Jinto (and Baron Febdash) learn, you don't trifle with Lafiel. Right: Another impressive Abh woman - Captain Lexshue, who battles against the odds for her "precious" crew. Comments: I'm going to get my most serious criticism of the show out of the way from the start: the goofy character designs that undermine the characters as they are written, make the series look older than it already is (from 1999) and spoil an otherwise good looking show. For sure, with the exception of Captain Lexshue, all the characters have a comic edge to them but the designs, with heads generally too large for the bodies, thin necks and, in the case of the Abh royal family, long pointy elf ears, push things too far, leaving the script to valiantly try to make up dramatic ground when called for. The pictures I have chosen for this post show the characters at their best but it's still hard to believe that the series is more recent than Cowboy Bebop. The next thing to note is that Crest of Stars is anime space opera in the tradition of Legend of the Galactic Heroes. Even the spaceship designs are a nod to the older series. But, although almost all the characters have a comic side to their roles, this is not the spoof or satire of the kind you will find in such series as Irresponsible Captain Tylor or Martian Successor Nadesico. The humour is more there to temper the otherwise serious tale being told. That serious intention is flagged from the moment the OP opens with its thundering tympani, which never failed to raise my pulse each episode. It was a blessed relief from the J-pop the opens almost all anime (not that that is necessarily bad in its own right) and a vast improvement on the god-awful songs that introduced Legend of the Galactic Heroes. It's also gratifying to watch an anime that takes itself seriously, humour notwithstanding. So much anime has a pretentious nudge, nudge, wink, wink attitude that says that I know that you know that I know this is all a bit of a joke. Yet, for all that, Crest of the Stars is enormous fun. Certainly a lot more fun than LotGH, which took itself even more seriously. It doesn't hit you in the face with political or historical philosophising but various points are made with little fuss. I found myself barracking for Jinto, Lafiel, Lexshue, Spoor et al but, when I stopped to consider what the galactic war was about, it could only be described as being between a dictatorship keen to control all trade routes and a loose federation of democracies trying to assert their independence while, at the same time, getting a slice of the pie. The writers had deftly provided only one point of view - an appealing and memorable bunch of empire characters. You could think of it as Star Wars told from the other side, where Darth Vader and the President have lovable, ironic personalities and where the rebels are nothing but a bunch of scheming opportunists. 
Left: Rear Admiral Spoor steals the show the moment she appears. Right: Inspector Entryua switches from hunting the protagonists to becoming an unexpected ally. The strengths of Crest of the Stars lie in its clever humour, its sharp story telling and its great characters, especially the women. So, thank you to Tuor_of_Gondolin and Key for encouraging me to watch something that hit all the right character buttons for me. Lafiel is initially icy (although I like that trait in a female character) but that stems more from her sense of failure and her wariness towards an unfamiliar male, Jinto. She soon demonstrates her capabilities as a pilot, then her Abh ferocity when crossed, and, finally, her appreciation of the everyday capabilities that Jinto possesses and that she lacks almost entirely. They make a good team. I liked how their initial relationship was expressed by their reserve toward each other, rather than the angry pouting and blushing that happens so often elsewhere. I also liked how their steps forward come through understated acknowledgements of appreciation, rather than florid outpourings of emotion. As much as I like Lafiel as a character, two of the older women have moments when they outshine her completely. The first is Lafiel's first commanding officer, Captain Lexshue, who probably has the most poignant and tragically ironic role in the series. The irony comes through the relationship between Lexshue and Lafiel being deeper than their military roles would suggest, and through Lafiel not knowing, although we do, what the ship's fate is after she and Jinto are ordered to leave. The courage and strength of character of Lexshue are highlights of the series. Even more memorable is Rear Admiral Spoor, who seems to be the most famous character of the franchise. I can understand why - from the moment she appears she puts everyone else in the shade. There's a cruelty about her that is entrancing because it is so gleeful, so witty and so unerringly skewers her victims - in particular her executive officer whom she toys with unmercifully. Her tactical nouse is so second nature that, even when the threat of annihilation is it at its most intense, her greatest problem is dealing with overwhelming boredom. Although the men aren't so unforgettable, there are some choice examples all the same. Chief of the Abh military, Admiral Trife, is a mixture of strategic acumen and incompetence, but saved overall by his desire to have 100 per cent knowledge of the facts before committing to an action. Surrounded by a team of advisors who loathe him, he has the good sense to follow their judgement when it's better than his own. One fellow, in particular, takes delight in shooting down Trife's more reckless plans. Their interactions are hilarious. Baron Febdash is an unctious, weaselly character who rules a planetary system with a total population limited to fifty fawning maids and his imprisoned father. In the hectic final episode, Lafiel and Jinto find themselves hunted by a local policeman seemingly straight out of a hardboiled detective story, Inspector Entryua, and an increasinlgy demented Four Nations Alliance military officer, Lieutenant Kyte, determined to exterminate any Abh within his purview. The two men find themselves increasingly at odds with each other on what should be done with or to the protagonists. Rating: 
Lafiel: I thought the character designs undermined the overall tone of the series. **** The franchise is nothing if not consistent. I've since watched Banner of the Stars 1 & 2, although I haven't reviewed them, and rate them both as very good also. Last edited by Errinundra on Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Errinundra
Moderator
Posts: 6585 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
|
|||||
|
This week's housekeeping review was originally posted on 10 August 2011. In contrast to the previous war-themed anime, this one is a relentless piss-take on all things military. There is, of course, the usual changes. In view of one of my observations below it may be worth noting that I've since watched the original Space Battleship Yamato (see previous page).
The Irresponsible Captain Tylor Reason for watching: Probably because it's directed by Koichi Mashimo, has a high reputation and Madman had it at a cheap price, deluxe packaging and all. They no longer list it - you gotta get in when you can. Synopsis. Led on by her corrupt advisors, Azalyn, the Empress of the Holy Raalgon Empire is at war with humans who, in turn, are led by an ambitious and idiotic military. Expecting a life of ease in the armed forces, Justy Ueki Tylor signs up with the United Planets Space Force fighting the Raalgons. Whether through genius or luck, he becomes central to the resolution of the war. Comments: Early in The Irresponsible Captain Tylor, the eponymous hero, along with other members of his crew, are admiring a magnificent nebulosity from the viewing deck of their spaceship, the Soyokaze*. Within the beauty of the scene is a terrible irony: the brightest points in the luminous cloud aren’t stars but, rather, are the death convulsions of the ships from two opposing fleets – the United Planets Space Force and the Holy Raalgon Empire. The irony actually goes deeper: the battle should never have occurred. The enemy Raalgon fleet had been pursuing the Soyokaze and, due to a miscalculation (or maybe just bad luck) on the part of the United Planets Space Force leadership, is lured to the wrong location. What Tylor and his crew are admiring is what should have happened to themselves. 
"A beautiful woman, nice scenery, and a good drink. What more do I need?" Except the woman is a machine, the scenery is death, and the ship's surgeon a drunkard. This scene beautifully illustrates much of the appeal of this anime. Typically for director Koichi Mashimo such ironies are not made obvious. It’s up to the viewers to make their own observations. This style of straight-faced wit can be very hit and miss: in El Cazador de la Bruja, it is so genial as to be soporific and, in what I’ve seen so far, in Hyouge Mono I’m left wondering if I’m the victim of a giant leg pull. In this 1993 series, however, it all works a treat. With its untypical fast pace for a Mashimo anime, this is easily the most thoroughly entertaining thing I’ve seen from him yet. Credit for its success must be due in part to the excellent script even though, paradoxically, Mashimo is joined by regular collaborators Kenichi Kanemaki and Hiroyuki Kawasaki, who also share credits in El Cazador de la Bruja and Hyouge Mono, many years down the track. Coincidentally, Kawasaki was also a scriptwriter for the subsequent Martian Successor Nadesico, which shares many thematic and stylistic qualities with The Irresponsible Captain Tylor. Like Nadesico, this is a parody of the space opera genre. Although I’ve never seen any of the Space Battleship Yamato franchise, the relationship between all three is obvious. And, again like Nadesico, it is more than a simple parody. What it has, in spades, is emotional clout, thanks to its marvellous characters. You can add to that a heart of gold, thanks to its optimism and to its relentless ridiculing of all things military (something that has been lost in Western discourse over the last decade for reasons I need not go into here). 
Tylor. Genius or idiot? Who cares? He reduces the military to impotence. Everything revolves around Captain Justy Ueki Tylor. Even though he is a slacker in the finest anime tradition, I’ve never, ever encountered a character quite like him. Initially, he comes across as a complete dill. Everybody in the series has the same first impression except, notably, two important Raalgons – the empress Azalyn and her loyal military prodigy Ru Baraba Dom. Tylor's own United Planet Space Force admirals don’t know what to make of him so they give him command of an old rustbucket, crewed by incompetents and misfits. Admiral Mifune sends them to the most dangerous sector of the galaxy in the hope they will be killed. Things aren’t helped when his own crew, to a man and woman, share the common view that he is an idiot. Tylor proceeds to win improbable battles, gain the loyalty of his crew, and steal the heart of the young Raalgon Empress. It climaxes when he is given command of the UPSF fleet and faces off against Ru Baraba Dom in one last epic confrontation. The outcome of the battle is unexpected, gripping, and utterly in keeping with the spirit of the anime. Is Tylor really the idiot we have been led to believe? 
1st row: Azalyn Goza, Empress of the Raalgoon, & her trusted captain, Ru Baraba Dom. 2nd row: 1st Officer Makoto Yamamoto and Intelligence Office Yuriko Star. 3rd row: Navigator Harold Katori and Communication Officer Kim Kyung Hwa. Tylor is not the only entertaining character. His first officer is a by-the-book military scion who can’t make a decision for himself; his intelligence officer is a straightlaced woman who is quick to criticise; his navigator is an arrogant practitioner of Zen meditation; the communications officer is a party girl and one-time model, the ship’s surgeon can only work effectively when drunk; the ship’s nurse is an android Raalgon spy who cannot cope with her emotions; the senior fighter pilot hates women and is inflicted with twin kawaii girl trainees; the mecha marines just want to fight – it doesn’t matter with whom; and the chief cook is smarter than everyone else on board. As an ensemble, they are, at first blush, no more or less interesting than many another zany bunch of anime characters. What’s special here is that Tylor makes them all shine. He is such a goldmine of good natured comic potential that his interactions with the other characters enhance their appeal. He really is that good. A warning, though. As I said earlier, he initially comes across as a fool but, like the crew of the Soyokaze and the Empress Azalyn, he will slowly but surely win you over. 
1st row: Surgeon Hideezaburo Kitaguchi and Nurse Harumi Nakagawa. 2nd row: Fighter Pilot Kojiro Sakai and Traine Pilots Emi & Yumi Hanner. 3rd row: Marines Mickey Cryburn & Karl Björn Andressen and Admiral Sesshu Mifune. There are other Koichi Mashimo trademarks, including the colour palette and the city designs. The character designs are typical of the 90s but that shouldn't be held against them in this instance. It has also has another Mashimo trait in that the watercolour backgrounds are sometimes pedestrian in their palette and composition and other times breathtaking in their beauty. I get the feeling that the series had a relatively high budget. It scrubs up pretty well given its age – almost twenty years. It even has a segment in the three-episode epilogue that would do Mamoru Oshii proud: a disillusioned Tylor wanders the streets of a future, grimy city, with the camera providing a silent commentary on his emotional state in an uncaring world. A minor quibble: there is no mention of the English voice actors in either the credits or on the packaging. Admittedly, I haven’t yet watched it with the dub but I have heard that more than one dub exists. Apparently the first one wasn’t too good. On a related matter, in all the credits Kotono Mitsuishi gets second billing even though Kim Kyung Hwa (the party girl and one-time model) is really just a secondary character. Sailor Moon was first aired less than a year earlier. The impact of that show (she played the lead, Usagi Tsukino) must have been enormous. Amazingly, you can hear the wonderful mid-career voice of Misato Katsuragi and Mireille Bouquet rather than the irritating Sailor Moon squawk. Rating: excellent. Sometimes with Mashimo I get the sense he is not fully engaged with his art, that he is merely going through the motions. Not so, in The Irresponsible Captain Tylor. It has a freshness and enthusiasm that is infectious – as if everyone involved enjoyed themselves immensely. * Soyokaze = gentle breeze, a piss-take on kamikaze, ie divine wind. Also, the Soyokaze is a destroyer in the United Planets Space Force. Destroyers from the Imperial Japanese Navy often had names ending in -kaze (breeze). Last edited by Errinundra on Wed May 27, 2020 5:06 am; edited 3 times in total |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Alan45
Village Elder Posts: 10031 Location: Virginia |
|
|||||
|
I first watched The Irresponsible Captain Tylor when it was coming out on VHS. I got as far as when he was captured by the alien princess and made into her "dog". That was more than I could handle and I quit buying the show. The open question of whether Tylor's actions are him plotting or simply taking the easy way out made this a deal breaker.
Also I think your second reason for the "kaze" name on his destroyer is more likely correct. I can see them taking what you call a piss-take by naming a war ship "gentle" however, I think them being obviously disrespectful of WWII sacrifice is unlikely. |
||||||
|
||||||
Tuor_of_Gondolin
 Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
|
|||||
|
The "open question" about Tylor gets answered within the series, but only if you're paying moderate attention during the "The Empress is Pregnant" episode (I forget which one it is, exactly). There is a point in that episode where Tylor states the reason why he took a certain course of action, and the reason he gives is due to him using considerable intelligence, perceptiveness, and planning. This means that he is capable of acting that way, which means his previous actions were that way as well.
It's that he's so smart and has the personality that he does, that most of the people around him are unable to see it, or don't even seriously look for it. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Alan45
Village Elder Posts: 10031 Location: Virginia |
|
|||||
|
Even if he was doing it on purpose with an underlying plan, his actions at that point were more than I could stomach. I gave the tapes I had away years ago. There is enough anime out there that I don't need to revisit this show.
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
Tuor_of_Gondolin
Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
|
|||||
|
That's fine. Different strokes for different folks. And this show is definitely not something everyone is going to like.
|
||||||
|
||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group