Forum - View topicLusting over anime/manga girls vs. 1940s pinup drawings.
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Samuknight
Posts: 35 |
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I cannot understand this double standards. Anytime you state you have a crush on an anime character such as say Sailor Moon or a comics chick like Wonder Woman, people look at you like you're a socially awkward weaboo. Yet military guys enjoy lusting over pin-up girls and bring magazines along with them or even use them as posters in their lockers or barracks room (or more commonly submarines)!!!
This is especially true for the "GREATEST GENERATION" of American soldiers-just watch any World War 2 flick and its extremely common to see a pin-up girl poster in a submarine or in the barracks or resting hall. Yet nobody bashes the military men of the Greatest Generation for enjoying what technically be cartoon girls. Even women from the same period admitted some of these pin up cartoon girls are JUST PLAIN OUT GORGEOUS if not ******* SEXY!!!! I don't get the difference. They are all just drawings. So why is it fine to lust over or even masturbate to 1930s-40s pin up chicks but to even find an anime or comic book girl as attractive would imply you are socially awkward? This actually goes beyond WWII pinups. I read in some art history books back as far as the Renaissance of people lusting over drawings to the point of exclusively masturbating to them rather than checking out real girls of the period. I will grant though that fans of the erotic art in the Renaissance era were actually spat down by the general populace in the similar light about how Otakus currently are in Japan. But nowadays if you say you lust over Hercules and Deianira, you won't get a "WTF look" the way saying you think Supergirl is really hot or how you believe Sailor Venus it the embodiment of beauty would get you "weird looks" from your average American girl. Even American cartoons have icons who are considered "fine" to lust after as sexy. The primary example being on top of my head is Jessica, wife of Roger Rabbits. Despite the fact that she is somewhat unrealistically drawn in body proportions and facial features. To add to the insult Japan had its share of "fanservice" arts long before manga was created in which traditional woodblock prints often had the "celebrity" geishi, actors, models, and handsome Samurais of the days being sold before the Tokugawa and people of all backgrounds from peasants to 13 year old girls to hardened Ashigaru veterans bought and "pleased themselves" in private to them. So I don't understand this double standards in regards to comic and anime/manga fanservice and why you're a sheltered nerd living in your parent's basement if you find Faye Valentine and Wonderwoman extremely attractive. While finding a portrait of Venus from the 1800s was considered find to stare at and its ok to have pinups of girls who never existed drawn in the style of military WWII art in your locker. What is your take on the topic? [EDIT: Made the topic title less long-winded. -TK] |
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Touma
 Posts: 2651 Location: Colorado, USA |
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If your point is that lusting after a fictional character is no worse, or better, than lusting after a real person that you will never meet, then I do agree with you.
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Alan45
 Village Elder Posts: 10030 Location: Virginia |
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@Samuknight
A couple of thoughts on the subject: Liking, having and displaying a drawn pinup is no problem. Publicly admitting that you regularly lust after it and masturbate to it is "too much information" and pretty much does brand you as socially inept. I should note that even if you have a girlfriend who keeps you continually excited and with whom you copulate like weasels in heat, it is usually not good form to say so publically. During WWII many if not most of the pinups were drawn because the photography and magazine reproduction of photographs was not yet up to Playboy standards. Whether military personnel can display pinup then as now is largely up to the commanding officer. Generally speaking such things are overlooked in a war zone. I should note that when my uncle was killed in action the authorities tore as much of the pinups out of his footlocker as possible to avoid offending his parents. To this day only the legs remain. Keep in mind that, even now, but especially in WWII, soldiers, sailors and airmen in a combat zone had very limited or no actual contact with or access to real women. Pinups were largely a substitute for something not available to them and a reminder of what they wanted to go back to. Using a drawing instead of trying to associate with real women, or worse yet publically proclaiming that you prefer 2D to 3D is in fact socially inept. |
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Lili-Hime
 Posts: 569 |
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I never understood the pinup / celebrity crush thing myself. A lot of friends will go on about this or that hot celebrity guy and I never saw the point because it's like umm... you'll never meet them anyways and even if a chance for a relationship came up it wouldn't be a healthy one due to the power dynamic. Buuut at the same time I'd be seen as more nerdy and childish for having little fake on anime guys (and girls! :3) people don't realize the waifu and husbando thing is really, really tongue in cheek.
Right now it's just an anime stigma though. There are tons of nerds that'll make fun of weeb guys and their waifus then slobber all over harley quinn or poison ivy and girls cosplaying them. So yeah contradiction |
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Why are you going around telling average American girls about the women you lust over? Don't do that. Never do that. Seriously, it sounds like that's about 2/3rds of your problem right there. Women don't want to hear about your masturbatory fantasies. It's creepy. They could be about Jessica Alba and it would still be creepy. It's too much information regardless of the subject.
You're confusing exaggeration with sincerity here. These characters are unabashedly sexual but they're meant as jokes. Nobody is actually supposed to be seriously into them. Or at least, it's no more socially acceptable to be. If you were to tell a woman you lust after Jessica Rabbit (Do. Not. Do. This.) you'd get just as many weird looks as if you say you're into Sailor Moon more or less.
Well, I think a fairly significant distinction is that (unlike the aforementioned Jessica Rabbit) those pin-ups were actually drawn to look photo-realistic, or as near as was possible. The acceptability of being into a drawing of a girl is definitely proportional to how realistic it is. That said, you're not entirely wrong. At the end of the day, there simply is a bit of a double standard. I don't actually think there's anything wrong with it but for whatever reason being into a drawing of a girl is weird but being into a picture of a celebrity you'll never meet is normal. Eh. Honestly, I don't see it as a big issue. As I said initially, this really isn't information you need to share with people anyway and if you are you've got bigger problems. |
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yuna49
 Posts: 3804 |
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Jessica Rabbit was self-aware and understood her purpose as a cartoon character. "I'm not bad, I'm just drawn this way." The same could be said for Betty Boop.
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7994 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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Honestly, I wouldn't do either unless we're talking about hentai or echi series where they're actually sexualized and that's the point. Even then it really depends on the character and I'd keep something like that to myself anyway.
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Alan45
Village Elder Posts: 10030 Location: Virginia |
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The number of people actually interested in your sexual fantasies is likely very limited, unless you are a celebrity. Most likely your sexual partner, if only to know what they have to put up with and your psychiatrist.
Also no woman alive wants to feel she is in competition with Wonder Woman, either the live version or a comic poster. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16963 |
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Wonder Woman is so over rated anyways. Always liked me some Hawkgirl lol. That and Poison Ivy. Redheads.
As for the topic...I think one big distinction that has been touched on is that pin ups were traditionally done in a more realistic manner. You could imagine them as a real person. Kind of hard with a blue or green haired alien anime babe. Crushing on a pin up model would seem more realistic as opposed to said anime babe. I would also point out that the pin up image is something American culture is used to. It's familiar territory so to speak. Where as anime, and any attractive anime ladies or pin ups, is from a foreign culture and not native to us. So difference in culture I think comes into play as well. |
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louis6578
 Posts: 1876 |
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Oh, Kuroneko. No one will ever understand our forbidden love...
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