Forum - View topicFruits Basket (see 2nd post for thread info)
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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Richard, wecome to the Fruits Basket thread! You'll learn quite a bit here and when you have the time, perhaps you'll catch up on all the conversation that has gone on since this thread started.
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Richard J.
 Posts: 3367 Location: Sic Semper Tyrannis. |
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 I am grateful for all the warm welcomes though. (Even if I am a tad late to the banquet.)
Still, I will try to eventually look through at least the discussions of the prior volumes. Hopefully, I won't fall behind. My financial difficulties have finally been diminished by that most glorious thing known as a "financial aid refund check." Plus, I've got a birthday coming and with that shall hopefully come cash. In other words, I can actually get the rest of the series soon! 
For a while, I hesitated to get the manga because I thought that either I'd end up feeling disappointed by the anime or I would feel like I was wasting my money on the manga because I liked the anime better. Strangely, I don't really feel either way. Perhaps that is just the power of Tohru. |
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LydiaDianne
 Posts: 5634 Location: Southern California |
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It's Friday! So that must mean the beginning of another fun filled discussion of Fruits Basket. And this week, it's #6!
In this volume, we get to meet another member of the Sohma family, Kazuma. He is the Martial Arts instructer for the Family and in many ways, he is Kyo's spoiler[real father. Or at least the Father that he should have had.] This is one heck of a volume! It certainly the most emotional volume so far. Because Kazuma has come to do the most difficult thing he has ever done. spoiler[To remove the Sacred Beads from around Kyo's wrist so that Tohru will see his "true" form. It is obvious that Kazuma doesn't really want to do this because he doesn't want to hurt Kyo but, he also feels that it is a necessity to see if Tohru would accept Kyo in anyway shape or form. Tohru is obviously freaked out about the "true form" and has, at first, a hard time dealing with it. But, she gets past that. She actually goes up to Kyo and holds him, telling him that she wants to learn everything there is to know about him, to share things with him. And Kyo manages to accept the fact that he does want to be with her even if she is disgusted by his "true form.' ] In talking to Tohru, Kazuma admitted that the reason that he took Kyo in was to spoiler[atone for the way he had treated his Grandfather who was the previous Cat. But, Kazuma came to love Kyo for himself and wanted Kyo to be happy as well in all aspects of his life.] And Yuki takes one of his biggest steps ever...He spoiler[goes to Ayame's shop! Willingly! Of course, when Yuki asks Ayame if it was alright, Ayame's OVER-THE-TOP  button gets pushed and he lets everyone know what Yuki has asked and his joy over being asked. Of course, when Yuki and Tohru arrive, Yuki becomes rather suspicious when he sees the shop's sign. And his suspicions are confirmed when they go inside and Ayame starts talking about his clothes and "Men's Romance!" After, Ayame's assistant Mine steals Tohru away, they have a chance to talk. And Ayame admits that he feels guilty for treating Yuki the way he did. Cruelly brushing away Yuki's hands at a time when Yuki needed to be protected by his older brother. And he admitted that it scared him that because of that, Yuki might never want to have a relationship with him. And Ayame also realized that they may never see eye-to-eye because they are two different people but they could try to understand each other.]
What a terrific volume! Edited for Volume # mistake! 
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aya_honda
 Posts: 920 Location: Around here |
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Hey, Richard, I'm just so happy that you joined us! I didn't expect this when I came here this morning to see what has been discussed so far.  I have lost somehow a lot but still I'm happy that you joined us.
Now, coming to #6.... ummm, I love ths volume. I know I said this before about the other volumes but like a true fruitsbasketholic, I can't help myself: I have to repeat it.  I love this volume.
Yeah, I agree with you, LydiaDianne: at th beginning spoiler[Kazuma's atonement was to raise Kyo, but I think that one couldn't have resisted Kyo as a chld. He was so sweet (in a totally motherly tone  ). But what was even more important was that Kazuma was so beneficial for Kyo: if it wasn't for him I don't know what might have happened to Kyo. I think that what I admire the most at Kazuma was his courage in taking off the bracelette because it meant many things: firstly that Kyo might hate him even if he was to come back to his true form; secondly Kyo might have remained in that monster-form-like and refuse to return. Kazuma is one of the few people that understand the horrible things that were done to Kyo and the fact that the child thinks no good of himself. It was strange sometimes to see Kyo giving credit to everybody else except to him. ]
You know, it was also very nice the fact that the episode when spoiler[ Tohru discovers his true form is treated in a very realistic manner. I would have expected that Tohru might not feel that disgust and fear for Kyo aka the monster but Takaya-san succeeded in challenging us all again. ] It's a beautiful message and I loved that part a lot. People might see the worst of you and still love you and understand you. |
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murph76
 Posts: 3291 Location: Akron, OH |
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I think Kyo's spoiler[transformation] is one of the best moments in the manga. And, I think it's a scene the anime totally butchered. I'll be interested to hear Richard J.'s comparison of the two, if he cares to share it.
I can't imagine the spoiler[depth of love on Kazuma's part for him to force Kyo to deal with his true self. He risked Kyo rejecting him, and probably rejecting the entire world, and he risked Tohru rejecting Kyo when they had just begun to build some trust. ] But I think spoiler[his goal was more than just seeing if Tohru would accept Kyo's true form. I think Kazuma's goal was to get Kyo to accept his own humanity. Even though he wanted to hide it, I don't think Kyo had any trouble believing himself to be that monster. After all, that was all he heard from Akito, his father and the other Sohmas. And, he knew that prison was a possibility for his future. As Kazuma states in a later volume, he wants a better future for Kyo, and his first step in that was for Kyo to accept who he is, both monster and human. By forcing Tohru to deal with Kyo's true form, risking complete rejection and utter failure, Kazuma also allowed Kyo to find acceptance and understanding as both monster and human. I have to credit Tohru's honesty. She admits she's scared out of her mind, but she doesn't want to reject Kyo out of that fear either. Even when she was wounded by him, by his fear of rejection making him want to drive everyone else away first, Tohru doesn't let go. Her emotions, both the love and the fear, bring Kyo back. He admits he's found what he's always wanted: Someone who understands and accepts him. ] The image spoiler[of Tohru -- dirty, bloodied and exhausted but smiling -- cradling Kyo in cat form while bringing him back to the house is very sweet and very telling of their future relationship and interaction.] Well, I think I'll cut this off now before I write my own story.
-Murph |
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aya_honda
Posts: 920 Location: Around here |
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I really thought at that moment when he spoiler[hugs her that he won't transform but of course it hadn't happenned and I was very glad because it had to be road that they had to beat all those odds against them. ] Nevertheless I had the same impression when watching the anime: probably because the scene is made in slow movement and therefore it seems that just for a small moment the unthinkable might happen. And I know that I'm bringing an old topic that we have discussed before but this is what I hated the most in the anime: they minimalized this episode which said so much both about Tohru and Kyo.  But I won't go on....
What I also enjoyed very much about this volume was the episode when Yuki went to spoiler[Ayame's shop. I liked the fact that Ayame proved to care about something in his life. I know that Ayame understood that somehow he sold Kyo for his freedom. He didn't care what happened back then to Yuki as long as it didn't happen to him. It was so nice to see that Ayame is so much more than one might have expected. ] 
Oh, and Murph you could have gone on... I think that none of us would have minded. 
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Richard J.
Posts: 3367 Location: Sic Semper Tyrannis. |
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First, I was a fan of the anime before the manga, so I admit that this may be coloring my take on things a little, but the way the anime handles things is something I could see happening. The key change with the anime was the presence of spoiler[Akito] when Tohru was experiencing her only real moment of hesitation. That sent Tohru on a different path because spoiler[Akito] rather effortlessly manipulated her. That is his greatest talent. Plus, the anime wanted to use it as an ending, so they had to make it a little more dramatic. And use it to tie up a few loose ends, like with how they brought spoiler[Yuki] into it. Second, the manga version is just perfectly Tohru. It proves that all the kindness she has shown, all the things she's said, were real. This is the moment that proves to any doubter that Tohru Honda really is the nicest person ever. Also, it shows that spoiler[Yuki is doomed if he wants a romantic connection with her. Doomed]. I prefer this version to the anime version, but I do think that the anime version works. (It's just not as good.) spoiler[It really suffers due to the whole Akito element, which largely invalidates Kazuma's choice to remove the beads by making it more of an Akito issue. Bringing Yuki into is also a problem, though in character. Tohru's doubts were born of Akito's words and a desire not to hurt Kyo, so I didn't feel that what happened was out of character for her.] The part that really struck me with that entire arc though, beyond all the spoiler[Tohru and Kyo shippy moments], was Kyo's memories about spoiler[his mother's "love."] That part of Kyo's past is just heart-rending to read or watch. In some ways, it's worse than Momiji's situation. Never accepted yet never rejected either. Plus, people blammed Kyo spoiler[for his mother's death!] Kazuma's acceptance of him, and his actions, were born of a surprisingly selfless love for Kyo. spoiler[To be willing to risk everything by removing those beads because he believed that this was the best chance for Kyo's happiness, even when he knew it could cost him his relationship with his "son," even though he expected to lose that connection, that's an act of true love. Much like Tohru's acceptance of Kyo's true form.] Like I said, any other suitor of Tohru's spoiler[is doomed to failure.] Ayame and his assistant Mine's shop, I can't think of it as just Ayame's, and spoiler[Yuki's slightly horrified reaction to it], was a great companion story for the deep drama of spoiler[Kyo's transformation]. Although to be honest I only truly care about spoiler[Tohru in Ayame's masterpiece]. So cute! So adorable! So perfectly suited to her! Also, it's nice to see a bit of seriousness from Ayame. spoiler[His regrets about brushing Yuki aside when they were younger, his fears about never having a relationship with his brother,] they prove that there really is a decent human being under all that nutiness. Plus, if he and Mine aren't a perfect match, I don't know who else could be. I rather hope to see something more with these two down the road. I wish I had the volume with me right now, so I could add any other thoughts, but unfortunately, I had to borrow my sister's copy! (I only have the first three on my shelves but hope to have more soon!) I apologize for the long post and for the many spoiler guards. |
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LydiaDianne
Posts: 5634 Location: Southern California |
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Make as long a post as you want with as many spoiler tags as you need. I certainly don't mind. I also liked the anime version of Tohru's spoiler[seeing Kyo's transformation] but I have come to enjoy the manga version more. Both give Kyo the spoiler[love and acceptance that he needs] but it obviously tried to be an ending in the anime and really didn't succeed. |
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Ningensei
 Posts: 333 Location: Seattle, WA |
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Of course as a spoiler[Kyo-Tohru ]fan I also loved this volume.
 The whole spoiler[transformation sequence is just so touching, but I think everyone has already expressed how I feel about it. I also think that the anime did not do the manga justice at all. By having more people (Yuki, Akito, her friends, etc)present in the anime, I feel like it somehow detracts from what Tohru did on her own, despite being scared and whatnot. Everything worked out in the end though, and in addition to what aya_honda wrote I also thought for a split second when Kyo hugged Tohru at the end that he would somehow not transform.] Or maybe that is just what I wanted to happen. Heh.
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aya_honda
Posts: 920 Location: Around here |
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You and me both, Ningensei, you and me both. The thing is we begin with this volume to understand that the story between spoiler[Kyo and Tohru is larger than life, with a perfect ending of the transformation. It was vital for Tohru to admit that she is afraid of him and that she can't do anything against it except to be all the more desirous to know him and share every burden with him. ] I liked very much what Richard said about Tohru: I do belive her to be by far the nicest person in the manga and that will be also observed along the road though we discover her little terrified secrets like the fact that she spoiler[imagined her father to be an enemy just so as to make everything easier for her].
I think that Kyo's memories show a different type of pain in the relationships with the others. Just like Momiji's story and later on many other stories, it reflects the difficult relationships that exist between spoiler[parents and children. This has been by far one of the main themes approached by Takaya-san and especially the cruelty that appears whether one abandons or tries to accept the weirdness of their children. Kyo is the one who suffers the most for the simple fact that firstly he is the cat and therefore outside the zodiac, secondly he transforms into a monster and finally not only he is condamned for having murdered his mother (well, pushed her to commit suicide) but also he is also totally rejected by his father later on.  ] So these memories just are the tip of the iceberg and what will later on come impresses us very much. This is why spoiler[Kazuma's unconditional love and later, Tohru's gesture to come after him although he is a monster] are so important for Kyo's growth as a character.
Don't apologize, Richard, you could have written even more. I think none of us would have minded. And nothing really tragic happened to me. Maybe just life....
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Richard J.
Posts: 3367 Location: Sic Semper Tyrannis. |
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And speaking as someone who often feels as if simply being alive is a very wearing experience, life can sometimes be the greatest tragedy we face. Still, try not to let things get to you if you can avoid it. (At the very least, there's good anime and manga out there to enjoy.) Geez, do I sound a little fatalistic right now or what? Sorry about that. |
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aya_honda
Posts: 920 Location: Around here |
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Thank you.
But I have to mention here something.... How could we forgot about Kagura? I mean, poor Kagura with her irrational acts and burts of fury is one of the most charismatic characters that we have. I particulalrly laughed at the moment when spoiler[she comes to their house and Kyo closes the door, saying that it's closed for ever.  She obliges him to open it and then go shopping. It's just such a funny moment and it also shows that Kagura is one of the few people who know the true nature of Kyo's curse. She helped him a lot as a child to be accepted in such a manner, although we all know now that the acceptance has been made at the beginning due to some selfish reason. ]
I just admire Takaya-san for being able to link serious moments with less serious ones in order to create a perfect mixture of realism and emotions. I think I love this manga just a little too much....
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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With what little time I have I just can't ignore posting about one of my favorite series. Volume 6 is a pinnacle of the series, because spoiler[it sets the mood and the stage for what will come of many characters throughout the later volumes. The true nature of Kyo is revealed to us, and how far Tohru is willing to be accepting of people really comes down to that moment that we see in volume 6. Everybody knew something was happening, Shigure, Yuki, Kagura, yet they weren't going to get involved at all, because of their Zodiac nature. And that's where the anime just botched it up.] I'll have to think of something else but until then...
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murph76
Posts: 3291 Location: Akron, OH |
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I finally picked up Vol. 17 and the Fanbook - Cat the other day. I know they've been out for a few weeks, but lately all my money has been going to other projects. The Fanbook is very interesting. I'm enjoying it very much.
Richard, I enjoyed reading your thoughts on the anime. You make some very valid points. Keep in mind that I read the manga first, but for me spoiler[the presence of just about every character in the series during that scene was a real distraction. The main emphasis of that scene in the manga, which I feel is very important to the overall Furuba story, was Tohru chasing Kyo on her own and accepting him -- monster and all -- on her own. The anime had every character encouraging Tohru to chase Kyo, which I feel was unnecessary given Tohru's nature to think of others before herself. Also, because of that same nature, I feel Tohru's depression in the anime was a little forced. I don't believe the emotion to be out of character for Tohru, but I think the resulting collapse and total lack of action was. Another gripe I have with the anime is that Kyo wounded Yuki, not Tohru. I think it added a layer in the manga to have Kyo strike Tohru, but still have her accept him in spite of it. But, as Richard pointed out, it did make for a nice climax to the anime, and was a good way to wrap up the series when so little of the manga had been produced at that point.] Yuki at Ayame's shop was just too funny! Yuki's reaction spoiler[to Ayame running toward him in that wedding dress had me laughing out loud. I think Mine thrives of the tension created by Ayame. She's probably the only one outside of Hatori and Shigure to really understand Ayame. I think Mine makes a good point about arguing. If you truely don't like a person, you don't pay him or her any attention at all much less start an argument with them. Yuki's arguing with Ayame and his arguing with Kyo shows that Yuki at least acknowledges them as people. Not his best friends, but not ones to be completely ignored either.] Well, I think that's enough for now.
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Ningensei
Posts: 333 Location: Seattle, WA |
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The Fanbook has been released? I haven't seen it in bookstores yet so I had no idea! Where did you purchase it from?
Murph, I also pretty much share your opinion word for word on the whole spoiler[Kyo transformation] scene that you so eloquently put into words.
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