Forum - View topicWhat's wrong with editing anime?
|
Goto page 1, 2 Next |
| Author | Message | ||
|---|---|---|---|
|
jmays
ANN Past Staff
 Posts: 1390 Location: St. Louis, MO |
|
||
|
A while back I ranted about Steven Foster's tendency to churn out English scripts that bear little resemblance to the original Japanese ones. After seeing Colorful last weekend, I'm tempted to backtrack a bit.
In one sense, Colorful is typical Foster, meaning I have to question whether he even read the Japanese one before writing his own. Going by my old reasoning, that should incite disgust and outrage. But on the other hand, the script is so hilarious that I really don't care how much it was changed. It's kinda hard to protest something when you're laughing out loud every fifteen seconds, and Foster's Colorful is really, really funny. I honestly prefer the "butchered" English script to the original Japanese one. The same goes for Tokyopop's "tricked out" Initial D. A pimped-out script like that would make purists cry, but I think it fits quite well into the category of the unintentionally comical. The whole Iggy/wazzup/dude/bitchin' thing is so much funnier than the rather dry and straightforward Japanese script. In fact, if I ever watch Initial D again, I guarantee you it'll be the dub. Humor's a major factor in my preference for the English versions of Colorful and Initial D (Samurai Pizza Cats, too), but I think apathy comes into play as well. As I sat staring at a few episodes of G-Force/ Gatchaman/ Battle of the Planets/ whatever, I honestly didn't care which one was "truer" to the Japanese show. I enjoyed what I saw, so why should it matter how closely it resembled whatever the creator had in mind? Maybe it's because I'm not too familiar with the show, but that doesn't hold much water because I grew up on Robotech, and I can't bring myself to get too excited about what was spliced into what. Unlike so many "hardcore" fans who want to crucify Macek, I just want to sit back and have fun with the show. So I'm wondering: is there really anything wrong with performing reconstructive surgery on an anime series? If company X pays for the license to a series, can't they do whatever they want with it? I think the simple way to please everybody is to include an unedited English version along with whatever adaptation a domestic company puts together, but when it comes to entertainment value, I really don't care which is which. I refuse to dislike a series simply because it's edited, and respect for the creators be damned, I'm loving some of this edited stuff. |
|||
|
|||
Cassandra
 Posts: 1356 Location: Birdsboro, PA |
|
||
|
Woo!! Someone else who thought Colorful was funny!!
I don't mind if something is changed or anything. Ideally, I'd like an unedited subtitled version to go alongside it...in the rare case that I get curious enough to know what the "real" version was all about. I'm in it for the entertainment value. (What?! TV shows are supposed to be entertaining?! Why didn't anyone say something earlier?!) If it's a good show, I'll watch it...it doesn't matter if the character's name is Sam instead of Bob or something. |
|||
|
|||
Tenchi
 Posts: 4561 Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer. |
|
||
|
See, I tend to be rather pragmatic when it comes to so-called TV hackjobs. For the shows I care about, like especially Cardcaptor Sakura, I am perfectly content to ignore the kiddy TV dub as long as there's an intact, subtitled version on DVD. I'm not saying I particularly *liked* Cardcaptors, just that I rarely bothered even watching it and I never let the changes they made bother me because I knew Nelvana was aiming it at an audience two decades younger than I am. I could have gotten upset and I could have ranted about evil "Nelbaka" on message boards everywhere until I wore out the keys on my keyboard, but it would have accomplished nothing because Nelvana bought the rights and I didn't and the simple truth is that the money to be made from the kiddy TV market through sales of associated toys, games and other merchandise is a lot more lucrative than the money to be made from sales of intact, subtitled DVDs to the anime purist niche. (I remember that Cardcaptors proved to be somewhat of a flop, but that was because it never really found much of an audience with the kids, not because of anything the anime purists did.) I'm just grateful we got the sub. Same deal with Saint Seiya; if you don't like what DiC did to it for the kiddy TV market, just ignore Knights of the Zodiac and buy the sub.
Some will argue that "Just ignore it and buy the sub." isn't fair because they can't afford to buy DVDs and rely on TV broadcasts for their anime fix. Well, the world's smallest violin is playing for them. There are plenty of anime series not playing at all on television here, yet people manage to buy them somehow, and anime is a hobby, not a right. I can't afford to buy every anime series I want either, so I just choose to "go without" much of the anime I want. Besides, the existence of Knights of the Zodiac and Cardcaptors would really only be an issue if they were keeping the intact versions from airing on North American television, but, for better or for worse, because of the way things are, that's not about to happen. Other fans oppose changes made to anime on principle. I admit respecting the idea of "artistic integrity" of all anime sounds good on paper, but, usually, it's not a pragmatic position to take, simply because, to a Japanese licensor, most anime is a product first and foremost and they are perfectly willing to go along with any and all changes suggested by the American licensee in order to get it onto kiddy television in the world's most lucrative television market, and, in the case of Toei with Sailor Moon, the Japanese licensor is sometimes even proactive with the editing, removing specific episodes or even entire seasons (re: Sailor Stars) from circulation in North America (in order to protect Sailor Moon's "family-friendly" image). I'm just glad Toei finally agreed to let at least the first season of Sailor Moon be released in an intact format over here, though I don't blame DiC at all for what they did to the first two seasons of Sailor Moon, since 1995 was a completely different era as far as anime on television is concerned and they did what they had to do to get it on the air. Plus, I have this idea that often it's the North American fans that care more about the artistic integrity of the anime which air on kiddy TV than even the people on the creative side of things in Japan. For those series based on manga, really, for the most part, if the manga creators were all that concerned with their artistic integrity, they likely wouldn't agree to have it animated in the first place, since it's a lot easier to have full or near full artistic control of a manga than it is with an anime, since you're dealing with an editor or two versus a whole slew of people at an animation studio who then have to deal with the network guys and the sponsors. I know a handful of manga-ka like Akira Toriyama choose to exercise a lot of control over what happens to the animated versions of their work, but they're the exceptions... some of them have all the artistic integrity of Stephen King, who likes to get big cheques from studios in exchange for keeping his mouth shut over what he thinks of the changes made. Just so no one accuses me of being another Shadowwave, in the interest of full disclosure, most of what I wrote in the fourth paragraph is cut-and-pasted from a post I did in this thread in the Anime Nation forum as Kiyone, since I'm too lazy to paraphrase what I wrote before. |
|||
|
|||
|
Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
|
||
|
I think your assertion is reasonable, to a point. The edited versions can be entertaining, but you will simply piss off too many purists if you release something edited only. I see no probelm provided the original is available.
I never understood why people complained so damn much about CardCaptors. Pioneer released the subtitled, uncut version of the series alongside Nelvana's ill-fated train wreck and yet people STILL went on and on about the edits, as though they just couldn't help themselves. When you have access to the original, why complain about the edited version? If there's an exhibit of Michaelangelo's David (although comparing CCS to David is sacreligious in my mind, it works here as a metaphor) where he has a pair of jeans on in the room next to the original, what is there to complain about? You can see the original. Nobody's forcing you to watch the edited version and they've given you the option of seeing it uncut (or, in David's case, cut, I believe. Zing!). Fans just like to complain. Visit the Anime on DVD forums if you don't believe me. That having been said, the same goes for Initial D. They give you both versions (edits in the subtitled dialogue regarding the one girl's sugar daddy notwithstanding), so why complain? You can choose which version you like and run with it. I've seen dubs that change the dialogue around and wound up really enjoying them. It's become a cardinal sin to excize even one minor scene or line of dialogue from any anime ever created, and American fandumb will crucify whoever's responsible regardless of the circumstances surrounding the edit. It's a kneejerk reaction and frankly, I'm sick of people whining about such things. -Z |
|||
|
|||
|
Tenchi
Posts: 4561 Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer. |
|
||
|
Oh yeah, that reminds me... "Team Sexy Madam" seems to be no more, but their "95 Theses Against Fandumb" lives on through the wonder of the Internet Archive Wayback Machine.
|
|||
|
|||
|
jmays
ANN Past Staff
Posts: 1390 Location: St. Louis, MO |
|
||
Wow, now that's something I'd love to shove down a few throats...though I was once guilty of calling it "Sailormoon" just because I thought it looked cool. ^^;; |
|||
|
|||
JETBLACK87
 Posts: 1073 |
|
||
|
but isn't all the same as what Miramax did to Shaolin Soccer? the original was great. but, they needed to dub it, cut it, and add a remixed version of Kung Fu Fighting. if you don't like the original don't watch it. just don't touch it. if Steven Foster is so good at writing, why doesn't he write something original? they don't have to go and edit Raymond Burr into movies.
|
|||
|
|||
|
Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
|
||
|
Miramax gave in to pressure and is releasing Shaolin Soccer uncut and subtitled in to theaters. Don't judge everything by the trailer.
-Z |
|||
|
|||
Legato 2057
 Posts: 437 Location: Soon to be Japan |
|
||
I found that out very quickly when I checked out the forum. I went to a thread on the new Initial D release expecting to see some rants on the "tricked out" version. I started reading the thread, nothing all that new that I hadn't read somewhere else. Until I got 5-6 posts in. There were people bashing the show, Tokyopop, everything even remotely realated to the show. Yet many of the posters admittingly had never even picked up the dvds, they had simply seen a picture or maybe even seen the trailer. I've read stupid posts before (written my fair share too  ) but I've never seen so many ignorant people discussing one topic before.
I posted my rant saying as much. Never bothered to read it and don't intend on ever visiting there again. Wait, was the topic of this thread again? *looks* Oh Yeah!! Editing Anime! I don't really have problem with editing anime as long as the original is available for me to choose also. Sometimes the edited/dubbed versions are just as good or better than the original. I thought the dubbed version of Vandread was excellent, definitely equal to the Japanese track IMO. Editing anime is essential in todays market, If a story is just as powerful/emotional without a little bit of blood or an extra sword slash, I think it is OK to edit it so that it is accessible to a wider audience. Granted I would be anoyed if I could not get the unedited version. |
|||
|
|||
|
Tenchi
Posts: 4561 Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer. |
|
||
|
I also love the argument you see on anime boards sometimes "You wouldn't modify the Mona Lisa!" Umm... actually, advertising artists have modified the Mona Lisa hundreds, if not thousands, of times in the past to sell all sorts of products, but the original is still hanging intact on the wall of the Louvre, just as the original, unaltered Cardcaptor Sakura and Saint Seiya are available to the people that care.
|
|||
|
|||
cyrax777
 Posts: 1825 Location: the desert |
|
||
|
I dont like #22.
22. If you are downloading and viewing entire episodes of a show online, please take up a sport. If you are the one encoding, uploading, and storing the episodes (and you're not doing this under contract with the license holder), please take up a potentially deadly sport. Unless there reforing to episodes of stuff commercialy avalible. Ie I can go buy/rent some of it. |
|||
|
|||
|
Aaron White
Old Regular
Posts: 1365 Location: Birmingham, Alabama |
|
||
|
Actually #22 has a point. I never met anybody who downloaded entire series, licensed or otherwise, who wasn't fatter than Fatty Fatterson. Turn off that computer and go get some fresh air!
|
|||
|
|||
|
JETBLACK87
Posts: 1073 |
|
||
|
"16. Anime is a luxury item; if you can't afford it (tapes, soundtracks, toys, cels, anything), you don't need it, period. Find free public showings or start a tape trading club..."
isn't a puplic showing illegal? isn't that what it says in the FBI warnings at the beginning videos/dvds? and I think trading might be illegal also. |
|||
|
|||
|
Cassandra
Posts: 1356 Location: Birdsboro, PA |
|
||
For public showings, you need to get permission from the license holder. Then it is not illegal. |
|||
|
|||
Inu-Yasha
 Posts: 373 Location: Quad Cities, Iowa |
|
||
|
Editing is ok as long as the original ver of it remains intact. When something is edited I try to find out what was edited and then watch it in its pristine form.
|
|||
|
|||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group