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The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya (TV).


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frentymon
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Joined: 27 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:24 pm Reply with quote
Keonyn wrote:
I haven't seen it all yet, and I do like it quite a bit, but best ever? Or even one of the best? That I don't see. I usually don't download anime but when something is so overhyped it's hard to not take a look.


I rated this series "Very Good" after Episode 13. "Masterpiece" after the final episode.

This is just one of those series in which even 90% is not enough to make an accurate assessment. Granted, you may likely feel the same way about the series even after watching the whole thing, but the last episode is the largest piece of the puzzle.
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selenta
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:03 pm Reply with quote
Yeah, I do have problems with these sort of things: hype. The sad thing is that Haruhi will eventually drop from it's number one spot and not neccesarily because of anything in the series.

I would bet nearly anything that if many of the same people giving this show an "excellent" or "very good" just so happened to come across this show without encountering this hype, they would have given it a 10 and would be part of the hype.

The problem is that if it doesn't live up to the expectations you form in your mind no matter how good the show is, you dislike the show for not doing what you hoped it would (I know my expectations are usually unrealistic). There are other shows I like more, but Haruhi gets the top rate in my opinion. No matter how I look at it, this is the best produced show I've ever seen, and not by a small bit; this is the single BEST piece of anime I've seen overall, maybe it's not LEAGUES ahead, but it absolutely earns it's spot in my opinion.
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Steroid



Joined: 08 Oct 2005
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Location: At home, where all good hikikomori should be
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:06 pm Reply with quote
The Animenation's equivalent to Answerman gives an opinion very close to my own.
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Mylene



Joined: 07 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:31 pm Reply with quote
selenta wrote:
I would bet nearly anything that if many of the same people giving this show an "excellent" or "very good" just so happened to come across this show without encountering this hype, they would have given it a 10 and would be part of the hype.


Personally, I gave Haruhi an excellent because of the hype. Otherwise, it would have been lower. I like to take into consideration my own views as well as the views of others when I rank things. I'm not the type to balk at something just because it's hyped. I figure that means there is something very likeable about the show (even if I didn't like it). That being said, I do really like Haruhi, and with all the points it wins with great animation, music, and a good story, it ends up in my 'top ten', even if there are plenty of anime that I enjoyed viewing more than it (I do not allow myself to rank my anime subjectively, even for my personal, non-shared lists). It lacked certain subjective, unexplainable, intangible qualities that I need for a show to be a 'true favorite.' But it had all the objective stuff down pat.

Still need to sit down and rewatch the series chronologically. It'll be interesting, plus I'll get some more Yuki goodness.
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Barciad



Joined: 11 May 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:47 pm Reply with quote
It was the hype, or to be precise the unrealistically high chart position, that prompted me to see it. To be honest, I was not the first, and most definately won't be the last person to do so. Hype might get a program watched perhaps once, but for it to be watched repeatedly, then a certian degree of substance would be required.
My basic description of TMoHS after having seen the first 13 episodes would be to call it the most original and inventive anime I have seen since FLCL. To be more precise it comes across as some golden-age Gainax production that they never quite got round to making. Setting courtesy of His and Her Circumstances, characters courtesy of Evangelion, logic courtesy of Fooly Cooly.
Superb stuff, and roll on part 14, depending of course if that will actually be part 14.....
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PantsGoblin
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:54 pm Reply with quote
After seeing it all, I have to say that I really, really enjoyed this series. It was something very new and fresh, which is one of my prime reasons for liking it. I rated it "Excellent". A lot of the series is filler and they mangaged to still keep it new and interesting which was pretty impressive. I am hoping that they will make a sequel also. And I really want another amateur filming episode like the first one, that is actually still my favorite episode believe it or not.

Although, I'm kind of hesitant to bring this up seeing what happened last time... but I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed the oddly large amount of "Worst Ever" rating this anime has recieved. I know there are people who spam "Worst Ever" rating for almost every popular anime, but 30 is kind of a lot compared to all the others and it was just 27 when I looked yesterday. It's not the ones where they vote in many different languages, but ones where all of them were input by different people (or someone who has created multible accounts)... the rating bar has barely moved at all if you compare it to the "Good" ratings the anime has recieved (which is actually less). Guess that shows how credible the people who submited them are...
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frentymon
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:04 pm Reply with quote
I should come clean now -

Had this not been a Kyoto Animation production and some other studio produced it, I would have given this an "Excellent" instead of "Masterpiece," even if it was the exact same thing. Had this been a GONZO production, I would have given this a "Very Good". Ah, the bias.
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Darc_knight



Joined: 03 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:17 pm Reply with quote
I can't believe people decide to vote on an anime before they entirely watch it. I can surely understand if they are some sort of aliens, time-travelers, or espers, but to be a human, that should be a felony. But anyways, this anime is clearly a masterpiece. I loved the way the different episodes were put together. Having a series only with 14 episodes and having episodes not in chronological order is something so unique that it is great. Also, I thought that the final episode was just remarkably done. I loved the way they did not show anything beyond what was necessary.
I may have said I would write bad comments about The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, but I won't. I think this anime is far too good for bad comments. It is not my best anime, but it is still one very good anime.
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unhealthyman



Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 306
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:31 pm Reply with quote
People should just chill out about the whole rating thing. Theres no special prize for an anime coming first, all that matters is if YOU enjoyed it. Its a subjective thing. There is often a general agreement about good/bad art, but its not like winning gold at the olympics - people can prefer other things and still have a valid view. Even if your favourite anime has a really bad ANN rating, it shouldn't matter to you.

However, I still thought this was a brilliant series and I look forward to rewatching it soon. The story was very nicely put together, but it was the fascinating idiosyncratic characters and storytelling that really made it for me. Kyon was such a brilliant narator and the interaction between all the characters was fantastic in my mind. I don't really care if it was the 'best ever' but it was a series that really made me WANT to watch the next episode.

This anime put a really big smile on my face, for just about every episode I watched, and thats what mattered to me.
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selenta
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:09 pm Reply with quote
unhealthyman wrote:
People should just chill out about the whole rating thing. Theres no special prize for an anime coming first, all that matters is if YOU enjoyed it. Its a subjective thing... This anime put a really big smile on my face, for just about every episode I watched, and thats what mattered to me.


Yeah yeah, I know I get caught up in things sometimes and I'm kind of upset I get so defensive about this show. However, my number one pet peeve isn't that people don't like something; its that they would bother to come and bitch about something without even trying to back themselves up in the slightest. But then again, I guess this is the interent huh? Rolling Eyes
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Anthony P



Joined: 27 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:01 pm Reply with quote
frentymon wrote:
I should come clean now -

Had this not been a Kyoto Animation production and some other studio produced it, I would have given this an "Excellent" instead of "Masterpiece," even if it was the exact same thing. Had this been a GONZO production, I would have given this a "Very Good". Ah, the bias.

Ain't it the truth, though? I mean, in a way it's bias, but I highly doubt the series would have stood out as much if any other studio had done it. The accuracy with which Kyoto animated the instrument playing in ep 12 alone still boggles my mind.
selenta wrote:
However, my number one pet peeve isn't that people don't like something; its that they would bother to come and bitch about something without even trying to back themselves up in the slightest.
Oh, I agree. Except I wouldn't really call it a pet peeve; a pet peeve is something that irritates you for no logical/rational reason whatsoever. You've quite good reasons for being irritated when people can't back up their opinions with solid reasoning and examples.
Steroid wrote:
The Animenation's equivalent to Answerman gives an opinion very close to my own.
Said opinion is well-thought-out and quite reasonable. I do have a couple of problems with the Ask John article, though:
Ask John wrote:
Because of the show's disjointed narrative structure, the series lacks an unfolding sense of narrative development. Each episode feels encapsulated, so viewers never get a sense of the characters evolving. We don't see them changing; we just see them changed. Major events which should be intensely dramatic feel isolated and ultimately insignificant because they're not placed in context and their impact on the future is never illustrated. Rather than introduce viewers to characters, then depict the characters encountering major epiphanies and allow viewers to see how the characters react and mature, and allow viewers to empathize with the characters, the show simply drops elements on the viewer in random order. It may be fun to assemble the puzzle pieces, but the processes eliminates any sense of discovery, empathy, and amazement.
Yes, I understand the problems Mr. John has here. But he's overlooking something; how hard would it be to go back and watch the episodes in their proper narrative order? Granted, nearly everyone's initial viewing of the series would be in the order it was aired, but I still don't find Ask John's argument all that relevant when the series can be viewed in a different order easily.
Quote:
Furthermore, although Suzumiya Haruhi herself stereotypes Itsuki Koizumi as a mysterious transfer student, all of the major characters in the show are stereotypes, to one degree or another. Haruhi is the short tempered, aggressive heroine that we're seen before as Chidori Kaname from Full Metal Panic, Kaoru Kamiya in Rurouni Kenshin, and Tomo Takino from Azumanga Daioh. Kyon is the typical passive male protagonist from slice of life anime. He's similar to characters like Hiroyuki Fujita of To Heart and Kenji Tomosaka from Lamune. Yuki is the robotic introvert in the vein of Nadesico's Ruri Hoshino, Evangelion's Rei Ayanami, and Ninomai Kisaragi from Happy Lesson. Mikuru Asahina is the shy and easily embarrassed klutz, similar to Ai Yori Aoshi's Taeko Minazuki and Mahoromatic's Minawa Ando. The characters are interesting and fun, but not ground breaking.
The parallels he's drawn between the characters from other series are stretched rather thin. Just because a story's characters share some superficial similarities to characters from other stories does not render them stereotypical.
Quote:
I think that the fan reaction to the Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu anime is based more on how viewers interpret and relate to the show than on criticism of the animation's technical qualities, which is a perfectly reasonable reaction to anime.
Well, sure, but doesn't interpretation and personal relation apply to any piece of artistic media? And isn't the ability to make something that can be easily related to require a certain amount of technique anyway?


Last edited by Anthony P on Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Stupidman007



Joined: 02 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:20 pm Reply with quote
As far as the ratings go, I think the only thing that seriously hurt this show is the number of votes inbetween very good and worst ever. Nevertheless, with something that many people like, there're always people who are going to disagree. However, with things that are more hyped, the degree of difference become magnified. However, if one judges this series on a rational overall scale, it would be extremely hard to give it a poor rating due to its high quality animation and sound.
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Steroid



Joined: 08 Oct 2005
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Location: At home, where all good hikikomori should be
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:37 pm Reply with quote
Anthony P wrote:
Steroid wrote:
The Animenation's equivalent to Answerman gives an opinion very close to my own.
Said opinion is well-thought-out and quite reasonable. I do have a couple of problems with the Ask John article, though:

I understand the problems Mr. John has here. But he's overlooking something; how hard would it be to go back and watch the episodes in their proper narrative order? Granted, nearly everyone's initial viewing of the series would be in the order it was aired, but I still don't find Ask John's argument all that relevant when the series can be viewed in a different order easily.

Well, in Haruhi order, everything after episode six is just slice-of-life with characters we know about, while in broadcat order, it provides information we don't know. It other words, however good SHnY is, it's not very rewatchable.

Quote:
The parallel's he's drawn between the characters from other series are stretched rather thin. Just because a story's characters share some superficial similarities to characters from other stories does not render them stereotypical.

No, but it does mean that the characters are not some completely new method of building characters who are going to become stereotypes in anime for years to come.
Quote:
Well, sure, but doesn't interpretation and personal relation apply to any piece of artistic media? And isn't the ability to make something that can be easily related to require a certain amount of technique anyway?

Yes, but what bothers me in particular is the personal relation of so many anime fans, who should be reasonably iconoclastic, to a show that, in the last analysis, stands against iconoclasm.

Of course, the comfort I might take is that since I thought the show was only average, that I'm far more iconoclastic than the rest of you sheep. Anime smile
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frouella



Joined: 05 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:48 pm Reply with quote
A few bones to pick with Mr. John:

Quote:
Rather than introduce viewers to characters, then depict the characters encountering major epiphanies and allow viewers to see how the characters react and mature, and allow viewers to empathize with the characters, the show simply drops elements on the viewer in random order. It may be fun to assemble the puzzle pieces, but the processes eliminates any sense of discovery, empathy, and amazement.


Actually, I would say that it makes the sensations of discovery, empathy, and amazement even more profound because they happen in the viewer's own mind. It isn't always necessary to show people everything to get them to understand it.

Quote:
Despite the fact that the Suzumiya Haruhi anime relies on anime stereotypes and conventions as much as it parodies them, the show does work.


Um, it's relying on them because it's parodying them.

Quote:
It's a little bit disappointing to find that what Suzumiya Haruhi really wants is, in fact, not overtly what she thinks she wants.


And we all know that never happens in real life... Rolling Eyes

Quote:
The Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu anime is a vibrant and energetic show that winks at the audience, letting them feel like they've discovering something unique and unusual.


Quote:
Viewers like myself who don't personally identify with the cast observe the show objectively and find it enjoyable, but not a masterpiece.


Mr. John, I hate to interrupt, but you've got a little bit of pretension on your face right, no, a little to the left -- yeah, right there. I'm sorry, but "letting them feel like they've [sic] discovering somthing unique and unusual" and "Viewers like myself...observe the show objectively" is just condescending, and makes it painfully obvious that you're in fact NOT being all that objective. Why not just come right out and say, "Aww, look at the stupid widdle anime newbies -- aren't they just too cute?!"

Quote:
whether it's great is a matter of highly individual personal taste


And I totally agree with you there.
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Vortextk



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:50 pm Reply with quote
Someone's a sheep because they similarly think an anime is good? So you don't like anything popular?

Not to mention, you just sound like the "emo song"
"I'm an emo kid, nonconforming as can be. You'd be nonconforming too if you looked just like me." Do you have to revel at the fact that you don't like a popular show? I don't really care one way or the other, but if a person hearing nothing of the hype ever, likes the show, what then? What are they and how do you classify them?


With that said, I finally finished up the series today. I think Excellent is a 9/10 here? Right? I'd give it that, but I don't really rate anime on the site. I just never do.

It's funny reading the first couple of pages where people wished it would stay a simple comedy/slice of life kind of thing. While it definitely stepped out of the easily believable world, it never stayed there too long. Because of the added elements to it, I enjoyed it much more. It really does seem like atleast an 8/10 or possibly 9/10 for me, but it doesn't seem to have hit me very hard.

At the end of FLCL...Honey and Clover...Elfen Lied...and Gungrave, something just struck within me and I knew these were to be some of my favorites ever. While Haruhi seems so good and I really enjoyed it, I don't know. It's somehow different. I hadn't really read anything of this thread other than a few of the first posts here before starting the series, but just knowing it had raised into like top3 in the rankings and had a 30+ page on it gave it that "hype" feeling that I hate. I don't care about hype one way or the other, but it forces me to watch a show when I'd rather just stumble around, find something that I think will be enjoyable, and have it turn out amazing. It's hard for me to ignore something this prominent. Hype or not...it seems stupid to ACTIVELY judge something good or bad based on that.
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