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I noticed they were left out of One Piece, which was a bummer. However I think they're good because you get to see characters not in the manga that you may or may not like. They also give the manga artist a chance to get ahead so the anime doesn't catch up to the manga, because when that happens they end the anime with a crappy ending. In fact, watching the fillers of OP was what got me into reading the manga. Do they waste people's time? I think they're a gamble on the anime producer's part. How they make the filler's will determine whether they can draw an audience to keep watching the show.

What fillers were left out of One Piece? If your talking about the american version of the anime, I guess your right, but they also left out the entire Little Garden story arc which wasn't filler, and the 2 episodes with Laboon and I'm sure I'm missing some others. Yeah, most everyone, even hardcore One Piece fans agree that we could have done without the Senenryu story arc but still, the reason why a whole bunch of episodes were left out was so they could get to Tony Tony Chopper faster who is the most marketable character in the series in 4Kids eyes.

Now on to filler in general, yeah, it is necessary. They allow the manga artist to continue drawing the manga at a regular pace so we don't end up in a situtation similar to Hellsing/Ruroni Kenshin where the show went past the anime series and had to create it's own story line which in the end crash and burned in it's face. The only time when filler becomes annoying is when it annoys the viewers. Compare comments made about Bleach filler to comments made about Naruto filler and you'll see what I mean.

If you define fillers like me, as extra material created by the animators of a show based off of a manga, I hate them. I hate them so much it's indescribable. The animators aren't the ones who wrote the original and a good majority of the time they directly conflict or detract from the intended purpose of a show.

There are more examples of this than I care to count... but I'll use the simple example of Naruto:

spoiler[Right before the fillers started Naruto and his friends were becoming quite strong. They may have had to sacrifice themselves to do so, but they managed to take down opponents who had defeated Jounin, not a "small" task. You can argue just how strong they were, but they were definately growing quite quickly and decisively. Naruto was also leagues above most of them, even if he had to use the Kyuubi, that is his advantage. But in the filler what happens?

The animators decided to "bring the show back to it's roots" and make the show funny and see everyone doing lots of missions. Here's the problem: it is VERY clear that one of the major themes behind this show is that life and people have a dark side. There are huge long epic segments of the show without a single break in the tension, if anything, the tension grows as you learn more and the characters develop.

Do you really think this is on accident? Do you really think the writer just "couldn't find time" to fit in any more fart jokes? Do you really think any sensible person would spend 140 episodes building up the growing strength of his characters only to spend 40 more episodes undoing all that hard work and detailed storytelling?]

That is why I hate fillers as I defined them. It's the animators taking their own lisence to change a work of art/literature (however you want to look at it it's copywrited) to make it better fit their own personal wants, which nearly always make the show more childish. If I wanted to watch happy go lucky anime characters travel without a care in the world I'd be watching pokemon. I would infinitely prefer waiting a few more months, or even years for the series to finish so that fillers are not needed.

However, a show that is NOT based on a manga and thus filler would have to be defined as: not related to the main story. This I have no problems with, most of these shows are either short and thus have relatively little other character development or are ginormous shows that span decades (it seems like anyway) where it turns out the vast majority of it is filler. Either way, if the show IS the original, then it isn't "filler" in my mind, it's just character development, world adjustment, or time management.

Some fillers have their moments, but in One Piece's case the aspects are negative. I'm sure that the Toei writers worked hard to do something original, and not in the manga, but the result is that some characters act out-of-character.

A lot of what I would say has already been said. But another thing, fillers are sometimes necessary from a technical perspective, because anime, like it or not, has quotas. For some reason, the producers absolutely have to produce the amount they said they would--which is really stupid, in my opinion.

Some fillers don't waste time as much as one might think. A character in a side situation has different reactions, and just by showing it, you learn more about the characters involved, the story, and the world its set in. Even though it may not have anything to do with the main story, its still may be important to the work as a whole.
But don't get me wrong; its true, a lot of filler content is crap, though.

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That is why I hate fillers as I defined them. It's the animators taking their own lisence to change a work of art/literature (however you want to look at it it's copywrited) to make it better fit their own personal wants, which nearly always make the show more childish. If I wanted to watch happy go lucky anime characters travel without a care in the world I'd be watching pokemon. I would infinitely prefer waiting a few more months, or even years for the series to finish so that fillers are not needed.

Wow. That's intense/unneccesary hate right there. Filler can't be the company wanting to change a work of art/literature as you put it. If they could leave a property unchanged, they most likely would. If they wanted to change the property, they most likely would change it at the very beginning. The reason for filler is either because the series has passed where the manga was and they need to make something up to keep up the viewers and the cash flow, or because they want to give the manga creator enough time to complete another chapter and continue the series to flow with the rest of the manga. Also, you might be willing to live with waiting for years for a show to continue on with a story, but I don't think a ton of japanese people (the original viewers) who have a plethora of other shows to watch, or even american viewers are going to be willing to do that and I am sure that a production company is not going to waste money on a potentially dead series when they can just pick up a fresh new title and make even more money. It's a buisness, not lets pander to the hardcore.

morsmaestro wrote:

Some fillers don't waste time as much as one might think. A character in a side situation has different reactions, and just by showing it, you learn more about the characters involved, the story, and the world its set in. Even though it may not have anything to do with the main story, its still may be important to the work as a whole.

True, you may get to see a soft side of a character you never thought they might have. But fillers are coming at the expense of the show's creators, so they should think wisely when creating the story.

It's true outlaw, I do "hate" fillers. Is it unnecessary? Arguably.

I am completely aware of the realities of the industry and that they do have to produce episodes continuously until the show is done and while I wouldn't object (and would probably applaud) the animators if they took a 3 month break from a show to let the manga catch up, what I was saying I prefered was a little different.

I would prefer if they talked to the original creators and arranged the show to start airing at a time where the manga would be finished before the show. Thus there would be no need for fillers or gaps in show production in the first place; also, japanese and american audiences wouldn't really be waiting on anything since the show hadn't started airing yet, and once it started the story wouldn't stop (because it didn't have to) until it was done.

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It's a buisness, not lets pander to the hardcore.

I really really don't like this comment. That's like saying what 4kids does to shows is "ok" because they're just trying to make money. Anime is a form of art/literature, I'm not saying this because I just magically want it to be, but because the people who make it treat it as seriously as any writer (maybe a lot more so). I'm not saying they shouldn't make anime or anything, I'm saying if they're going to make a show out of an already existing work, treat it as such, not as your corporate money making machine. (if the head people at 4kids don't even really like anime, and have never even READ a single manga, why would they wish to "help increase exposure" for anime? bullshit, they just want money)

outlawwolf wrote:

What fillers were left out of One Piece? If your talking about the american version of the anime, I guess your right, but they also left out the entire Little Garden story arc which wasn't filler, and the 2 episodes with Laboon and I'm sure I'm missing some others. Yeah, most everyone, even hardcore One Piece fans agree that we could have done without the Senenryu story arc but still, the reason why a whole bunch of episodes were left out was so they could get to Tony Tony Chopper faster who is the most marketable character in the series in 4Kids eyes.

Now on to filler in general, yeah, it is necessary. They allow the manga artist to continue drawing the manga at a regular pace so we don't end up in a situtation similar to Hellsing/Ruroni Kenshin where the show went past the anime series and had to create it's own story line which in the end crash and burned in it's face. The only time when filler becomes annoying is when it annoys the viewers. Compare comments made about Bleach filler to comments made about Naruto filler and you'll see what I mean.

Oh wow the One piece debate again, at first i hadn't seen 4Kidz One Piece because it hadn't featured on the SOuth East Asain Version of CN, but now it does, and to be totaly honest with you, i was like wow.
4Kidz rocks, seriously, i was so worng beleiveing in these net tales

Here are the negative

1. Skipped around say 20 episodes if you wanna be really overboard
2. Replaced the opening
3. Edited the violence

Now here are the positives

1. Brought One Piece to SOuth East Asia which has over a billion viewrs who recive CN, (yeah beat that VIz, Funimation etc, none of you guys did this, we donot get any Naruto, Full Metal Alchemist etc)
2. Replaced stero-typical cheapster Japanese voice actors for the pirates with authetic Pirate accents, also blended in great accents for other key characters, n i loved Captain SHanks accent.
3. Reduced the violence so that kids can give up repetivive garbage like Pokemon and Beyblade and watch Shonene greatness in One PIece.

4KIdz version of One piece is greatly underrated by these fansub gurus on the net, but they can't change the fact that literaly 4kidz made History by making there shows available to billions while Naruto and the other lesser edited shows are aired in some select countires.

@vickeyv: Who made this thread about 4Kids in the first place? I was asking if Fighterholic meant when they took out the filler episodes of the Senenryu arc and the main story episodes of Little Garden. To argue the pros and cons of the 4 Kids edit of One Piece is a totally different topic to be talked about on a separate thread. You want to argue that, make one.

@selenta: Since when did 4kids make filler episodes? The ones responsible for filler episodes are the original production companies. In One Pieces case, it's Toei. Also, it doesn't make a difference how you, 1 fan, feels about the way manga/anime should be viewed because in the end, what it is is a means of entertainment meant to bring in money. If it didn't make any money, manga would never be distributed and anime would never be produced. Literature or art, it still makes money and people are going to do their best to make the most money out of the product.

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I would prefer if they talked to the original creators and arranged the show to start airing at a time where the manga would be finished before the show. Thus there would be no need for fillers or gaps in show production in the first place; also, japanese and american audiences wouldn't really be waiting on anything since the show hadn't started airing yet, and once it started the story wouldn't stop (because it didn't have to) until it was done.

For some shows, this is all well and good when the manga is nice and short. Deals like this have been made for shows like Death Note, maybe even Azumanga Daioh and I'm sure others. But you cannot possibly ask this for long running shonen series like One Piece, Naruto, DBZ, or Bleach. When the manga hits it's peak in popularity or starts a steady climb, thats when anime producers decide that it's time to strike, not when the manga is done which could be years and years from then. They make the anime during the popular manga's run so that manga creator and anime producer get the most sales and highest amounts of viewers because in the end, it's still business. I'm not in support of 4 Kids views at all, but I'm a realist and this is the reality of it all. This is why fillers in these cases are necessary to allow the manga creator to make more chapters of the manga so they can eventually work the story in. It's out of necessity, not out of want.

Last edited by RezSav on Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:18 am; edited 1 time in total

that guy wrote:

What fillers were left out of One Piece? If your talking about the american version of the anime, I guess your right, but they also left out the entire Little Garden story arc which wasn't filler, and the 2 episodes with Laboon and I'm sure I'm missing some others. Yeah, most everyone, even hardcore One Piece fans agree that we could have done without the Senenryu story arc but still, the reason why a whole bunch of episodes were left out was so they could get to Tony Tony Chopper faster who is the most marketable character in the series in 4Kids eyes.

What about Luffy, he's pretty marketable. Why, just take a look at this toy that 4kids put out

All in all, they don't need Choppy --

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The ones responsible for filler episodes are the original production companies.

I'm sorry, I didn't really make it clear, I just meant I dislike editing of a show by both the animators and the american liscensers, regardless of intention.

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Also, it doesn't make a difference how you, 1 fan, feels about the way manga/anime should be viewed because in the end, what it is is a means of entertainment meant to bring in money.

That's part of what I'm complaining about, and I think South Park put it best when the kids were trying to put together a band and Stan said to the effect of: "Well if we're artists, we should just make music because we're artists, not because we're in it for the money. We should be stoked if anyone enjoys it enough to give us money for it." That's my opinion on how these things should be dealt with: not half-assedly in the pursuit of profits.

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But you cannot possibly ask this for long running shonen series like One Piece, Naruto, DBZ, or Bleach.

Why not? It would have meant at most a 6 month delay on the release of the first episode. The manga had already been out for a while, a few more months of hype and anticipation wouldn't have hurt no matter how you look at it.

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I'm not in support of 4 Kids views at all, but I'm a realist and this is the reality of it all.

No, you're not, you're a defeatest. There's a difference.

That may be how it is now, but that doesn't mean it's right. I'm convinced that anime would do better stateside if it was brought in as the original content, gore, and adult themes included. Even if people are intially confused about some things, they come to appreciate most of it as time goes on.

Case in point: the Greeks have 4 different words for "love" that describe all the different types, but Americans seem to forget that there is more than one type. (of course.... the japanese only have 2 words, it's just more accepted there they can mean things other than romantic love... but you get what I mean I'd hope Smile

).

vickeyv wrote:

Oh wow the One piece debate again, at first i hadn't seen 4Kidz One Piece because it hadn't featured on the SOuth East Asain Version of CN, but now it does, and to be totaly honest with you, i was like wow.
4Kidz rocks, seriously, i was so worng beleiveing in these net tales

Here are the negative

1. Skipped around say 20 episodes if you wanna be really overboard
2. Replaced the opening
3. Edited the violence

Now here are the positives

1. Brought One Piece to SOuth East Asia which has over a billion viewrs who recive CN, (yeah beat that VIz, Funimation etc, none of you guys did this, we donot get any Naruto, Full Metal Alchemist etc)
2. Replaced stero-typical cheapster Japanese voice actors for the pirates with authetic Pirate accents, also blended in great accents for other key characters, n i loved Captain SHanks accent.
3. Reduced the violence so that kids can give up repetivive garbage like Pokemon and Beyblade and watch Shonene greatness in One PIece.

4KIdz version of One piece is greatly underrated by these fansub gurus on the net, but they can't change the fact that literaly 4kidz made History by making there shows available to billions while Naruto and the other lesser edited shows are aired in some select countires.

What does this has to do with whether fillers are necessary or not? Can you provide some insight on your opinion of filler episodes, please?
Yes outlaw, I'm referring to all those lost episodes of One Piece.

selenta wrote:

Quote:

But you cannot possibly ask this for long running shonen series like One Piece, Naruto, DBZ, or Bleach.

Why not? It would have meant at most a 6 month delay on the release of the first episode. The manga had already been out for a while, a few more months of hype and anticipation wouldn't have hurt no matter how you look at it.

With Naruto, Pierrot got to 130 episodes before catching up to the manga, and only had a small handful of filler episodes in that time. Waiting an extra six months isn't going to change the fact that eventually, with a long running series, you're going to catch up.

Or you could always go the One Piece route, where you don't have to air a new episode every week and remain around 40 chapters behind the manga. It means constant off-weeks, but it means less filler.

Well, to start I find both Naruto and One Piece to be pretty mediocre shows, and when I refer to One Piece I refer to the dubs as I've never even seen 4Kids version nor will I as I didn't even like the original.

As for filler being necessary, no it's not. Nor is it always a bad thing though. Filler can be effective in lightening the mood of a series or simply taking a break from the story so that it isn't overwhelming and doesn't feel so ridiculously dominant that it detracts from the believability. Sometimes it's nice to know there's really some character there rather than just event after event until it's all over which isn't always a practical approach. Not saying filler is always good, simply saying that it isn't necessarily bad either.

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