Forum - View topicBest First Episode Tournament: Post-Mortem
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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People voting against Death Note's first episode for their own personal moral reasons is bias. Me voting against Hanasaku Iroha's first episode because I wasn't impressed with the episode and because I believed that its competition was stronger is not bias.
I don't write gibberish in those post reports you know. If you had read them you'd know what was going on. Or you could have just read the posts in the thread, that works too. Last edited by dtm42 on Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ggultra2764
 Subscriber Posts: 3966 Location: New York state. |
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Ten votes in thus far. Based on my rough count, Eden of the East has a solid lead by four votes at the moment in the first match while the second one is a tie. By the looks of it, Match #2 is gonna come down to the wire with how tight it is while Hanasaku Iroha will have to pull several consecutive votes if it hopes to prevail against Eden of the East.
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Might as well vote now.
Semifinal 1: Eden of the East has a strong first episode. It may not have the sumptuous visuals of Hanasaku Iroha but it still looks (and sounds) good. The show has a great premise, the episode has an interesting cliffhanger and I thought the characters were much stronger than in Hanasaku Iroha. I don't like the whole pants and Johnny scenes - they are uncomfortably far-fetched - but overall the episode is a gripping one. It impressed me and made me really want to watch more. I cannot say the same from Hanasaku Iroha's first episode; I only watched more of the series out of inertia rather than any real desire to see what happens next. Vote For: Eden of the East Semifinal 2: I am annoyed that Death Note was knocked out but I do not hold it against Seirei no Moribito. I am not as enamoured with the episode as others but I do recognise that it is a strong and competent effort. I have already stated in previous rounds why Haibane's Renmei's first episode was not memorable for me. Now granted, memorability isn't very high on my list of criteria, but it is most of the difference between these two episodes which are fairly close. Vote For: Seirei no Moribito |
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infiltration.cru
 Posts: 321 |
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Group A/B Semifinal
Eden of the East vs. Hanasaku Iroha I really like Hanasaku Iroha a lot, which- I guess- is pretty obvious by now. And I also love Eden Of The East. Both series are great for very different reasons, as are their first episodes. While both do a magnificent job in introducing their main characters, I think that Eden Of The East is still some steps ahead for the way it surprises with a unique premise and a really old school espionage thriller feel to it. Vote for: Eden Of The East. Group C/D Semifinal Haibane Renmei vs. Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit This semifinal pairing is very similar to the first one in that it pits an episode filled with action and moving the plot forward in a rather fast pace against a more silent, subdued and slow-paced one. Once again, two great episodes and it's a tough choice. While Haibane Renmei was emotionally intense, Moribito was visually overwhelming and suspenseful, hinting at a quite epically scaled adventure. In the end, Moribito sucked me in immediately, and while Haibane Renmei's first episode does impress, it's not as amazingly good as Moribito's. Vote for: Moribito. |
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marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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I agree with your count, Ggultra2764. With the two votes after, Eden of the East now has a pretty solid lead that I have a feeling isn't going to change.
Moriboto is ahead but only by two atm so it's definitely the one to watch.
Slightly OT but I just started my re-watch of Eden of the East and because of this comment I actually watched the ED for the first time and I'm so glad I did. I have to admit, I generally turn the ep off when the credits start (which made me miss extra scenes in Bunny Drop for a bit ... and I also almost didn't notice the AMAZINGNESS which is the ED of Welcome to the NHK). |
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Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6584 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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Happy to have given you the tip, marie-antoinette.
~ ~ ~ I know this is somewhat belated but I want to respond to something Spastic Minnow wrote and that Key commented upon.
In my write-up in the nomination I listed one of the Moribito episode's achievements as its "subtle social commentary". It's interesting to me, Spastic Minnow, that the three examples you give would be my prime examples of this commentary at play. When Balsa arrives from Kanbal, Yogo is portrayed as a peaceful and prosperous nation but things are not as they first seem. Let's take your first example - Balsa eating in the town square. What struck me the very first time I watched the episode was the contents of the meal. It's mostly meat. In our modern, western diet we are so accustomed to meat that we find it difficult to imagine that in medieval times meat was a luxury reserved for feast days (hence the name). That the majority of Yogoans can also take meat for granted is, I think, a crucial point that's being presented to us. That's all very well but we soon see that the Yogoan nobility's approach to food makes a mockery of the marketplace meal. As a matter of course, Balsa is provided with enough food to feed thirty, presumably to ensure that amongst all the choice there is something that will suit her taste. The bath view and the bed linen reinforce this. As a contrast, the shanty life of Saya and Touya - they live behind screens underneath a bridge - demonstrate the underbelly of Yogo. Not only are we getting an introduction to important characters in the series, we are also getting some economical but impressive world building, including insights into the political and social realities of Yogo, and a strong suggestion that, for all its prosperity, Yogoan society is very corrupt. Corruption is an important theme of the series. In the first episode we learn that the Mikado believes that Chagum is a source of corruption and thus should be eliminated. We will eventually learn that the principle source of corruption is the ignorance of the Mikado himself along with his chief Star Reader. It is ignorance rather than malice, that is behind the conflict of the series. The answer for everyone is that they must broaden their view of the world, something that the very first scene illustrates literally and majestically. Now, perhaps the social commentary is less subtle than I suggested in the write-up, but I think the problems you list actually demonstrate how skilfully Kenji Kamiyama blends plot, character, themes and commentary in these scenes. |
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The Naked Beast
 Posts: 1028 Location: A Blue Planet |
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Group A/B Semifinal
Eden of the East vs. Hanasaku Iroha Both series have good things (and some bad) said about them. I would find both enjoyable. However, a vote must be cast. Eden of the East gets the advantage since I like conspiracies themed series. Additionally there are complicated turns and twists that come along with the territory. My vote goes to: Eden of the East. Group C/D Semifinal Haibane Renmei vs. Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit This is a tough one to pick. Moribito gets the edge here since it is more appealing easy to start for viewers. Haibane Renmei is a good series but takes time to dig into the heart of it. Both series have their merits but Moribito starts off at a leisurely and enjoyable pace. My vote goes to: Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit. |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Group AB
Eden of the East vs. Hanasaku Iroha Thoughts: Both shows have unflappable and enthusiastic protagonists, and a pleasant visual style. I'm going with EotE, though, because the mystery gives a bit more of a hook. Voting for: Eden of the East Group CD Haibane Renmei vs. Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit Thoughts: Both shows establish a mostly normal world with slight touches of fantasy, but while Haibane is soothing and charming, it lacks the compelling urgency of plot that draws me into a series right off the bat. Voting for: Moribito |
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One-Eye
 Posts: 2267 |
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Group A/B Semifinal
Eden of the East vs. Hanasaku Iroha In general I like Eden of the East as a series more than Hanasaku Iroha. However, as far as first episodes go it is the reverse. Eden smells pretty much like any other amnesiac adventure. I mean like no one has ever had amnesiac characters before? Questions as to amnesiac characters true nature (is he crazy, a terrorist or a good guy?) have never been used before? As a device that alone does not impress me. Visually I think Eden has a slight edge, but nothing decisive. As far as characters go, I don't see much of a connection between the two main leads aside from both of them being Japanese. Saki pretty much is just pulled along in Akira's wake. Akira aside from being an amnesiac is obviously very charming, but not much beyond that. He also decides to intervene and help out a girl that is throwing something suspicious at the White House. I don't know maybe she should be pulled into questioning by the police, ya think? Saki doesn't fair too much better when she is approached by a naked, gun wielding man. If there was ever a time in an anime for the tired cliche of a girl yelling "Eek, pervert!" and running after the police this was it. I mean he has a gun, maybe a little crazy? Oh, wait its America so guns are like shoes everyone has one. She compounds this by following him to a seedy apartment building. Some people call this naive, I think its borderline stupid. The novelty of it being set in Washington is tossed aside as we board our flight back to good old Japan. The missile attack at the end is a small hook that does help to pull you into the next episode. In Hanasaku Iroha Ohana refers to herself as a bud. She craves change and why does she crave change? Because it will spark her growth, which is something she knows she wont get from her mother when she comments that she doesn't have a good role model. This self awareness on her part is good stuff and rounds out her other traits as a responsible (takes responsibility for futon accident), hard working (does the cooking,etc.) kid. The episode makes me care about the character and her circumstances especially in regards to her carefree mother and harsh grandmother. In contrast, it takes me a while to warm up to the characters of Eden of the East. Now I don't think Hanasaku Iroha quite lives up to the promise of its first episode, but I think it is the better first episode. Voting for: Hanasaku Iroha Group C/D Semifinal Haibane Renmei vs. Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit I've seen some comments before about characters you can relate to and wonderful world building in Haibane Renmei. I don't think the world building is quite as deep as Moribito's in that first episode. Nor are the characters much beyond basic sketches except for Reki. She gives off an older, experienced vibe with her chain smoking and taking charge of Rakka's care. Rakka also doesn't have much to her because things are just happening to her. People relate to painfully sprouting wings from the back? Being born fully developed out of a cocoon? Not so much for me. I think the visual style is pleasant and has an old world run down feel to it. However, I also find it rough looking and not comparable to the sharper, perhaps more sumptuous details of Moribito. I found the world building in Haibane Renmei to really start to kick in during the second episode. In that episode we learn: not everyone has wings, there are humans in the town, they can only use old or discarded things, Haibane Renmei organization gives them notebooks that are important for daily life, they need to find work, the Toga are introduced, people and Haibane are not allowed outside the walls, etc. So, no I don't find the first episode to be deep in world building for Haibane Renmei certainly not as much as the second. Moribito on the other hand has Balsa walking down from the arid dry mountains to the more fertile lands of Yogo. So right from the get go we are getting a feel for the geography. Children sing the song of the Nahji, a nice cultural element (which also has significance in the last episodes). A passerby remarks that a warrior woman is an uncommon sight, again this tells us about the world and informa us about Balsa. People believe that looking at the royal family in the eyes can strike you blind, this tells us that the royals are seen as semi-divine. I disagree with Spastic Minnow's assertion that:
Voting for: Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit Last edited by One-Eye on Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Gewürtztraminer
 Posts: 1028 Location: Texas - Its like whole other country. |
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Group A/B Semifinal
Eden of the East vs. Hanasaku Iroha This one was tough, mainly because I had voted against each of these 3 out of 4 times. Deciding which one to advance was difficult (and it appears pointless). Looking over my votes, I did take Full Moon over Eden of the East in the first round, and looking back, I probably let the series influence how I perceived the first episode. Both of these are fine episodes, but I am not sure they belong at this level in my opinion. Hanasku Iroha has beaten some pretty fierce competition, though. I will take Eden of the East for an episode that gets rolling in an interesting manner right off the bat, and remains unslogged until the end. Vote: Eden of the East Group C/D Semifinal Haibane Renmei vs. Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit I thought Haibane Renmei was a top 16 pick at best, but it has proven to have a lot of backers. The episode is very good, abit slower than Moribito, but packing a lot of food for your growing interest. What are the Haibane? I know what the imagery they come with is supposed to represent, but that is obviously not the case here. Very intriguing. I have backed Moribito in each round, thinking it and Le Chevalier d'Eon would be in this spot. Now that would have been agonizing for me to choose. Moribito is one fine looking series, that starts its world and character building with a lot of info. This is paced when so you do not feel it is being dumped on you, and still manages to fit in some action, as well as the beginnings of a mystery in what is going on with the prince. It is a perfect example of kicking things off right. Vote for: Moribito. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18454 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 5: Semifinals is now closed.
Even with a couple of the usual suspects MIA, we still had 16 votes - and the way things turned out, the "usual suspects" getting figured in wouldn't have made a difference in the final outcome. The results: Group A/B Semifinal: Eden of the East swamped Hanasaku Iroha, 12-4. Group C/D Semifinal: Moribito eliminates Haibane Renmei, 11-5. The top side of the bracket was never close; although I have no issue with EotE winning (it was a hairline decision for me to vote the other way), I feel that the voting was more lopsided than the relative merits of each first episode should have indicated. HI finally ran into a higher-ranked opponent that it couldn't knock off, though. On the bottom side, HR did have a lead about midway through, but this time it was the opposition that rattled off a 7-0 run against it, and this time there was no furious comeback to compensate. While I'm not disappointed that Moribito won so solidly, I am quite surprised that it wasn't closer; I had expected that one to go down to the wire. So that leaves us with one final week of voting to determine the overall winner. That should follow shortly. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18454 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 6: Tournament Final is now open!
One final match for all of the marbles! In both corners we have series which have won all five of their matches handily, never settling for less than 68% of the votes. EotE may have had an easier path, but that doesn't make its performance any less impressive. Moribito, OTOH, is still the top overall performer based on both % of votes claimed and opponent strength. Is the outcome a foregone conclusion? Let's see! Tournament Final Eden of the East vs. Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit |
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marie-antoinette
Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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And so we have the promised Kenji Kamiyama finals, which I think is very interesting. Also they are both Production I.G. And with music by Kenji Kawai. And quite possibly more connections as well, especially given how many names both productions have listed in their credits.
I think I know which way I am going to vote for this one but I'm not sure 100% yet. I will probably have to re-watch both (and honestly maybe watch a bit further into Moribito to help equalize things, since I have seen all of the Eden of the East series, which makes it a bit harder to consider the first episode completely on its own). |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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This is simple for me. After watching the first episode of Seirei no Moribito I went "huh, that was a good episode". After the first episode of Eden of the East however, I thought to myself "wow, this show is going to be something special".
As you all may know by now, even though I like Seirei no Moribito's first episode I am forever baffled with how highly-regarded it has been. The series is great, no doubt about that. But the first episode by itself? Eh, hardly. It's a good solid start, but little else. Eden of the East's first episode is far better by comparison. It's not as good as the first episodes of Death Note or Code Geass; Lelouch of the Rebellion, but it is the best of these two series. My vote for the winner: Eden of the East |
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Ggultra2764
Subscriber Posts: 3966 Location: New York state. |
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Both have great-quality animation, engaging plots and likeable major characters introduced in their opening episodes. But in terms of the more memorable first episode, Eden of the East's first episode provided a more special experience for me. I'm well aware that amnesiac stories have been done enough times in various fictional titles. But it was hard for me not to be sucked into the charismatic and charming personality displayed by Akira in the show's opener, as well as the mystery surrounding just what kind of person he was with the various hints dropped regarding his possible identity. It tosses out enough elements to its plot with Akira and the mysterious clues that surround him that you are left wondering where exactly the show is going to go in later episodes to keep you hooked.
So for this final round, I pick Eden of the East to be the overall winner of this tournament. |
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