Forum - View topicBest First Episode Tournament: Post-Mortem
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Olliff
 Posts: 550 |
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Group C-9
Le Chevalier d’Eon vs. Koi Kaze Thoughts: Koi Kaze is the stronger series, but in terms of a stronger first episode, d'Eon has it beat. Koi Kaze relies solely on the hook at the end while d'Eon has better technicals, a stronger opening plot hook, and a richer environment. Voting for: Le Chavalier d'Eon Group C-10 Cross Game vs. Ga-Rei Zero Thoughts: Ga-Rei Zero has a hell of a twist at the end, but as a whole the episode is a muddled mess that's barely coherent. Cross Game has the quality and substance edge, plus its first episode has an even stronger twist than Ga-Rei Zero. Voting for: Cross Game Group C-11 Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei vs. Haibane Renmei Thoughts: SZS, both are strong but Haibane Renmei's first episode is too slow for it to be a strong first episode. Voting for: Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei Group C-12 Kurau: Phantom Memory vs. Gurren Lagann Thoughts: More than most series, the first episode of Kurau is a prologue and doesn't server as well self contained first episode. Gurren Lagann in its first episode establishes characters, setting, and a conflict, and has much richer and memorable characters that establish the mood and style for the series. Voting for: Gurren Lagann |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18454 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 2 Group D is now closed.
Sorry, guys; these results really should have been up an hour and a half ago, but I was reading something and just lost track of time. Anyway, here's the results, with 16 votes in, including two buzzer-beaters: C-9: Le Chevalier d'Eon edged Koi Kaze in a fierce duel, 9-7. C-10: Cross Game pitched a one-hitter against Ga-Rei-Zero, 15-1. C-11: Haibane Renmei eliminates Sayonara, Zetsubo-sensei, 13-3. C-12: Kurau Phantom Memory holds off Gurren Lagann, 9-7. Of these results, C-9 was always tight, with the lead changing a whopping five times - remarkable for a mere 16 votes. And honestly, I'm happy with that, because that one should have been close. In C-12, contrarily, KPM always had the lead but could never decisively outdistance GL, which hung around but could never quite get the push it needed. The other two were never even remotely close, but neither of those blow-outs is at all surprising. Group D will start as soon as I can set it up. Last edited by Key on Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18454 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 2 Group D is now open!
We’ve cleared out most of the chaff in this group – I only see one or two remaining titles that I would considered borderline choices – so now it’s time to get down to some more serious business. Group D-9 Angel Beats! vs. Read or Die (the OVA) Group D-10 Death Note vs. Gunslinger Girl Group D-11 Fruits Basket vs. Mawaru Penguindrum Group D-12 Ouran High School Host Club vs. Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit |
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Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6584 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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Group D-9
Angel Beats! vs. Read or Die (the OVA) Both these candidates rate highly on their fun factor: Read or Die with its over-the-top fluidly animanted action scenes and the impossible derring-do of the mild-mannered heroine, Yomiko; and Angel Beats! with its beatifully animated climax in the battle scene outside the concert hall. In a way Angel Beats! has an unfair advantage in that it was made ten years later and utilises all technology not readily avalable to the makers of Read or Die. I suppose they deserve credit for how good the older anime still looks (though not always). On top of that, good as Yomiko is, Yuri Nakamura is on another plane, so to speak (for both episodes  ). For all its wow factor, Angel Beats! has got some meaty concepts to chew over, unlike the disposable good fun of Read or Die.
Group D-10 Death Note vs. Gunslinger Girl Two great first episodes but both can be too cheesy for some, from what I've read here on other threads. I'm going to vote for Gunslinger Girl because, for all Death Note's undeniable hooking power, it has several things that bring it down: the depiction of the shinigami world and its inhabitants; in particular the clownish design of Ryuk (which is a shame because he's an interesting character); the narrow scope of Light's morality, and the contrived rules of the Note Book. Those items won't bother some, but they do annoy me. I'm also aware that similar arguments can be put against Gunslinger Girl but, for me, they don't spoil things at all. I suppose its because the execution is so good that the absurdities are easily ignored. Group D-11 Fruits Basket vs. Mawaru Penguindrum Mawaru Penguindrum is more interesting both in its premise and in its execution. Then again, it's not up against the strongest candidate in the group. Roll on next round, MP (if you make it). It gets much harder from here on. Group D-12 Ouran High School Host Club vs. Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit A middling funny high school comedy just can't compete against Balsa, her attitude, and the beautiful artwork and animation. Moribito: Guardian of the Spirit deserves to make it to the top four. (Why, oh why does this and Haibane Renmei have to be on the same side of the draw? If FMA gets into the final it'll be criminal.) |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18454 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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I was going to wait a while to vote on this one, but seeing errinundra's argument in D-9 crystallized me on the one match that I was stuck on.
Group D-9 Angel Beats! vs. Read or Die (the OVA) Going with Angel Beats! here, and for exactly the same reasons that errinundra stated. Group D-10 Death Note vs. Gunslinger Girl It may be cheesy and immensely melodramatic, but Death Note still has one hell of a powerful hook, and Ryuk looking vaguely like a clown didn't bother me. Contrarily, I found GG's first episode to be a turn-off because it was conceptually repugnant to me. Group D-11 Fruits Basket vs. Mawaru Penguindrum If FB had artistry and technical merits that matched Mawaru Penguindrum then I'd put these two on even footing, as I got at least as much of an emotional attachment out of FB's first ep as I did out of MP's. The vastly more appealing look of the latter makes the difference for me here. Group D-12 Ouran High School Host Club vs. Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit No contest. I'll actually be curious to see if anyone tries to justify OHSHC as the better option based on anything more concrete than personal preference, because in no artistic, storytelling, characterization, or even musical respect does it stack up against the quality of Moribito, which I agree should handily win this Group. |
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Ggultra2764
 Subscriber Posts: 3966 Location: New York state. |
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Making some tough decisions in this bracket thanks to my enjoyment of nearly all the titles remaining in this bracket.
Match D-9: Angel Beats Tough match for me to pick from here. While I'm more a fan of Read or Die and the opening episodes to both mostly get by with their stylish premises, I would also have to go by errinundra's comments here as Angel Beats' more recent making offer it a more appealing presentation to hook you in, alongside the comical banter with the group of revolutionary students and the catchy musical score playing in the school concert towards the final part of the episode. Regardless of who wins, I can't picture these two titles surviving the next round. Match D-10: Death Note Much as I enjoy both titles, the overly dramatic start of Light's descent into moral corruption from obtaining the Death Note makes for a far more accessible premise than the use of young girls molded into cyborg assassins for Gunslinger Girl. Match D-11: Mawaru Penguindrum Alongside its more appealing visual presentation, Mawaru Penguindrum packs a more stronger dramatic punch in introducing the tragic situation affecting Himari and her two older brothers. The bizarre fantastical elements that come along in the second half of the episode with the trio of penguins that accompany each sibling and the mysterious world that a possessed Himari brings her siblings also delivers a more stronger hook to keep one tempted to see more episodes of the series. Match D-12: Moribito: Guardian of the Spirits As funny as it is, Ouran Host Club is quite outclassed against the more visually impressive and epic-style storytelling delivered with Moribito in introducing Balsa's character and starting off her mission to protect Chagum. |
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Aylinn
 Posts: 1684 |
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Group D-9
Angel Beats! vs. Read or Die (the OVA) Read or Die Angel Beats! seems to be the sort of series I don't like, so RoD gets my vote. Besides, I find the idea of an ass-kicking bibliophile to be more awesome and original than the idea of girls with guns. The concept of RoD is simply more intriguing. Group D-10 Death Note vs. Gunslinger Girl Neither has impressed me that much. I'm voting for Death Note, because the first episode convinced me that at least it would be entertaining, by comparison, Gunslinger Girl's first episode didn't. Group D-11 Fruits Basket vs. Mawaru Penguindrum Mawaru Penguindrum excels at so many levels that it is clearly the best choice here. Fruits Basket has a decent beginning but FB doesn't show great promise like MP. Group D-12 Ouran High School Host Club vs. Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit appealed to me more than Ouran High School Host Club. The idea of thirty years old female bodyguard is interesting and the execution is great. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18454 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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I would point out, though, the "girls with guns" is only a minor aspect of AB, not its focus (as it is, with, say, Gunslinger Girls). |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Results.
I skipped dinner to get this ready before I have to take off for my volleyball game. Appreciate it! Our top 4 remain unchanged, but Key did move up a spot to fifth by getting all 4 winners correct. Overall, this was a pretty good round for people, due in large part to Cross Game and Haibane Renmei being so heavily favored. Kurau beating Gurren Lagann is a bit of a surprise though, as it only had 4 picks against GL's 6 (Trigun also had 6, but that's rather moot as it lost to GL last round). |
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Aylinn
Posts: 1684 |
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I see. The picture is a bit misleading but even if they are not very prominent. The idea of an ass-kicking bibliophile who saves the world appeals to me so much that I doubt Angel Beats! can beat it. |
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marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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Group D-9
Voting for: Angel Beats! I just watched the first half of this one and am not super thrilled with it, to be honest. I expected a bit more, I guess. I'll probably watch the rest later. However, I'm still voting for it because even though I agree that the concept of Read or Die is awesome, the execution did absolutely nothing for me, even less than Angel Beats! has so far. Group D-10 Voting for: Death Note This was a tough decision, especially since Gunslinger Girl is one of my favourite anime. However, Death Note's first episode was fantastic and it just had a bit more intensity and drive to it, which led to a must see the next episode feeling, whereas Gunslinger Girl is more a interested raised and would like to see more type of episode. Group D-11 Voting: Mawaru Penguindrum The decision to vote this way is surprising me, since I'm voting for the episode I personally liked less. However, I think that just as far as pure storytelling goes what I did see from Mawaru Penguindrum just took more chances and had more going on. Plus it looked better doing it. So even if the show ultimately wasn't for me, I think this episode was still stronger than Furaba's. Group D-12 Voting for: Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit I am going to get around to watching this one to confirm that this is the right way to vote but early arguments are strongly suggesting that this one should take it. I'm a bit sad to see Ouran go this early, a shame it wasn't up in D-9 or 11 but I get the impression that it is genuinely outclassed here and so it's not as bad as some other entries knocked out too fast. |
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A Mystery
 Posts: 1888 Location: Netherlands |
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I probably won't be able to vote next week. I'm going on a two-week vacation to Italy and I don't have a smartphone with me.
Group D-9 Angel Beats! vs. Read or Die (the OVA) Voting for: Angel Beats I originally picked Read or Die, because I didn't know that one and it seemed cooler to me. After seeing both first episodes I believe Angel Beats is better. Both are a lot of fun and original, but Angel Beats has an awesome musical climax. I agree that Angel Beats seems less like disposable fun, there might be some drama and philosophy in it as well (as we're dealing with dead people trying to... 'survive'). Group D-10 Death Note vs. Gunslinger Girl Voting for: Death Note I disagree with the design of Ryuk: you can call it clownish (never thought of that when I saw him), but don't you think clowns are a bit creepy? I sure do... I think Ryuk's design is awesome. Death Note made many people crave for the next episode (at least I'm guilty) and that's the best quality a first episode can have. Light was the first main character I've seen in anime that deliberately murdered people and of all things, with a notebook! Him not being the standard good guy was great to see. Also, I agree, the first episode is more accessible than Gunslinger Girl's. Group D-11 Fruits Basket vs. Mawaru Penguindrum Voting for: Mawaru Penguindrum Both episodes have their share of drama, originality and comedy. Mawaru Penguindrum's premise is maybe more intriguing, I'd say. It's hard to compare these... but if there's one aspect where Mawaru really excells, it's the visuals. The first episode has a higher pace, but that's just what your taste is. While I think FB's Tohru is a good character, I can see that she might turn people off being over the top in her humbleness and kindness. Group D-12 Ouran High School Host Club vs. Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit Voting for: Moribito - Guardian of the Spirit OHSHC is one of the funniest first episodes and it has a strong female lead, but I think Fujioka Haruhi would idolize Balsa from Moribito if she knew her  . That, and the stunning looking world of adventure, drama, some action and plot is where Moribito wins.
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Tris8
 Posts: 2114 Location: Where the rain is. |
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Group D-9
Angel Beats! vs. Read or Die (the OVA) Read or Die. This episode is completely un-subtle (Yomiko Readman loving books), but that's what I like about it. It is a shameless spy-style action episode complete with codenames, evil villains, and explosions. I really enjoyed the little touches in this episode, like the notes all through Yomiko's room telling her 'lock the door!' and 'eat the food!'. And two side characters wetting themselves from the intense action  . I also love how in the beginning the use of her powers is very subtle, such that we can't even tell what her power really is until later. Most action-superpower shows go over-the-top from the beginning, but this show doesn't go that way. Yomiko may be a bit of a ditz, but she is a good MC and you can tell she is a master of wielding paper. I'm probably a little biased, since I love to read too. It's pretty funny to see how obsessed with books she is, but I can completely relate. Definitely gets my vote here.
Group D-10 Death Note vs. Gunslinger Girl I find it strange that some are voting against Gunslinger Girl because they find the premise repugnant. Isn't the idea of a high school boy murdering people and trying to control the entire world also repellant? Of course, I don't approve of little girls being brainwashed into killing machines, but the way the show is executed makes me want to watch more, just like DN. What tips me to GG is that the first time I watched it, I felt like there was so much to explore, especially the moral ambiguity. And that opening song and sequence is one of the best I've ever heard/seen. DN's first ep is a good one, a great one, but the first time I saw it I felt like that kind of premise couldn't support itself for very long (boy was I wrong!). It didn't seem to have as much potential as it turned out to have, or nearly as many elements to explore. Death Note is famous for the moral questions it poses, but Gunslinger Girl poses some very complex ones as well, and judging from the first episode alone, I say GG did a better job. Group D-11 Fruits Basket vs. Mawaru Penguindrum Fruits Basket's first ep is funny and definitely doesn't sag, but it has always felt a little contrived to me. After finishing the series and seeing the first episode again it fits much better, but the way she discovers the Sohma secret still feels orchestrated. I know it was done for comedy, and it did make me laugh, but still. Mawaru Penguindrum feels much more ernest, and from the first ep alone gives more indication of where it'll be going. Group D-12 Ouran High School Host Club vs. Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit OHSHC really does have a good first episode. It is funny, entertaining, and very colorful and light-hearted. But even so it doesn't got nothin' on Moribito - Guardian of the Spirit. Balsa is an amazing main character. She is extremely intelligent and talented, and the mystery of the 8 souls to save is icing on the cake. When she points out the true consequences of the choice the Empress has given her, makes it clear she could escape, but then chooses to take on the task anyway, I knew this series would be something special. |
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Gewürtztraminer
 Posts: 1028 Location: Texas - Its like whole other country. |
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Group D-9
Angel Beats! vs. Read or Die (the OVA) Voting for: Angel Beats! I love the opener, it sets a perfect mood for this mixture of Music, setting, and gunplay. Nothing wrong with the Read or Die OVA, like in the previous round where I voted for ROD TV over it, watching the OVA, I feel I am constantly being beat over the head with: Hey look at all this crazy stuff, this is an OVA. It just does not fit together as well as I think it should. Group D-10 Death Note vs. Gunslinger Girl I want to vote Gunslinger Girl, but I can not find anything in it that competes with Death Note. Watching Light's descent into hell, while maintaining what he is doing good is quite powerful. One of the most instantly unlikeable main chars ever. Voting for: Death Note Group D-11 Fruits Basket vs. Mawaru Penguindrum I was gong to hold off rewatching show until the next round, but like the Excel Saga vs. Hanasaku Iroha, I will have to rewatch these to cast my vote in the second round and see if Fruits Basket deserves the shutout. Upon further review.... I really thought these would have been closer, both have touching drama, dealing with the death of a loved one, thought in Fruits Basket's case, the backstory is told while Tohru is in a fever. I still found it more touching than two brothers scuffling and screaming at each other next to a gurney with their sister's dead body covered by a sheet. Still the narration of the story, with the older brother (I think) cursing fate? Your sister was just brought back to life my miraculous means, and you sound bitter? Intriguing, but it does not add up, I will take the impossibly cheerful Tohru. Visually, Fruits Basket is almost a picture drama, nearly one of the least animated copies of a manga that I have seen. Mawaru Penquindrum is pretty slick throughout, with cost saving stick figures used in crowds coming off as a stylistic touch. It will not matter, as the winner gets Moribito the next round, but I am voting for Fruit's Basket. Group D-12 Ouran High School Host Club vs. Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit Since the first round, I have watched the rest of of Moribito. The first episode is just about perfect, the visuals, the plot set up, the action, I can find no fault here. Vote: Moribito Last edited by Gewürtztraminer on Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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One-Eye
 Posts: 2267 |
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Group D-9
Angel Beats! vs. Read or Die (the OVA) I’m glad that ROD OVA beat out the tv series as I felt that 3 paper sisters did not quite equal one Yomiko Readman. Visually it still looks good 11 years later and I remember when I first saw it how creative I thought it was. I enjoyed the cold war spy vibe, the historical antagonists, and Yomiko’s use of her paper skills. It also was not about high school or middle school kids. Its competitor Angel Beats certainly benefits visually from being a newer show. Angel maybe the emotionless girl type, but she sure is cute. It also benefits strongly in my opinion from its music. It plays its hand well with a strong OP and a fun concert number. The concert works well even if it feels a little contrived, because it just looks and sounds so good. Also the absurdity of sniping an Angel made me grin. This is the toughest choice for me in this round-up as both episodes are a lot of fun. However, I think I will go with the older and probably less popular ROD, mainly because of its main heroine. I don’t think in terms of first episodes that Yuri, Otonashi, or Angel quite match up for me in one episode with Yumiko. Watching the book obsessed Yumiko bumbling around while cutely crying, “please give me my book back” and kicking butt at the same time makes me smile every time. Her character is too endearing to me and I still get goose bumps whenever anyone calls her “The Paper” with that little extra emphasis. Voting for: ROD (OVA) Group D-10 Death Note vs. Gunslinger Girl I remember the first time that I saw Ryuk on tv. My first impression was that visually he looked like some kinda weird Joker (from Batman). I didn’t care for the clownish look, so it wasn’t a good start. However, that impression would fade somewhat in time and he would attain a certain level of creepiness. I found the premise of Death Note interesting, but not so much the first episode. I found there was little hesitation in Light’s part in taking up his scribbling of names in the book. There was little doubt or any real wrestling with the temptation that such power offered. He is not led astray by thoughts of saving the world from evil, but instead desires to reshape and bend the world to his light. I found him to be conceited and repugnant. The first episode did not really make me want to keep watching as I felt that where it might go could turn predictable since it seemed to show its hand. In contrast the first time I saw Gunslinger Girl I wasn’t sure I was going to like it. It sounded like a gimmick to me, “oh, young girls with guns” was my first thought. GG has wonderful details throughout the first episode. The arches, columns and Italian pine in the backgrounds help set the place. I found it novel that it doesn’t take place in Japan. Josei’s (Giuseppi) telling Henrietta “stop it” with a strain in his voice after finding her recocking her gun over and over again while her saying “you told me to get competent quickly”. Claes saying that they seek approval, but that kind of devotion might make people uncomfortable. The way that Josei seems to keep his distance in that first episode and how other handlers are indifferent to the girls or just see them as “tools” to be used. It’s the fate of child soldiers to be disposable, its cruel and tragic. There is still humanity in that first episode of GG, where there is none in DN. This is what hooked me, along with the wonderful details of the guns used and a very good OP and ED. Voting for: Gunslinger Girl Group D-11 Fruits Basket vs. Mawaru Penguindrum I found the first episode of Fruits Basket to feel more like an ordinary comedy and not particularly special. I also did not care for how main female lead Tohru was designed especially close-ups of her eyes. On the other hand, Mawaru Penguindrum is far more interesting in its first episode. I found the visual design to be superior, the characters more appealing, and the quirkiness more interesting from the get go. There was one or two moments that made me feel uncomfortable towards the end, but I was more interested in trying another episode than with Fruits Basket. Voting for: Mawaru Penguindrum Group D-12 Ouran High School Host Club vs. Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit Ouran High School Host Club has a decent first episode with some funny gags. However, its totally outclassed by Moribito: Guardian of the Spirit visually, musically and with the presence of Balsa the lead character. It’s a well-crafted episode that displays Balsa’s physical prowess and her intelligence, which she demonstrates to the Empress in one exchange. A good first episode and excellent series in spite of the dubs attempts to hamstring it by dropping unnecessary modern colloquialisms into it. Voting for: Moribito: Guardian of the Spirit |
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