Forum - View topicBest First Episode Tournament: Post-Mortem
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Group A-9
Eden of the East "I Picked Up A Prince" vs. Bakemonogatari "Hitagi Crab: Part 1" Thoughts: Bakemonogatari has pizazz and style, along with some rather unique and quite interesting characters. The dilemma introduced as for the first arc (a girl who has virtually no weight when she should) is unlike any other problem I've seen in anime. But, while I enjoy the way the show is presented, I'm aware that the heavy emphasis on dialogue that spends a lot of time playing around rather than addressing the conflict is a turn off for many. Eden of the East spends its time establishing the setting and the mystery of the show, while still being creative, and gives us one of the most magnetic personalities in anime to boot. Voting for: Eden of the East Group A-10 His and Her Circumstances "Her Circumstances" vs. Azumanga Daioh “Child High School Student / She's a Prodigy / Scary Maybe? / Wildcat Tomo-chan! / The Osakan Gal” Thoughts: Azumanga Daioh has kind of an inherent disadvantage in that it doesn't have much gravity. It's great light-hearted fun, and a perfect introduction to what the viewer is getting into, but His and Her Circumstances establishes stakes for the characters (or at least Yukino) and gets us to care about them, while also being interesting to look at. Voting for: Kare Kano Group A-11 FLCL "Fooly Cooly" vs. Time of Eve "Akiko: Time of Eve" Thoughts: Time of Eve is charming, and it is effective in establishing its premise in such a short episode, but that's not enough to match the creativity, comedy, and drama FLCL crams into its first episode. Voting for: FLCL Group A-12 Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion vs. Rurouni Kenshin: Trust and Betrayal OVA Thoughts: I will not ever vote for Code Geass in this tournament. Lelouche's character in the first episode is such a smarmy bastard that he alone was enough to keep me from continuing the series. Voting for: Rurouni Kenshin |
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Spastic Minnow
 Bargain HunterExempt from Grammar Rules  Posts: 4630 Location: Gainesville, FL |
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Group A-9
Eden of the East vs. Bakemonogatari Voting for: Bakemonogatari I'd be happy with either but I am going to give inventiveness, visuals and "interesting" character interaction the slight edge here. Not that I can thiunk of anything bad to say about EotE. Group A-10 His and Her Circumstances (aka Kare Kano) vs. Azumanga Daioh Voting for: His and Her Circumstances I do think Azumanga Daioh is a great first episode, but I admit that I wasn't completely sold on it when I saw the first episode, in my days of watching ADV's Anime on Demand, and it took a few weeks and a few style and storytelling tweaks for me to really love it. I was sold on Kare Kano from that first episode- and if you counted the first four episodes as a whole it'd be hard to find a better initial arc. It's actually likely that the first four episodes were originally conceived as a self contained story by Tsuda, and what a story it is. Group A-11 FLCL vs. Time of Eve Voting for: FLCL FLCL, one of the best first impressions ever, everything about it screams "this is so cool" to me. Hits all my personal buttons precisely. Group A-12 Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion vs. Rurouni Kenshin Trust and Betrayal OVA Voting for: Rurouni Kenshin Trust and Betrayal OVA My arguments from the first round against Geass and for Trust and Betrayal stand. Geass: A pompous lead, a cliched alternate world set-up and class warfare set-up. Trust and Betrayal: an immersive story from the beginning. |
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mow123
 Posts: 339 |
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Group A-9
Eden of the East "I Picked Up A Prince" vs. Bakemonogatari "Hitagi Crab: Part 1" Thoughts: Bakemonogatari certainly has style, pizazz, and shock value, but the first episode of Eden of the East is more finely crafted. It has an instantly likable lead with an intriguing past that's shrouded by mystery even from himself. Bakemonogatari tries too hard to be different that it loses out on coherency, and its strength is really only realized when audience has more to work with later in the series. Voting for: Eden of the East Group A-10 His and Her Circumstances "Her Circumstances" vs. Azumanga Daioh “Child High School Student / She's a Prodigy / Scary Maybe? / Wildcat Tomo-chan! / The Osakan Gal” Thoughts: Azumanga Daioh is a wonderful light weight laugh fest, but like Dorcas Aurelia said it lacks impact compared to something as packed and substantive as Kare Kano. The opener of Kare Kano is gripping and engaging as we explore the "circumstances" behind a girl who lives a dual life fueled by deception, pride, and the desire to be seen as perfect even if it requires great sacrifice outside of the public view. An instantly memorable setup that begs you to see more. Voting for: Kare Kano Group A-11 FLCL "Fooly Cooly" vs. Time of Eve "Akiko: Time of Eve" Thoughts: FLCL's first episode is certainly packed, but it is done to excess. The result seems forced and coherency is also lost. Time of Eve's first episode is certainly not as loud or stylistic, but it is a solid and enchanting first episode that sets up an interesting premise in its first episode in a very short amount of time. Voting for: Time of Eve Group A-12 Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion vs. Rurouni Kenshin: Trust and Betrayal OVA Thoughts: Code Geass starts fast and never looks back. It stars a character that you love to hate, but is also very engaging at the same time. Action junkies are also indulged with great mecha fighting scenes, quality animation, and detailed mecha designs. Certainly not for everyone Code Geass does start stronger while RKTB OVA needs to build up and isn't that great as a singular episode. RKTB OVA is certainly the better overall series, but I feel that the first episode on its own is not exceptional and not a strong contender since it does not stand out strongly on its own like CG does. The strength of an immersive story doesn't sink in until the later episodes. I think voters are being swayed by the quality and interconnection of the later episodes in this match since CG in that regards is largely inferior. Voting for: Code Geass |
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GDFan
 Posts: 254 Location: North of Boston |
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There's too many series that I haven't seen, and have no legal streaming options.
Bakemonogatari and Rurouni Kenshin both seem to be strong contenders, I wish I could see them(legally.) Is Bake's 1st episode really better than EotE? I wish I could judge for myself rather than vote based on what others think. |
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The Naked Beast
 Posts: 1028 Location: A Blue Planet |
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Group A-9
Eden of the East vs. Bakemonogatari I still remember most of this first episode. The unique animation stood out to me especially Hitagi's falling scene. Even the pacing and story was not like anything I have seen at that point. I was surprised how they took a different to the supernatural element as well. My vote goes to: Bakemonogatari. Group A-10 His and Her Circumstances (aka Kare Kano) vs. Azumanga Daioh My high school experience was never that random, funny, and energetic. But Azumanga Daioh has that covered unless you are spacing out like Osaka. The characters are all very likeable and interact well with each other. Yes, even Kimura, though he is just there for the creep factor. My vote goes to: Azumanga Daioh. Group A-11 FLCL vs. Time of Eve This series has a lot of depth and discussion to it but takes a lot of analysis to draw out its overall meaning and theme. I still do not know everything about the series. But what this does well is making the making the most of its limited six-episode length. Growing up sure is tough, especially when self-proclaimed aliens bash you in the face with a guitar. My vote goes to: FLCL. Group A-12 Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion vs. Rurouni Kenshin Trust and Betrayal OVA Sometimes I am surprised to see how divisive some series can be. Yes, the lead character is not exactly the most likeable. Sometimes, you just have to cast away all of your sentimentality to achieve your ultimate goal. This may seem callous but if you believe that the ends justify the means, everything else is irrelevant. After all, war is hell and you can not be soft lest you be crushed. A moment of weakness is all it takes. I, for one, enjoyed this series a lot. This first episode helps to set up the high octane ride. The key factor is Lelouch gaining his Geass. This begins the first step of his master plan. My vote goes to: Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion. |
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A Mystery
 Posts: 1888 Location: Netherlands |
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Group A-9
Eden of the East vs. Bakemonogatari Voting for: Eden of the East Bakemonogatari is not for me. The long talks are wearing me down and I don’t see the point of the fanservice. There wasn’t a character I could identify with. On the plus side are the inventive camera angles and animation, and an unusual plot. Eden of the East’s opening episode is exciting, with action, humor and a hint of romance. Saki seems like she’s a bit naive, trusting a stranger so fast, but that’s about the only negative point I can think of. The music and animation is awesome as well. Group A-10 His and Her Circumstances (aka Kare Kano) vs. Azumanga Daioh Voting for: His and Her Circumstances Both episodes are very funny. Azumanga Daioh is good in setting up the slice-of-life comedy and the characters. When it premiered, it was the first one of its kind. His and Her Circumstances does more than that: it not only has great comedy and originality (by that I mean Miyazawa’s character), the characters have more depth and the ability to reflect upon themselves. I also think that more people will be hooked if they see a first episode of His and Her Circumstances, it feels more accessible to a wider audience. Group A-11 FLCL vs. Time of Eve Voting for: Time of Eve I have to agree with Tris8: FLCL's craziness is both its strongest and weakest point, as it catches attention but is also confusing. A weird woman barging into your too mundane life (if mundane means the girlfriend of your older brother is affectionate with you) with a guitar and style is nice… though she annoyed me a bit for not respecting Naota’s privacy and not explaining anything. And Mamimi taking pictures of a friend who’s just been in an accident? I mean, being in an accident right now… seems like a weird reaction to me  . The more serious themes get some attention, but not as much as in Time of Eve. After only 15 minutes, it gets you to care about the characters and think about the differences betweens humans and intelligent androids. It has a more relaxed atmosphere, which I like. Though probably done with a purpose, the music makes me feel like I’m playing the Sims. That’s the only complaint I have after watching Time of Eve. There’s not a lot of comedy, but I think the creativity and drama are there.
Group A-12 Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion vs. Rurouni Kenshin Trust and Betrayal OVA Voting for: Rurouni Kenshin Trust and Betrayal OVA Code Geass has a very good opening episode. The main character isn’t your standard good character (though a bit too smart maybe), there’s enough suspense, intrigue and mystery to keep you watching. It’s a good shonen show. But it’s not as dark and less deep as Trust and Betrayal is. The latter has much more impact, showing Kenshin’s dark, cruel past. The OST is one of my favorites. |
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Gewürtztraminer
 Posts: 1028 Location: Texas - Its like whole other country. |
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I watched every single episode in the first rounds, but will not be able to do so here. Still this is all fresh in my mind.
Group A-9 Eden of the East vs. Bakemonogatari Voting for: Eden of the East for a an engaging 1st episode that combines adventure and action in a highly entertaining manner. Group A-10 His and Her Circumstances (aka Kare Kano) vs. Azumanga Daioh I still think Azumanga Daioh got by on nostalgia vs Monster in the previous round. What is great about Azumanga Daioh has to be slowly feed to you over 26 episodes before you realize what it was. Give me His and Her Circumstances for the the extremely solid story set up. Group A-11 FLCL vs. Time of Eve Voting for FLCL: as I said previously, I consider this the pinnacle of animated storytelling. There is not a wasted second here, dub or sub, visuals/music combine for me the most infectious story ever. Group A-12 Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion vs. Rurouni Kenshin Trust and Betrayal OVA[/quote] Voting for Trust and Betrayal. Been revisiting all of Kenshin recently, and am still floored at how that first episode completely changes my view of the franchise. |
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
 Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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I am set on all my votes in this round, so I don't have to revisit any of the episodes, but I still have to work on the explanations. Actually I am about to go watch Time of Eve as I am posting this, since I haven't seen it but am completely set on not voting for FLCL.
Group A-9 Eden of the East vs. Bakemonogatari Voting for: Bakemonogatari: I am incredibly interested in this series not just because of being a huge fan of Akio Watanabe character designs. I'm sure glad it's getting an official release and think Aniplex will give it the quality treatment it deserves. I loved the idea of such a quick character setup to get right into the action and the mystery that surrounds each of them. Eden of the East was a good first episode but just didn't grab me as profoundly as it seemed to for other people and my decision to watch the rest of the episodes was more influenced by positive word of mouth for the series as a whole. Group A-10 His and Her Circumstances (aka Kare Kano) vs. Azumanga Daioh Voting for His and Her Circumstances all the way, no contest for me. This is just a brilliant story concept that was executed beautifully with great animation and all the quirky facial closeups, and innocuous but somehow very fitting musical score by Shiroh Sagisu. Group A-11 FLCL vs. Time of Eve Voting for Time of Eve: Such an impressively unique and entertaining first 15 minutes (why are the episodes 15 minutes!??). Notice how if you go into the show just thinking it's about guessing who's an android and who's not you're basically putting yourself in the same initial mentality as both protagonists from the start? ie. you yourself are discriminating against androids. The main character seems intrigued by this "Android Holic" culture and wants to be apart of it, so it really sucks you into the story because you know as the viewer you are also better than this and it's fantasy so with that mindset you're more comfortable with the idea of a world where androids and humans are equal. All in all, an excellent 1st episode and an excellent series. Group A-12 Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion vs. Rurouni Kenshin Trust and Betrayal OVA Voting for Trust and Betrayal: Just a beautiful story is weaved into the first episode of one of the franchises most epic installations. A true classic of animation, action, drama and martial arts. Last edited by P€|\||§_|\/|ast@ on Mon May 28, 2012 9:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18454 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Group A-9
Eden of the East vs. Bakemonogatari Bake's first episode was eccentric, but Eden of the East's was excellent in every respect: great technical merits, an interesting concept, involving characters. It's easily good enough for another win. Group A-10 His and Her Circumstances (aka Kare Kano) vs. Azumanga Daioh No question for me on this one. AzuDai's first episode was entertaining, but His and Her Circumstances' first episode left an impression, making me care about the characters and the series as a whole. Group A-11 FLCL vs. Time of Eve I watched Time of Eve's first ep about an hour ago and it was good enough, and intriguing enough, that I can see why it won last round; I'll almost certainly go back and watch the rest of the series at some point. However, FLCL's first episode was something special, the kind of mix of offbeat style and frenetic energy that comes along maybe once or twice in a decade, so I have to support it instead. Group A-12 Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion vs. Rurouni Kenshin Trust and Betrayal OVA Finished watching the latter right before typing this up and - wow. If the whole series is on that level then I can see why it's long been one of ANN's top-rated series. Code Geass's first episode had one heck of a climax, but Trust and Betrayal blows it out of the water on every other merit except English dubbing. (I watched it in English and thought it was passable until Tomoe spoke at the end. Ick!) I have not seen any of the rest of the Kenshin franchise but will definitely track down the rest of this one. |
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Olliff
 Posts: 550 |
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Group A-9
Eden of the East vs. Bakemonogatari Odd, eccentric, jarring, Bakemonogatari is, but it's not enthralling and enchanting like Eden of the East in practically every area. Animation, great characters, art, great concept, and engaging writing. Also worth mentioning the chemistry between the main leads blows what Bakemonogatari has between its leads out of the water unless I suppose you are the type who is into that kind of stuff if you know what I mean. Group A-10 His and Her Circumstances (aka Kare Kano) vs. Azumanga Daioh His and Her Circumstances' first episode left an impression, making me care about the "plight" of trying to be perfect or at least being seen that way. While not exactly heart wrenching pathos, the amount of characterization captured in a single episode of Kare Kano is impressive. Group A-11 FLCL vs. Time of Eve Time of Eve's first episode is better calculated and feels more polished. Both are great episode, but perhaps it is personal preference to prefer the keenly executed over a first episode whose main weakness is its lack of focus. Unrestrained it is, but it also evokes either a strong hate or love reaction. Such a polarizing effect isn't exactly a positive in my book. The first episode is just too far off the chains for some people's taste as original and unique that is. Group A-12 Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion vs. Rurouni Kenshin Trust and Betrayal OVA Code Geass has solid first episode that shines compared to the rest of the series, but I even concede that the Trust and Betrayal OVA has the clear edge. Hate to say it, but its more of a byproduct of an overall much better put together anime first episode included on almost every front. Simply the OVA is timeless and CG is not; first episode and all. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18454 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 2 Group A is now closed.
Doubtless the holiday here in America is at least partly responsible for the anemic 13 vote turn-out (some long-time regulars, like Aylinn, didn't vote this time), but that's going to happen from time to time, so we'll forge on. I didn't get the feeling that more votes would have significantly impacted any of these matches, though: A-9: Eden of the East eliminates Bakemonogatari, 10-3. A-10: His and Her Circumstances obliterates Azumanga Daioh, 12-1. A-11: Time of Eve outlasts FLCL, 8-5. A-12: Rurouni Kenshin: Trust and Betrayal KOs Code Geass, 10-3. Only A-11 was ever even remotely close, but FLCL could simply never shrink for long the three vote edge ToE long-maintained. Next round will be up in a little while. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18454 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 2 Group B is now closed.
See here for the results. We have some potentially very interesting and hard-to-call matches this time, including some match-ups between material of utterly disparate types. (See B-11 in particular.) I’m looking forward to the arguments. Group B-9 Bunny Drop vs. Paranoia Agent Group B-10 Fullmetal Alchemist vs. Gankutsuou: The Count of Monte Cristo Group B-11 Excel Saga vs. Hanasaku Iroha Group B-12 Samurai Champloo vs. Elfen Lied Last edited by Key on Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:04 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18454 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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I've seen all of these and will be out of town most of the week, so I'll start off the voting this time:
Group B-9 Bunny Drop vs. Paranoia Agent For me the easiest pick, although the two are actually pretty close in levels of worthiness. PA has the definite edge on technical merits as it tells its dark, twisted story with a compelling premise, while BD is equally compelling but in an entirely different way and has a definite edge in sentiment. I could see this one going either way but find the degree of heart that Bunny Drop packs to be a little too hard to deny. There was a reason its series made my Best of Year list for 2011, and that reason started here. Group B-10 Fullmetal Alchemist vs. Gankutsuou: The Count of Monte Cristo This the first of two devilishly difficult picks for me, as the first episodes of both series made powerful first impressions which guaranteed that you were going to be watching something exciting. For the moment I'm giving Gankutsuou the edge because of the stunning visual impression it makes, which FMA's impressively flashy use of alchemy can't even begin to match, but I'm not 100% certain that this vote holds. Group B-11 Excel Saga vs. Hanasaku Iroha Another devilishly hard pick, but this one I have no doubt about. Excel Saga has possibly the single best first episode ever for an anime comedy series; it's hard to deny an episode where a character stalks and tries to kill her manga's creator, or where the angel of her better nature gets arrested for shooting her counterpart, after all. Hanasaku Iroha is one of the best starting episodes for slice-of-life series, though, and it has a big edge in technical merits. The latter, and the fact HI starts to build the year's most intriguing character in Ohana, is the tiebreaker for me. Group B-12 Samurai Champloo vs. Elfen Lied No doubt on this one. Samurai Champloo may have a sharp first episode, but it still can't compete with the jaw-dropping front end of Elfen Lied. Its much weaker back end will eventually be its downfall, but I don't think that it will - or should - happen here. |
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Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6584 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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Group B-9
Bunny Drop vs. Paranoia Agent First of the tough match-ups. Paranoia Agent is a good first episode that sets up an uneasy and ambiguous tone beginning with the superb opening montage of people hypocritically complaining on their mobile phones. Problem is, this episode isn’t smack-me-in-the-face brilliant. The characters of the girl and the reporter aren’t at all that appealing (not that they’re meant to be) while the two police officers need more time to warm to. On top of that the opening tale isn’t particularly outstanding. It took until the episodes of the split personality woman and the runaway girl for the series to ascend to the levels of greatness – and we’re not voting for those episodes. Bunny Drop - I can’t get used to the American title  - reaches those levels from the first episode. Rin’s ghastly situation, exacerbated by her extended family’s unfeeling attitude towards her, is countered by the incipient connection between her and the unlikely Daikichi. It’s wonderful stuff.
Group B-10 Fullmetal Alchemist vs. Gankutsuou: The Count of Monte Cristo This is the easy one for me. I actually think the first episode (along with its companion second episode) of Fullmetal Alchemist is dreadful. There is no background as to why the boys have the bodies they have; there is no indication of the tragedy of their situation; the character designs of Condello, Gluttony and Envy are ridiculous while their personalities are a joke; paradoxically there is no hint of how fascinating Lust will become; Rose is so forgettable that I, well, forgot about her and had no idea who she was when she re-appeared many episodes later; the plot’s theme of psuedo-religious skulduggery is juvenile; and no indication is given as to what the significance of the homunculi is. The best thing about the series is the relationship between the brothers and the various motivations of a huge and (mostly) memorable cast of characters. Neither is much in display in this episode. It really is a shame that FMA didn’t begin with the third episode. Gankutsuou’s amazing visuals along with the charismatic but disturbing character of the Count make it a clear winner for me. Group B-11 Excel Saga vs. Hanasaku Iroha Another tough one. I’m going for Hanasaku Iroha because I nominated it. No, that’s not a very good reason, is it? Seriously, the Wow! moment towards the end of the first episode completely overshadows even the best parts of Excel Saga and brings into relief what a marvellous creation Ohana is. Group B-12 Samurai Champloo vs. Elfen Lied For all the fluid action and shenanigans of the first episode of Samurai Champloo I could never put out of my mind the artificiality of the premise. The trick pulled off in Cowboy Bebop just doesn't happen for me in its spiritual successor. While Elfen Lied is every bit as contrived, the impact is so strong that I easily forget its outlandishness. Nine minutes of Elfen Lied has far more power than the entire 24 minutes of Samurai Champloo. Last edited by Errinundra on Tue May 29, 2012 9:30 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Errinundra
Moderator
Posts: 6584 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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Key,
the links in B11 & B12 just go to you web home page. |
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