Forum - View topicBest First Episode Tournament: Post-Mortem
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18454 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 1 Group B (Part 2) is now closed.
Results can be seen here. So I did a silly thing and left all of the Guide entries for this week at work. Unless I can find a way to post them from there, it’ll be about 16 hours before they will properly go active. Group B-5 Excel Saga vs. Basilisk Group B-6 Aria: The Animation vs. Hanasaku Iroha Group B-7 Samurai Champloo vs. High School of the Dead Group B-8 Elfen Lied Deadman Wonderland Last edited by Key on Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:27 pm; edited 5 times in total |
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
 Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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Is there something you're trying to tell us about Elfen Lied, Key?
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Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6584 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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Also, all the links go to the home page of your website, Key.
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18454 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Probably that I missed copying the last line from the Word file where I typed it up. It's corrected now.
Which is explained if you read the note on the round-starting post. |
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Errinundra
Moderator
Posts: 6584 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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I'm a goose. 
Sorry. The (mostly) female half of the draw Group B-5 Excel Saga vs. Basilisk Viewing history: I have Excel Saga on DVD; first exposure to Basilisk other than the clips used in the Best Rivals tournament. Is the first episode good enough to entice me to watch the rest of the series: Yes, for Excel Saga; the first episode of Basilisk has convinced me NOT to bother with the series. After its success in the Best Rivals tournament (runners up to Light Yagami and L) and the generally positive commentary by members of the forum, I approached the first episode of Basilisk with anticipation. I went away disillusioned: it’s now off my “to watch” list. It pressed all the wrong buttons. I long ago stopped rolling my eyes at things like spider creeping hunchbacks with superglue spit or razor wire made from women’s hair soaked in a secret animal oil formula. Now I just sigh. I think the show is meant to be serious. Unlike Excel Saga, which is meant to be stupid funny. And succeeds. Add to that a tour-de-force performance from my favourite seiyuu, Kotono Mitsuishi (I hear that Jessica Calvello isn’t too bad either – I’ve never gotten around to watching it with the American dub) and, for me, it’s an easy choice. Voting for: Excel Saga Group B-6 Aria: The Animation vs. Hanasaku Iroha Viewing history: I have the entire Aria franchise on DVD; watched all of Hanasaku Iroha on Crunchyroll. Is the first episode good enough to entice me to watch the rest of the series: Yes for Hanasaku Iroha; it took a few more episodes to get into Aria. As much as I love Aria and even though its first episode is quite representative of the franchise, the very qualities that make Aria so outstanding count against it here. Its charm is its cumulative effect. Like the way some people don’t create a huge impact when you first meet them, but, over time, become great friends, that’s Aria. In contrast, Hanasaku Iroha’s first episode is memorable. The artwork is also superior (though Aria’s is still good) and the storytelling isn’t so leisurely. Actually, the sedate pace of Aria is one of its charms, but for me, even though I was forewarned, it was something of a shock on first acquaintance, (especially given that I had just completed Baccano!) Voting for: Hanasaku Iroha The Charnel House half of the draw Between them the first episodes of Samurai Champloo, Elfen Lied and Deadman Wonderland must have a death count approaching one hundred. High School of the Dead must have at least that number on its own. Watching all four episodes in a row was a bit grim. Group B-7 Samurai Champloo vs. High School of the Dead Viewing history: Hired Samurai Champloo from my local video store some time back; watched all of High School of the Dead via the Madman Screening Room. Is the first episode good enough to entice me to watch the rest of the series: Yes. This is a hard choice. Although neither series is a particular favourite of mine, there is no denying the high impact of both opening episodes, especially HsotD. Indeed, of the two I looked forward to re-watching the nicely animated zombie slaughter with somewhat more enthusiasm. It’s held back by its unappealing fan-service but this is countered by the OP of Samurai Champloo – easily the most boring I’ve ever seen, visually and aurally. Voting for: High School of the Dead Group B-8 Elfen Lied vs. Deadman Wonderland Viewing history: I have Elfen Lied on DVD; first exposure to Deadman Wonderland. Is the first episode good enough to entice me to watch the rest of the series: Yes for Elfen Lied; no for Deadman Wonderland. At the very beginning Elfen Lied has the most memorable single image I know in anime: 
I remember the first time I ever saw it I promptly stopped the DVD right there and then and played it again. And again. I was mesmerised in less than two seconds. And then… It’s followed by what I think is the most gorgeous OP I have ever seen, anime or not. 
The sequence its simple but effective: the camera pans or zooms on 14 Gustav Klimt style images of the main characters set to a lilting hymn sung in Latin and Greek. (Later in the series the melody becomes a major plot device.) In all of it, there is only one brief animated sequence. And then… It’s followed by perhaps the most talked about opening sequence in anime – seven and a half minutes of flying body parts, rivers of blood, and the measured, brutal actions of a masked, naked woman humming the OP theme. And then… Well… it doesn’t quite fall in a hole, but the rest of the first episode is decidedly mundane after those magnificent sequences. It doesn’t really matter against Deadman Wonderland but may count against it with stronger competition. Deadman Wonderland lays the groundwork for some intriguing mysteries but the whole episode is so rushed – the schoolroom slaughter, the court case, the Deadman Wonderland prison facility with its psychotic manager – that it never makes a convincing case that I should suspend belief or invest more time in it. One more comment about Deadman Wonderland. I think Romi Park has the sexiest voice among female seiyuu. I always find it off-putting when she voices a male character, as she does here with the lead, Ganta. Voting for: Elfen Lied Last edited by Errinundra on Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:46 pm; edited 7 times in total |
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Ggultra2764
 Subscriber Posts: 3966 Location: New York state. |
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Match B-5: Excel Saga
Basilisk's first episode starts out introducing how the elder leaders of the Kouga and Iga had their romance before hostilities between their clans start up, as well as showing the hostilities between both clans in the present. While this is supposed to symbolize the tragic developments later to come with the show, I was left with the impression upon seeing this episode for the first time that the first episode was covering more about the elder leaders than the clans themselves and I didn't feel the true gist of the feud's hostilities until the following episode. Excel Saga, meanwhile, starts off at full steam to depict its manic comedy by completely destroying the fourth wall as Excel keeps getting killed and brought back to life and trying to go after her title's creator, which made for some great laugh-out loud moments for me throughout the first episode thus I have to support Excel Saga. Match B-6: Aria the Animation A bit of a tricky one to judge here as both are quality titles for differing reasons and well known for their heaping load of scenery porn. Having seen both titles though, I felt that Hanasaku Iroha's first episode was misleading going into later episodes as I thought the series was going to be a serious coming-of-age drama with Ohana adjusting to life at the hot spring resort she is dumped into by her mother until the third episode reveals the more ridiculous comedic elements that the show would usually dive into and is more a mix of slice-of-life comedy, romance and coming-of-age drama, the first element which I didn't see within neither of the show's first two episodes and felt a bit inconsistent with mood. Don't get me wrong, the series was still good despite the surprising addition of this element. But the comedy element was never alluded to in Hanasaku Iroha's first episode and it is one of my nitpicks with the show. On the other hand, Aria's first episode is still consistent in retaining the relaxing and everyday developments faced by Hikari and the other gondoliers introducing Hikari's character and covering how she comes to create her letters addressed to her penpal Ai, an element that is prominent throughout the later episodes of the franchise which include The Natural and The Origination. Match B-7: Samurai Champloo Both of these are pretty weak opening episodes for me since they rely more on style than substance to hook in viewers. High School of the Dead immediately turned me off due to how rushed it tossed the students into surviving against the zombies and the gratuitous fan service shots took away from any suspense I wanted to feel from the zombie slaughter. Samurai Champloo is a bit more better paced in setting up how Mugen, Jin and Fuu meet one another and start their journey despite its main reliance on style to show off its anachronistic mix of hip-hop and Edo period setting. Regardless of who wins, I don't think these two titles will be surviving the next round. Match B-8: Elfen Lied Like the two titles in B-7, Deadman Wonderland's opening episode is quite weak thanks to its reliance on style over substance as it rushes through its plot in the first episode just to land Ganta into the prison and see how over-the-top conditions are for the convicts in it. Elfen Lied's opening episode starts off rather shockingly with Lucy's gory escape from the institution, but does offer up substance to its plot after the escape when Yuka and Kouta are introduced and hints are dropped that the latter has repressed psychological trauma of sorts that may be connected to Lucy/ Nyuu. This element and the soldiers being sent to hunt down Lucy have enough of a hook in the plot to make me want to see more of the show thus I'll be voting for Elfen Lied here. Last edited by Ggultra2764 on Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:00 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18454 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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As I said with errinundra's comment on the matter, someone needs to actually pay attention to the comment above the voting brackets for this round; I'll admit that sometimes I post total drivel there, but I do actually put important comments there, too.
To be clear for others not familiar with the series, the image being referred to is from the very beginning of the OP. I'll agree, though, that it's one of the most memorable of all still-framed anime visuals; the degree of potential meaning packed into that one simple but beautifully-detailed shot is astounding. And if I'm pressed for time when I get around to voting, I may just use "see errinundra's votes" for my reasoning, since your evaluations almost perfectly mirror mine. 
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infiltration.cru
 Posts: 321 |
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Group B-5
Excel Saga vs. Basilisk I have never watched Excel Saga until now, but I have to say that the first episode definitely made me want to close that gap. It doesn't just introduce protagonist and premise but also goes on to catch you off guard by simply switching scenarios in the middle of the episode, which caught me completely off guard. All the stupid meta-jokes spoiler[about Excel killing the original creator of the series or the Will of the Macrocosmos' remarks after Excel's first death] are right down my alley and clearly establish what this series will probably be: a whacky and lunatic comedy that leaves your brain numbed. And although I really like Basilisk, I have to say that its first episode doesn't do too well in comparison. Although it does clearly establish the setting and premise and introduce some of the characters it may be just a little too overladen. While watching this in a marathon it might be no problem(surely was none for me) but for a first episode it seems just too much. Also, the character designs might throw some viewers off. Voting for: Excel Saga. Group B-6 Aria: The Animation vs. Hanasaku Iroha This was pretty easy for me: Hanasaku Iroha. I've already watched the series and this was also solely because of the first episode. The things I read about it didn't really interest me but after some positive reviews in the Preview Guide I decided to give the first episode a shot and it instantly took me. Ohana is presented as an already round character with internal conflicts and is thrown into an unexpected situation and reacts unlike most other heroines in a similar situation: by trying to cope with the situation and the seemingly hostile new environment. Aria in comparison only presented some characters and a setting. Although I quite liked the quiet tone it stroke it did nothing for me to come back. Granted, in general it might be completely OK for a first episode to do nothing more but since I have to compare it with another episode it simply loses. Voting for: Hanasaku Iroha. Group B-7 Samurai Champloo vs. High School of the Dead This was a tough one. As a whole, Samurai Champloo is definitely my favorite over H.O.T.D but looking at only the first episode, the difference in quality isn't that great. In both instances the protagonists are introduced excellently with their quirks and unique features(Samurai Champloo) or their internal problems and flaws that collide head first with an unbelievable situation(H.O.T.D.). Both episodes give us good looking action sequences and are not afraid to be violent. While the serious tone of HOTD suits its premise of teenagers being thrown into a traumatizing situation, the comedic undertone of Samurai Champloo applies perfectly as well to the series' characters. Moving on to soundtrack, both shows continue to shine. Wether it is the awesome old school hip hop setting a mellow mood for Samurai Champloo, HOTD does what is probably the best thing one can do in a series about the undead: taking one of the most awesome, atmospheric pieces of movie score from one of the best zombie films there is and vary it. So, how to decide? Well there was and is one tiny thing about HOTD that bothered me. It's the fact that they, in some instances, use nonsensical camera angles to get panty shots or close ups of huge breasts which just seems stupid. The action and mood of the setting alone are more than good enough to make up for any lack of cleavage or "pantsu" that the common otaku might need...meh. Voting for: Samurai Champloo. Group B-8 Elfen Lied Deadman Wonderland This one was quite easy. I can basically agree on what errinundra wrote about Deadman Wonderland. It feels rushed and although I will probably watch the rest to see where it is going, I am sceptical. Because they should better deliver a damn good explanation for why someone would go through the trouble of screwing over a high school student. I love Elfen Lied. I also really love the first episode, so it is a bit difficult to phrase it objectively but I'll try. First off, the opening (and reocurring) theme is amazingly fascinating, especially accompanied by the graphic violence. It reminds me of Kubrick's Shining, but the other way round: here it's not a car drive through an idyllic landscaped contrasted by a dark and foreboding piece of music but instead a somewhat angelic piece playing to an incredibly dark and unsettling scene. Also, the episode ends with a nice cliffhanger so one basically needs to continue immediately. Voting for: Elfen Lied. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18454 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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All of the Guide entries are now up except for Basilisk's (which is a bit buggy, and it'll be a few hours before I have time to fix it).
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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PA was the preferred choice in the mini-game, too, 13-5. The surprise for the mini-game this round was Gankutsuou over Haruhi, while the mini-game favored Haruhi 11-7. Mini-game results. Ggultra is holding on to his lead for now, but it's still quite early, and half the pack are 4 or fewer points behind. By the way, Key, you intend return to the normal end time for this round after Monday, right? Just requesting clarification so I don't accidentally miss. Last edited by Dorcas_Aurelia on Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Spastic Minnow
 Bargain HunterExempt from Grammar Rules  Posts: 4630 Location: Gainesville, FL |
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Of course, people should remember to not quote and reuse
P.S. The Aria pic apparently needs to be fixed or replaced, it has a "no hotlinking" jpg up right now- from ANN apparently. and Deadman Wonderlan is now streaming on Hulu (only recently added), so you can include this link. Hulu (sub) Last edited by Spastic Minnow on Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Errinundra
Moderator
Posts: 6584 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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Mine's now fixed. Thanks, SpasticMinnow. |
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marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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Fair warning, this is not explained, most likely due to the fact that the anime does not cover the entirety of the manga's material. And I'm not sure I can recommend the rest of the show, even though the first episode is my own nomination, since as many said it ultimately fell apart. |
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Gewürtztraminer
 Posts: 1028 Location: Texas - Its like whole other country. |
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Group B-5
Excel Saga vs. Basilisk Viewing history: Excel Saga was one of the first 5 series I bought, watched once so far. I Tivo'd Basilisk off IFC, burned to DVD and have seen once as well, I will be revisiting both for the first time in years. I thought this was going to be a tough call for me. I really did not like Excel Saga 7 years ago. I didn't hate it, but I guess since it was so early in my fandom, I just did not get it. Basilisk does a good job of setting up the Romeo & Juliet story, except featuring families with crazy ninja powers. A lot of info is crammed into the first episode, but it does not suffer from it. However, Excel Saga is a relentless assault of comedy, most of which I now found a lot funnier. I guess I get it now. The troubles getting the series started (because of Excel's deaths) was really fun to watch. The opener and closer are good enough not to skip. Voting for Excel Saga. Group B-6 Aria: The Animation vs. Hanasaku Iroha Viewing history: I own and adore all of Aria. First time on Hanasaku Iroha. I will admit I am terribly biased. It was all I could do to not start marathoning all of Aria after the first disc hit the computer. Such a beautiful/understated/gentle introduction to what I consider top 5 anime gold. I watch all of Aria at least 2 times a year. Hanasaku Iroha is good, but I felt my payoff for the first episode might be miles away. Upon further review: It really is amazing how similar these two episodes were, whereas Aria is all bright sunshine, Hanasaku Iroha tilts the other direction. Both leads are very similar, though the thought of Alicia striking Akari would send me into shock. Different styles. To someone other than me, this would be a tough call and I could not argue a vote for Hanasku Iroha, but for me, Aria delivers more. Got to Vote for: Aria Group B-7 Samurai Champloo vs. High School of the Dead Viewing history: Own and have seen both 1st episodes once before. I made it to episode 2 of HSOTD before I made a buy decision and it went into my backlog pile. Both episodes do a great job in setting up the story in the first episode. In my opinion HSOTD could have done without the weirdly inappropriate fan service. Still overall I enjoyed both. In voting for Samurai Champloo I hope it goes deeper in the tourney, I thought the setup and story delivery were a lot better than I remember my last time watching this first episode. It was like a checklist of coolness being displayed on the screen. HSOTD was very similar, but I hold the character designs and weird shots against it. Group B-8 Elfen Lied Deadman Wonderland Viewing history: Elfen Lied is up there With Excel Saga, probably one of my first 10 series, owned watched once, never revisited. It will be my first time on Deadman Wonderland. My first time revisting Elfen Lied after 6 years, I was still blown away by the level of carnage in the first half. I thought after 6 years the bar would have been raised, but that opening 10 minutes still astounded me, and then.... thud. What happened? Implausibility on implausibility are piled up in some kind of weird adult with the mind of a child moe who wets herself.... ugh. Lets take her in, not call the police.... what a letdown to such a great start. Deadman wonderland on the other hand sets up an interesting story but is guilty like Daphne in the Brilliant Blue about piling the misfortune on the main character. Unlike Daphne, this does not appear to be a comedy, and my interest waned. There were signs that the main char was maybe not as innocent as he appeared, but this is totally not my style, but I thought it was executed well. I do not see either of these advancing past this round, so give me Deadman Wonderland for at least a full episode of entertainment. Vote: Deadman Wonderland. Last edited by Gewürtztraminer on Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:17 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18454 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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The only one of these that I haven't seen I can't possibly imagine beating the one it's up against, so I guess I won't wait any longer to vote.
Group B-5 Excel Saga vs. Basilisk Basilisk is a neat series, but Excel Saga's first episode was (and still is!) the standard-setter for madcap comedy. I remember first seeing that episode in a packed convention hall, and the whole audience was rolling over the insanity. Great opener, astonishingly funny closer (you have to watch the credits carefully, too), and densely-packed laughs and absurdity in between; hard to beat. (The scene where spoiler[the good angel of Excel's nature guns down the bad angel and then later gets arrested for it] is still, in my mind, one of the all-time-great anime gags.) It's even better if you can watch it on DVD with the ADVNotes feature on so that you can catch all of the obscure references. Group B-6 Aria: The Animation vs. Hanasaku Iroha Have not seen Aria, but I gave the first ep of Hanasaku Iroha a maximum rating in my Spring 2011 Preview Guide write-up (fourth from the bottom), and I still stand by every word of that. Nothing in Aria's write-up convinced me that it can compete here. Group B-7 Samurai Champloo vs. High School of the Dead Both series have impressive, attention-catching first episodes filled with plenty of quality action, but I ultimately found HSOTD's to be the more memorable of the two. Group B-8 Elfen Lied Deadman Wonderland As others have said, Elfen Lied does sag after its opening burst, but that first 7.5 minutes is the most stunning and dynamic display of graphic violence (and nudity) that you'll ever see opening an anime title; I've often said that this is the rare series where you'll know within the first few seconds of the first episode whether or not you'll like the series. Certainly no other series makes a stronger or more immediate first impression, and the fact that this episode can do that should earn it a couple of wins. (I agree, though, that the episode's weaker back end will hurt its chances in the later stages.) Deadman Wonderland tries, and the destroy-the-classroom scene early on rivals EL for gore factor, but even that pales by comparison. Besides, despite how good-looking the episode is, I always found the execution of the concept in DL's first episode - i.e. Ganta getting railroaded onto Death Row - to be repugnant. |
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