Forum - View topicAnime Companies Gouge Customers
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Colonel Wolfe
 Posts: 370 |
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What is the flippin' problem with anime companies these days? If you're wondering what I'm talking about it's the problem regarding the number of episodes per DVD. This has been a common problem for such a long time among fans and the industry's fight to keep the price on anime DVD's priced so high.
First, while I understand the willingness for companies to keep profits up I'm more than a bit upset when I see some anime titles containing five episodes per DVD while other's can contain four episodes per disk. These companies, and they involve such companies as Geneon Animation, ADV Vision, Bandai Entertainment and FUNimation, the biggest distributers of anime out there. Why is it they want to keep the prices of DVD's up there at $30 per DVD and continue gouging customers and anime fans for every dollar in their pocket. There would be more fans purchasing more anime and trying out new titles if the prices weren't so steep. To give an example, I purchased a copy of Hanaukyo: Maid Team Volume 1, which was somewhat high for me to purchase at $24.95 at Best Buy but when Volume 2 was released at $29.99 from Best Buy, that prompted me to pass on buying further volumes. Finally, while it's understandable that these companies need to keep their profits up, isn't it also in their best interests toi bring in more anime fans because such a large variety of us are always looking for a place where to find it cheaper. This forces many of us to either download the anime (which is something that a very small minority of us don't partake in) or purchase the 3-Disk China/Hong Kong/Shang-Hi editions that come package as a complete series for $20. When are these companies going to get some common sense and start listening to what the fans are saying? I'd definately pay $100 extra per month checking out new titles but these companies are doing nothing but hurting themselves because most anime fans can't afford the prices on these anime DVD's when the industry keeps the prices so blasted high. The average price of an anime DVD is approximately $5-10 higher than your standard movie DVD. Just take a look at Ai Yori Aoshi, which boasted five episodes per DVD while other series such as Tokyo Underground have garned four episodes per DVD. I'm sure these companies could include more episodes per DVD, they just choose not to. |
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Steventheeunuch
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You just have terrible taste
spoiler[ It's expensive, it's horrible, we get it already] Also doing standard "JAPAN HAS ONLY TWO EPISODES PER DISC SO APPRECIATE IT". Already interviening with "BUT JAPAN CAN WATCH IT ON TV FOR FREE", and then coming in with "BUT THEY PAY CABLE FEES AND CRAP", and then it just kinda stops. edit- wait, then it goes "WELL WHY CANT THERE BE QUICKER SUBSCRIPTION/LINEAR THINGS!?" and someone else will say "BECAUSE THAT TAKES TIME AND MONEY" and the next person will say "WELL THIS WAIT IS BULLSHIT, IT'S EXTORTION" and then goes and downloads fansubs. guy who disagrees kinda agrees, both of them settle down or the thread gets locked or some jazz. PROCEED TO TALK ABOUT- oh |
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Colonel Wolfe
Posts: 370 |
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That may be but this is the United States, not JAPAN. The success of the home anime DVD market depends on the anime fans. While I see where you're going with your comments, these companies continue to gouge fans when it's obvious they could put more episodes per DVD. At least keeping the series contained to 6 of 7 DVD's instead oif the current 8.
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18458 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Two words: licensing fees.
From what I've been told, the cost of the licensing fees has a lot to do with determining how many episodes come out on each DVD. More expensive titles are likely to come out on 3 episodes per volume, while less expensive titles are likely to come out at 4 or even 5 episodes per volume. What a lot of fans don't appreciate is that, while anime's popularity has exploded over the past few years, it's still a niche market overall. Only something like 1-2% of all DVD sales last year in the States were anime. While a typical major movie release might expect to sell a couple of million copies, only one anime title (Inuyasha) has cracked that 1,000,000 mark in total sales - and that's spread over, what, 28 volumes for one of the most popular title in the States. Sales of 10,000 or less for a single title are more typical, I believe. Let's also remember, too, that anime DVD releases have costs - like translating, dubbing, and subtitling - which purely domestic titles don't have. What this all means is that domestic anime companies, unlike those producing domestic TV series or movies, have higher costs per volume and can't rely on mass sales to make up for a minimal profit margin. That's why anime DVD prices are higher than domestic prices and always will be. Licensing fees account for most of the rest, not price gouging. Is it annoying to have to spend almost $30 for a 3-episode volume? (Although often you can find them at discounted prices.) Yeah, I've been in that situation myself as much as anyone. Resorting to bootlegs or fansubs of licensed titles is only going to make things worse, however. It's an unfortunate but true fact that anime isn't a cheap hobby (if you want to do it honestly, that is). That's why developing anime clubs, where people can share titles, is a Good Thing. A lot of video stores also carry at least some anime titles now; that's another potentially cheaper option. |
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ANN_Bamboo
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3904 Location: CO |
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If they could afford to release things with a higher episode count, maybe they would. But as Key said, with licensing fees, and the fact that the anime market is continually losing money through people who keep fansubs rather than buy the product, they can't afford to slash prices any lower. The number of buyers they would gain by putting more episodes on a disc and marking it up wouldn't make up for the money they lost in doing that. Especially since companies are releasing so many niche titles nowadays. |
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Colonel Wolfe
Posts: 370 |
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While that may be true, these companies are looking to recoup their liscensing fees as quick as possible by the amount of episodes per disk. Here in the United States, anime has built up a following after a period of time.
When manga first burst onto the scene, it started with Eclipse Publishing under their Eclipse International line, it took some time for manga to hit it hard with fans. Nearly ten years before there was a large followiung. Back then, the summer of 1986, it was only collected a small number of core fans. I count myself among those lucky few. The same is true for anime. For a new anime series, it rises or falls depending on the price of the said DVD. I've seen anime titles, with the same content get priced around $19.99 whereas another DVD with the same content sells for $29.99 where the previous volume sold for $24.95. It's these anime distributors that set the suggested retail price at that $29.99 mark while they may sell that single DVD to a distributor for 1/3 of that price. If they don't wise up, they risk those same fans downloading this material online somewhere for free. As much as I hate to say this, I've even considered doing this because the prices of anime DVD's are starting to get too much for myself to justify walking into a store to purchase anime. Take a look at FUNimation. Their titles have an average sale price of anywhere from 16.96 to 19.99. Just walk into a Best Buy store and check them out for yourself. Now, this kind of price is affordable, even with 3 episodes per disk. What I find exorbitant is the $24.99-29.99 price tag on many DVD's. These anime distributors are fueling the downloading of their very own subtitled and dubbed anime by fans all across the world because of this pricing problem and they are losing fans because of this. |
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Pepperidge
 Posts: 1106 Location: British Columbia, Canada |
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Well, in France lots of titles seem to be released in four episode digi-packs. Of course, I think they get a lot more anime on various cable stations as well.
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kusanagi-sama
 Posts: 1723 Location: Wichita Falls, TX |
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FYI: ADV's released Gantz in the 2 episode per DVD count as a response to customer complaints to per DVD prices. They said that this was an experiment on a fairly visible title (read popular) and that it was a success. ADV has said that volume 1 has been doing very well.
http://www.animeondvd.com/conitem.php?item=198
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Slayer
 Posts: 273 |
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Gantz might be selling well but thats because its only like 6 or so episodes long right? I wouldnt pay 15 bucks for 2 episodes per disk if the anime is 26 episodes long. Anways prices can get steep so you have to shop smart. Look on ebay for legit deals and you can get anime pretty cheap. Also some websites sell anime decently cheap. Still maybe if for some reason there is an increase in the amount of people buying anime the prices will drop slightly
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Kazuki-san
 Posts: 2251 Location: Houston, TX |
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First off, do you think that the people that set the prices just go "I think we should sell this for $30?" Of course not. They have marketing reports and the like which tell them which price point will get them the most profit vs. the most sales. When speaking of a niche market like anime, lower price does not equal more sales. You have a small portion of DVD buyers that buy anime. Lowering prices will not attract those that do not buy anime to do so. So, they are already starting off with a small group that might purchase a title. Out of this group, these people have access to a greater number of titles then ever before. Most do at least some research before they decide what to buy. Because of this, lowering prices will not induce enough extra sales to make up for the lower profit. Then we have quality. Generally, the better quality a title is, the better it will sell, which can lead to lower prices. But for anime, this must be balanced with the high costs paid to get such series. A lower quality title will not sell as well. The lower quality series are usually picked up by a niche within the niche, and they are normally willing to spend more money to get them, which sometimes must be charged to make up for the sales which will not come by lowering prices. Overall, prices for anime DVDs are right on par with Hollywood movies. Higher priced titles at retailers such as Best Buy are a rariety, even among lower quality titles. While MSRPs may be high, there is almost never a cirumstance where they must be paid. With your Hanaukyo example, internet ordering would have cost you $22.28 with free shipping. Let's not forget. The STORES also set their prices based on how well something sells.
Everything I have said also applies to the episode count. They know that people would generally rather pay around $20 for an average of 4 eps per DVD, then to pay $25-30 for 6 or 7 and fewer DVDs. It's a perception thing. Most people tend to equate spending less at one particular time with spending less overall. If you want to argue that they are making too much profit, then that's fine. But you would have to show some numbers. I'm sure they could sell titles a bit cheaper then they currently do, but then they wouldn't be in a position to license the next big series that comes out of Japan, that millions of dollars are wanted for the license.
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Slipstream
Posts: 44 |
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This is something that has bothered me since the whole thing started gaining steam in the early nineties. I think we can all agree its better now than it was. But I still think its somewhat of a joke. Back in the early days, to purschase an Anime title in the west (DVD, lets say, the costs was in the high $40s. Since only speciality places would carry them, they woul totally hose you. Those same DVDs can be purchased now for half the price (I know, that's because I am buying them now). (Please note these prices are in Canadian but with the relative price of cdn-us, I won't bother tryng to convert)
There are arguments as to why Anime is still very expensive. Most TV seasons that come entirely in one big box set for a cheap price (24, Buffy, Simpsons) already made money for the Network when aired...plus they also made a boatload of these titles, so they can be sold individually for cheaper. However, Anime is not made by the dubbing company (at least not usually), so they don't have those costs to deal with. I still don't belive Anime on DVD needs to be this much. Right now, I am collecting SAC and at $19 a disc, the price is more reasonable. But I will never purchase Last Exile on DVD as it cost almost $40 a disc for the same number of episodes. Personally, I also have a problem with their response thime from when it premiers in Japan and when we receive a translated version. Yes, I know it takes a while to secure rights, translate and dub, and then make the discs, but Manga's release of SAC simply is taking too long. |
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Ohoni
Posts: 3421 |
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Regardless of how it's divied up, SOMEBODY is gouging SOMEBODY, and in the end the fans cover the cost. If the stores don't make the huge profit then it's the US distrbutors that do, if they don't make the huge profit then it's the Japanese licesnsees that do, etc., but somebody is pocketing a ton of money off of this, and whoever THAT is should put that money back into the consumer's hands.
YES, Japansese discs are more expensive, but EVERYTHING is more expensive in Japan. Games are more expensive, electronics are more expensive, food is more expensive, get sed to it. Things are cheaper in the US. So RELATIVE to the average purchase price of an item, the costs of anime DVDs are not as LESS expensive than the Japanese DVDs as they should be. Yes, in Japan they have to pay for Cable. Do do I. I also have to pay for my Internet connection, and through that I can watch the anime they can watch on Cable. We both pay fees there, it's a wash. Anime DVDs cost too much. You really can't argue otherwise. They should balance out to the same price as US series, roughly $40-50 for a 26 episode, 520 minute season, however they choose to divide that up in packaging. Anything more than that IS price gouging, either by the US companies for markng up the price that high, or by the Japanese companies for charging way too much for a product that they've pretty much recoupped the costs on already in their own country. |
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Swordfish_II
 Posts: 617 |
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The licensor doesn't make the episodes, but they still have to pay tens of thousands, if not a hundred thousand something dollars per episode. Then redo half of that (dubbing the audio).
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Colonel Wolfe
Posts: 370 |
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Gantz is being charged at the rate of $20 for two episodes. How is that a decent price? Like I said, before I spend $30 an episode for an anime DVD I'll just download the blasted thing. Why should I pay $10 for a single anime episode if I can download it for free?
If these anime companies want to change the minds of anime fans they're going to have to start thinking more intelligently at the pricing structure for anime. When Bubblegum Crisis 2140, Martian Successor Nadesico and Silent Mobius all originally came out. I didn't have any interest in purchasing them. During these past few months they have come our at either lower prices ($12.99) each or in a budget-priced package. Why should fans jump in on a new series when these companies are only loooking to gouge as much from their pockets as they can. I can tell you that I wouldn't pick up an anime series, a new anime series, if they were priced in the $30 price ranger range. I have purchased over 150 different anime DVD's during these past five years. These DVD's have ranged anywhere from $14.99-$24.99. Very few at $24.99, befoore you start that argument. With the Tenchi Muyo anime series, a series I very much enjoy, I didn't purchase them when they originally came out, although I did pay $100 for the OVA collector's set a few years back. Most of these volumes I paid $14.99 per DVD. EVen FUNimation was kind enough to release the Tenchi Muyo: GXP series at the rate of $14.99 per DVD, through Best Buy of course. Bear in mind, that these companies sell each DVD for right around $5-8 per DVD and that market research you're talking about? It's NOT market research when theyt look at how much each company sells their DVD's for. They don't take polls from fans asking how much they're willing to pay for them either. This is a deliberate attempt by these companies to drain the fans of their money without giving them anything back in return. "Market Research" is just a convenient excuse by these companies so that they don't have to answer the question in detail. Every business sets their own "Suggested Retail Price" or SRP as it's well know for a particular market. It's not Market Research. It's a tool they use to gauge how much maximum potential they can get for their product. |
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Kazuki-san
Posts: 2251 Location: Houston, TX |
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Colonel Wolfe, I don't really feel like debating this right now, as you're going to feel the way you do no matter what I say. I'll make it pretty simple. EVERY decently sized company, that deals with ANYTHING is looking to maximize their profit. That cannot be argued. But, at the same time, higher prices does not equal higher profit. A balance of price plus volume does. No company is going to charge, what you think is a gouging price, because it will cut down on volume. Conversely, they aren't going to charge a ridiculousy low price, because the increased volume will not make up for the loss of money overall. This is especially true in a market like anime, where there is essentially a wall that marks the number of copies that can be sold. Regardless of what people may think, all of these companies employ the same kind of marketing and research people that any other company does. If you want to argue the price is too high for you, that's fine. But the price is exactly what it needs to be for them to keep the business going smoothly. To be honest, most people agree that current prices are fine, otherwise people would simply stop buying them. A minority may have done so, and a larger number may complain about it, but people haven't stopped buying. IMO, and I'm not talking about you, but rather others who complain about the price, I'm quite certain they would complain even if the cost was $5 per DVD with 6 eps. The simple fact is anime is a niche market, it most likely will never be completely mainstream. Niche products cost more. That's just the way it is because of the wall I described earlier.
As for Ohoni, I can certainly argue otherwise that they cost too much, and I have done so many times before with you, as have others. You simply cannot equate US TV series DVD collections with anime. They are not the same. I've explained this to you, but perhaps you still don't understand, or more likely, you don't care. I'm not wiling to repeat myself for the hundredth time, so you are welcome to your opinion. |
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