Forum - View topicNEWS: Mainstream Moe Raises Artist's Ire
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burzmali
Posts: 143 |
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Right you are, but bondage and rape porn have to fail all three legs of the Miller test to be illegal, not just the SLAPS test. Like it or not, that's the law, write Congress if you disagree.
Depending on a Miller test, it might not be, but fortunately for them, at least it can be made without explicitly committing a crime and it doesn't serve as a binky for more dangerous tastes.
How about if the child porn is made in a country where the creation of such material is legal? Surely then it must be okay, right? The prohibition of child porn is not solely because of the means of its creation.
Maybe you aren't following my logic. Fantasizing about sex with children is the sign of an unhealthy individual, and unhealthy individuals don't always know the difference between right and wrong. Fantasizing about killing someone day after day, night after night is unhealthy too, and if the cops find out about it you might not be arrested, but you will get slapped with a TRO.
Jail? No, well, not immediately. First step in dealing with a crack addict is taking away their crack pipe. More importantly, if someone is fantasizing about children being violated, they need help, either to stop, or to get the heck out of the country.
Do you really think that Tsutomu Miyazaki, a pudgy little otaku with poor dexterity, could have even copped a feel of an adult woman without getting beat down? Let's face it, most hardcore fans of truly nasty pornography that get up the courage to create their own "masterpieces" are usually loners that aren't very athletic. And yes, while kidnapping and rape of adult women happens everyday, the group of people performing the attacks contains far fewer "loser otaku" stereotypes then does the group that preys on children. Don't get me wrong, I am sure that would-be rapists that can't easily subdue an adult could turn to children regardless of porn preference. |
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astra
Posts: 131 |
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Ummm, no. Fans of 'nasty' porn come in all shapes and sizes. They can be gay, straight, male, female, misogynists, pedophiles, etc. A majority of rape is premeditated crime, and if the attacker was an otaku type he could easily plan a way to subdue an adult, such as with a gun. I think you're getting a little carried away... A "loser otaku" type might be drawn to more submissive women or innocent children, but its not because he thinks they are easier to rape. I think the problem with some of the loli fans in this thread is that they don't think pedophilia is inherently wrong. This is kind of frustrating for those of us who know it's wrong but lets not make silly statements... |
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Doddler
Posts: 20 |
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Last I checked fantasizing about anything you damn well please is legal. HitokiriShadow said it better than I could have:
Well said. 
I think thats been apparent the whole time.
I thought a bit about this for a bit, and I think what you're trying to tell me is that one of these two fantasies is more wrong than the other simply because it would be easier to execute in real life. I don't think the difficulty of the crime has anything to do with severity, other than the act itself which is committed.
Serial killers usually make a pretty big splash no matter who thier victims. I don't understand how this point is really relevant to the discussion, you make it sound like everyone who has an interest in loli is a likely candidate to become a serial killer. My comment was to acknowledge that the media has a nice track record of creating moral panic if its convenient for them to pick a "trigger" for the crime. You've seen it for guns, music, video games for example.
If you're refering to the case of Dwight E. Whorley, you'll have to realize that he was on parole for a previous child pornography conviction, and was in posession durring his recent arrest of real child pornography. The press release feels the need to mention that he was also in posession of adult anime but with his guilty plea, it means the new law has not actually been tested in courts. You're free to correct me if I'm wrong, but the PROTECT Act of 2003 specifically mentions that thier definition of pornography does not cover loli. "This definition does not apply to depictions that are drawings, cartoons, sculptures, or paintings depicting minors or adults.’’. If such works are to be deemed illegal, its going to have to be determined to be obscene on the same standard as other pornography.
I did not mean to imply that one wouldn't be accountable for thier actions. I ment to say that just because a person is a pedophile does not mean he is willing to perform a crime. And that said, a person who has no interest in children is still capable of performing a sexual crime against a child. Whether or not a person would commit such a sexual crime "may be influenced by other factors such as personality traits, the severity of psychosocial stressors, personal inhibitions, substance abuse, or opportunities." For the most part, the same set of conditions that would affect almost any crime. This is a slightly unrelated but still interesting point. This is from a behavioral analasis of child molesters created by the department of justice. "Not all child molesters are pedophiles. A pedophile is an individual who prefers to have sex with children. A person who prefers to have sex with an adult partner may, for any number of reasons, decide to have sex with a child. Such reasons might include simple availability, opportunity, curiosity, or a desire to hurt a loved one of the molested child. The erotic imagery and sexual fantasies of such individuals are not necessarily recurrent, intense, and focused on children; therefore, these people are not pedophiles." Source |
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hanachan01
 Posts: 504 |
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I'm a huge yaoi fan. I watch it, read it, draw it, etc. I even belong to a yaoi RP board. That said, I don't want to become a man.(you know I'm female, right?)
It's similar for a loli fan. Just because they like loli doesn't mean they are going to rape a child. Yes, there may be something wrong with them, but that doesn't mean that they are going to be child molesters. I think that someone needs to warn them of what could happen if they molest a child, and the fact that real child porn is illegal. Not all loli fans are Tsutsomu Miyazaki and Michael Jackson, but some are. Don't generalize that loli=rapist. Some loli fans realize the fact that rape and child molestation are illegal, and some do not. It's similar to the idea that not all anime fans like Pokemon. Those who are not in the know about anime might think think that, but as anime fans, we know that some like Pokemon and some do not. I hope I made sense 
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burzmali
Posts: 143 |
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Check the history on that. While the rest of the material made the case a slam dunk, the original arrest and the primary charge was for the loli material.
I shouldn't have to correct you, the law is on the Internet and while the first sections deal with actual child abuse and porn the last section is about drawings and cartoons.
Why do you insist on making me repeat myself? Animated Child porn must only fail a SLAPS test, while other material is obscene if it fails a SLAPS test and the other two legs of the Miller Test. |
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Doddler
Posts: 20 |
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And what I'm saying is that despite what you might think, not all loli works are going to fail the SLAPS test. When I looked up the SLAPS test, I found that it read "Whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value." While it may sound strange to someone unfamiliar to such a thing, the majority of mainstream loli products from japan take the form of either 'visual' novel type games (interactive stories with images representing the current scene), and as manga. Most of these products are created by adult artist and/or writers, and contain theme, characterization, plot, and other literary techniques to provide a unique experience to the viewer. The genre has evolved alot over recent years in order to make it presentable as a legitimate form of adult entertainment. Obviously not all loli falls into this category and it is true, like any other genre of pornography there are indeed depraved works which would fall within the classic definition of obscenity. But you're wrong to presume that anything loli is outright going to fail to contain the merits to pass the test. |
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jaybug39
 Posts: 552 Location: Oregon, Is it FOOTBALL yet? |
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I doubt I can add anything usefull to this thread, but just to let you know how I feel about the interview. How do you say "anything you say comrade Stalin." in Russian, or Japanese?
I must have missed something in the interview. I saw the mention of Maid Cafes, and how that is pedophilia. Of course I saw this after reading the news articles provied by Dargonxtc, which listed the average age of maids at 20 years. This is pedophilia? Since when? Better ban all cheerleading activites, or stop the mini skirts, all that fanservice! 
If conservative Christian communities can handle cheerleaders, how are maid cafes with older women pedophilia? Maybe we better make all female athletes cover up to Muslim standards, as someone may get aroused. We ought to just make one super thread between here and moe tournament, and the wrong to like hentai/ anime girls? they all seem to be devolving to the same thing. Self-righteous, and perverts. No room for middle ground, or common sense. P.S. Does having been a sailor count Dormcat? |
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hooliganj
 Posts: 113 Location: Longhorn Central |
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Despite the direction this conversation has taken, I still don't think that was the purpose of the statement. The issue being taken up is whether or not it is appropriate for a society to encourage fetishism of any type, not just lolita - but it's easy to see where someone might get the wrong impression from the small portion of the interview that's been translated. |
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Pleroma
 Posts: 443 Location: Eromanga island |
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Its sad how many people would agree to having a thought police for the sake of protecting children, or anyone else for that matter. Pray to whatever deity you believe in that you never get your wish, because sooner or later your number would come up and you would curse the world you chose.
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astra
Posts: 131 |
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Wait, so you want us to wish that we never get our wish? But what if we wish that those who wish that we never get our wish are whisked away by the thought police? OMG THOUGHT POLICE! |
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burzmali
Posts: 143 |
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Ya know what, wth, enjoy your hobby, wtf, why not? Tsutomu Miyazakis only come around what, once a decade? That's plenty of time to indulge in a behaviour you yourselves admitted to be unhealthy. Of course, 3 or 4 school girls later when the soccer moms of America are out for blood and your IP shows up on a bit torrent, I am sure that the police and FBI will happily accept your explaination that it is perfectly normal for grown men to masterbate to images of prepubscent children because those children were drawn and not real. Oh, and yell THOUGHT POLICE at them too, that'll scare them away for sure.
In case you missed my point, here is a break down: 1. It is illegal (I am talking good ol' hardcore loli stuff here, not the one girl in a dozen in some dating sim stuff) 2. It is an unhealthy behaviour (any behaviour can be unhealthy, but I am betting that any shrink would set the bar low for a loli fixation) 3. Once a Miyazaki shows up, you're screwed (fair or not, public outcry often dictates public policy) Now, things that I haven't said: 1. You should go to jail for looking a loli (I think some otaku need help, not prison, and the industry could police itself to satisfy the SLAPS test) 2. All loli fans are potential child rapists (No they aren't, but some are, and in my opinion the percentage is high enough to warrant some response from the government) For reference, several people have posted on this board freely admitting that they see nothing wrong with sex with children while defending loli material. Those are the people I worry about, they already have the line between right and wrong blurred, how much harder would it be for them to cross it? |
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