Forum - View topicNEWS: Mainstream Moe Raises Artist's Ire
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jmays
ANN Associate Editor
 Posts: 1390 Location: St. Louis, MO |
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Aw c'mon, it couldn't have been more than a few seconds. ;p At any rate, I'd never heard of her before the Mainichi article, so it would be helpful if you'd translate some more of those Wiki details for her profile. |
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PantsGoblin
 SubscriberEncyclopedia Editor  Posts: 2969 Location: L.A. |
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Woah, woah, woah. Do you have any other reason for asking this other then to "be able to say" that "I'm a sick person" and "should be put in jail"? (which is irrelevant and adds absolutely nothing to this conversation) Please explain yourself on that one. I don't have any right to answer you, but because I'm such a nice guy, I'll answer your question anyway. If by "pedophile" you mean that I like child pornography, then no. If by "pedophile" you mean I like loli (animated child pornography), then yes, there is some that I like. Now you can go ahead and call me a sick person who needs to be put in jail and derserves their head to be cut off because I had a dirty thought about animated child pornograhpy. While we're at it, let's also lock up all those nasty people who have, at some point in their life, thought about something else illegal or immoral (oh wait, that would include EVERYBODY). Last edited by PantsGoblin on Sun May 14, 2006 7:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Zeiram
 Posts: 317 |
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myself, i'm only a fan of such shows cause of two things
cute innocent fluff and for lack of a better story with certain elements (if by better you mean older characters) its rough being on a fringe |
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Navak
Posts: 88 |
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If by "nazi" you mean I support a holocaust then no. If by "nazi" you mean that I support an animated holocaust, then yes, I do.
Hmmm, I guess that works better when thinking about banging kids. Carry on. |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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Neither have I. Even the first few Google search I performed with 坂本, the most common kanji of "Sakamoto," didn't come back with satisfactory results. Then an idea crossed my mind: "Could she be a right-wing extremist using all-hiragana (for being a female) family name?" Goggled with さかもと, and "voilà!" Finding this only confirmed my claim. I suggest whoever wants to continue discussions in this thread should learn more about akusho tsuihou undou (悪書追放運動, "'Banish Bad Books' movement") before continuing. Last edited by dormcat on Sun May 14, 2006 8:08 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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jmays
ANN Associate Editor
Posts: 1390 Location: St. Louis, MO |
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Until now, it looks like her biggest exposure was a cartoon in Time Asia.
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Panon
Posts: 242 |
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Yes, kudos to her for having a broadly generalising temper tantum over modern day anime nerds not being her kind of anime nerd publicised! Reads like a desperate sensationalist grab for attention to me. 'Moe' is more often than not not even sexual (look at how people like Ken Akamatsu or similar define it), nor is it bound by any character age so calling it "pedophilic" is pretty short sighted. The whole anime/manga nerd superiority complex with that "no girls will ever like you so real otaku should just shut themselves away" thing is pretty laughable. |
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Ryllharu
 Posts: 70 |
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So...I'm guessing from this cartoon she wrote that she's a staunch conservative to the point of wanting all women to go back to being perfect, ultra-feminine, housewives? Like 1950's American Dream perfect? That ideal just doesn't exist, and never really did outside of television, movies, and magazines. And she thinks Otaku are fantasizing? I agree she has some good points about shut-ins and some of the so called 'moe' stuff is a bit on the pedephile side, but this really becomes a "Calling the kettle black" issue after reading that "Girl's guide to finding happiness in Japan" cartoon. |
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jmays
ANN Associate Editor
Posts: 1390 Location: St. Louis, MO |
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From that particular cartoon, no. She covered those types in the "Desperate Housewife" column, and the cartoon it titled When No Choice is a Good One. As for the other one Dormcat linked, I have no clue since I can't read it. ;p |
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weirdofu
Posts: 34 |
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I guess I should point out that most articles that were originally written in japanese than translated should be taken with a grain of salt. The same goes for terms that originated from japanese slang and then gets popularized to the point where people in other countries pick it up.
From a practical stand point, its like playing the game telephone where instead of passing on a message, you pass on a definition and possibly translate the definition to another language in the process. Truly, we may not know what the original denotations and connotations of "moe" and "otaku" (well, many know more about the "otaku"). So, I don't think we should be quick to judge her interpretation of the terms based on the current connotation we may each hold for the term. Its like what Socrates said (I think) you have to define your terms so people can argue on the same grounds and not argue about a subject when each side hold a different interpretation of what the other side means. For all we know, "moe" could very well have started with a sexual connotation, which I personally expected revolves around the fact that "moe" may very well spawned from hentai and doujinshi origins and then washed white as it got popularized. So, let's not blast her for what she believes in, which to her definitions of the terms is very correct. As for being an otaku, well, that whole concept has been washed out over the years too. Its sort of like how the words "nerd" and "geek" have gotten less negative over the years. |
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jmays
ANN Associate Editor
Posts: 1390 Location: St. Louis, MO |
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Can you give a quick rundown of the movement and how it's relevant for those of us who don't know Japanese? |
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Josh7289
Posts: 1252 |
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Some people have misunderstood what I said. What I said was that people who act out on these pedophilic moe fetishes should be locked up. Also, the fact that the Japanese government is taking a backseat to the problem, even compared to the United States governemnt, does not help. Frankly, child pornography is child pornography, no matter if it is drawn or if it is real. However, the difference between the two is that a crime of child abuse is committed with the real one. Drawn child pornography is not a crime, since no one is necessarily hurt, but a "social crime" is still committed, usually punished by society discarding the person who likes this stuff, further putting them in a worse position, if you want to talk about their reasons for liking this stuff in the first place.
Really, in the end, Sakamoto was just ranting about the moe pedophiles in Japan, and I agree with her about them, and how those that commit true crimes must be locked up, even though her other beliefs are more than laughable. |
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barbapapa
 Posts: 224 Location: Belgium |
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I have my questions at how Sakamato's words were translated, because there is just a huge gap between lolicon and moe. This is no discussion about moe at all, since moe is just a lot wider a concept than that of 'lolicon' content.
And on that subject, while technically there should be nothing legally wrong about lolicon hentai, it's just a matter of morals. I mean you're basically gawking at an undevelopped body. But then the question rises, how do you define undevelopped? I've seen women who don't look a day over 12, especially in Japan. And just suppose you fall in love with such a girl, and like her features, does that make you a pedophile? You can say lolicon is morally wrong, and I'll aggree with you, but the facts are it's just fiction. There are loads of manga and anime that portray girls who look very developped and then just completely take you by surprise saying they're only 14 years old. So technically you're a pedophile by liking them, according to such reasoning. There's a very thin line in this discussion, that's so easily crossed from both ways. Of course there are extremes, where it's just plain animated child porn. You say there are no victimes (which is just a way to make them feel better about what they're getting hard over), but there's always a chance people that fantasize over those want to act them out at one point. So it comes down to a matter of moral again, you can't just lock people up for imagining things (even if the point of the fantasy is to make it seem real). Last edited by barbapapa on Sun May 14, 2006 9:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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icepick314
 Posts: 486 Location: Back in the Good Ol' US of A |
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"Can't we all just get along?"
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Navak
Posts: 88 |
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With 314 icepicks and 313 people, we sure can get along. |
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