Forum - View topicNEWS: Mainstream Moe Raises Artist's Ire
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[Bond]
 Posts: 12 |
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I'm not sure that impression is any better than the one you think tempest presented. Promoting teenage pregnancy? Children as property? |
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hikaru004
 Posts: 2306 |
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Well, the law is the law. Parental consent is a part of underaged marriage in all the states with the waiver for pregnancy in some states. Court permission is also necessary in some states. No one is promoting teen pregnancy. Underaged individuals do not normally have the rights of an adult unless they are emancipated minors. The implication that underaged indviduals can get married without restrictions needed to be clarified imo. This is also OT and I'll stop again. |
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[Bond]
Posts: 12 |
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Allowing the pregnancy to continue is promotion. |
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The Xenos
 Posts: 1519 Location: Boston |
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Ah, you are correct. Yes, Japan does have a large live action pornographic indutstry. I should have infcluded that into context. Though certainly they do have more animated porn than the US, which has next to none. In fact, if you look on the same page as this artist's interview, if it's still there, there's a news article on the rash of attacks on women by such pornographers. They attack random women on the street and pull off their clothes while videotaping the thing for sale. Of course, there's also the moe trend in Japanese live action porn as you point out. Not that it's much different in America. Also in Japan, you have actual underage girls posing in swimsuits and such in photo books and videos. That idol Saya Irie is like 12 years old and has gotten quite popular. There's also a number of underage idol singing groups in Japan which I believe is a quite popular trend. |
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hikaru004
Posts: 2306 |
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No way I'm touching that subject with a 10 ft poll. *Runs away to the moe section of the thread.* |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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Okay, let me put it another way. That's one of the ways we get pedophiles. Other ways are through sexual abuse and exposure to it at a young age. It still doesn't matter. Porn is porn, whether it be mainstream or loli, because it's got SEX, and let me say it again, SEX in it, that's the main reason for porn. That's the connection. It's ALL the same. And yes I've seen porno, American and Japanese, and it includes hentai also. Let me also point out that I've read loli porn manga and yaoi.
So it's California that's really paranoid and stuff that you have to be 18 to be married and have sex. |
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astra
Posts: 131 |
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Dormcat, would you mind giving us a rough summary for her other comic that is in Japanese? Please be clear and provide English definitions for those who don't understand the Japanese. Please provide evidence that she is indeed linked to the 'banish bad books movement.' Until then, all your posts should be treated as insinuations and not fact. And as Tempest already said, saying that she has no right to judge lolicon and moe because she drew hentai is a red herring because loli hentai and regular porn are quite different.
Because by just looking at her comic in Time, I'd say that she is not arguing that women need to return to the home. She seems to be saying that women have a pretty rotten lot all around. Which I can connect to her critisicm of moe, in that it reduces women to a certain characteristic, often one that is extremely childish which leads to viewers wanting to "protect" them. Her opinion on the sad state of womanhood in Japan in the first comic can be extended to her opinion in the article. What we see in the moe subculture are women who only have certain characteristics, such as the quiet meganekko or the submissive loli, and not full fledged women. This will only become a bigger problem as moe increases in popularity. |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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I'm sorry, did you just say loli "hentai" and regular "porn" are quite different? Because if you did, then I don't know what you've been watching. Many people on this website agree that there is no difference between hentai and porn, because, as has been stated, the main purpose of those kinds of movies is to have sex. End of question. Whether it's animated or not, they're trying to get genitals into the mainframe, which means it's porn. And that includes hentai because hentai is just an animated version of it. |
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astra
Posts: 131 |
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I consider hentai to be a form of porn. My statement in fact implies that they are one and the same. My point was that one involves underage characters and one involves people of age. This should be quite obvious. I don't even know why I've bothered to reply to you.
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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Why should I? Are you going to pay me the translation fee? What good will they make, anyway? I myself is not fluent in Japanese, and my translation, while should be acceptable overall, may contain errors here and there, creating new initiatives attracting criticism. I'm tired of being always the information provider. In order to uphold the right for not being trialed with thought crime, I've digged up as many manga I could find by Sakamoto, Introduction to Otakuology by Toshio Okada, as well as Vienna Convention, and what I get in return? "You are sick cause you like moe loli." Not worth it. Really.
First, I've never said she's linked to the movement. I said,
The more recent ones are not a solid "movement." Rather, it's a shapeless trend, and I can't provide you any concrete fact or evidence about it. Second, I never said that my opinions were facts. The only two posts of facts were quotations of Sakamoto and Vienna Convention. There are few solid facts here in this thread, especially the definition of "otaku" and "moe" are still highly disputed. I do have confidence that my opinions were educated ones, though.
Another misquote. Go tell fighterholic, not me. Moreover, the nude drawings of an 18-year-old (legal) and a 16-year-old (ILLEGAL!! PERVERT!! SICK!!) are quite similar, at least way more similar than the comparison of nude drawings of an 18-year-old and an 80-year-old (both legal, yet...ahem).
There are dozens types of moe; the definition listed in ANN's lexicon, however, is just part of it. In summary, I don't like Sakamoto's article, not because she dislikes moe-loving otaku, but because
*Returns reciting Martin Niemöller's lament* |
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astra
Posts: 131 |
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And yet you felt perfectly willing to provide your information on the first page of the thread, introducing a red herring with no bearing to the actual discussion? The fact is, you are the only one in this thread who seems to know anything about Sakamoto beyond the scope of the article. Alot of people who are reading this are taking what you wrote at face value without questioning it. If you aren't willing to provide a summary beyond your snappy comments, then don't introduce it at all. If your Japanese skills are not up to par, why should we trust your interpretation of those few dubious links you posted? Alot of the people in this thread are now under the impression that Sakamoto is a conservative interested in squashing the rights of women, on the level of Ann Coulter as someone pointed out. You need to clarify your outside information about Sakamoto that has lead to this view.
Oi vey. Seriously, just ignore those comments. I do think you're sick if you enjoy loli, but I don't think you should be locked up for it, kthxbye. And I don't care what you are reciting, and for god's sake bolding it just makes you seem like an even bigger pretentious prick. |
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hikaru004
Posts: 2306 |
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You need to read the links he provided and my last 2 statements on the matter. That's why I posted them so that people wouldn't think that you can marry at age 12 without restrictions placed on it. Reality is different from what was initially presented. Marriage is a legal contract in the US and underaged sex is labeled as statutory rape. 2 different concepts. |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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Actually he provided facts as well as a bio file about this so called joke of an "otaku".
I trust what is said in Japanese because I have about 9 years experience of the language and living in Japan. Don't think dormcat is the only one who can speak Japanese. |
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RodimusBen
Posts: 25 Location: Harrisonburg, VA |
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Man, there are a lot of Thought Police in here. I'm glad that none of you are getting anywhere near the law books.
I don't have enough knowledge to level an opinion on this. But keep this in mind: if you want to lock away as pedophiles all people who have sexual thoughts about children, then you have to lock away all people who people who have fantasies as rapists, murderers, or whatever their particular Thought Crime may be. And you will find the world outside of prison to be a pretty lonely place. We MUST NOT allow societies to punish people for their thoughts. Such an erosion of personal freedom is the last step toward total government control. |
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drowz
 Posts: 13 Location: On a bus between Hamilton and Ottawa |
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While Sakamoto's tone is somewhat extreme she does make some reasonable points on the issue. Don't know how she came to become so hard on moe, maybe she's starting to care more about kids/teens as she gets older or just met too many weirdos while she was in the porn drawing business who knows. However, I think it's pretty pathetic that some try to slander her opinion by bringing up her past personal life or her other beliefs. If she's honestly trying to change or enlighten something she feels is negative towards society, then debate on that and not resort to low blows. Her hypocrisy is a battle for another day.
Dormcat's translations seem alright, been reading Japanese day on last year. But yeah, it's quite a hassle having to bring in references and translating text for a some curious buggers. I'd suggest though then the ol' share nothing or share everything mantra be used because this is primarily an English language site and most likely 99% of the readers don't have a strong grasp of Japanese or any other language as a whole. No point in tossing in a bunch of foreign text and getting some people interested then walking out once you've gotten the attention you wanted. |
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Yeah it's all cartoon and anime in japan, not real people.
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