Forum - View topicThe Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya (TV).
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hentai4me
 Posts: 1313 Location: England. Robin is so Cute! |
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Depends on which type of moe you ascribe to. I personally find moe to be more on the side of wanting to help them out, care for them, make them happier, ease their suffering etc rather than the cuter character wins. So I supose the kind of Paternal feeling one has for their children or an injured animal. Hence I don't find any of the girls from the SOS Brigade that moe. Yuki has the quiet, shy girl moe but she's also exceptionally capable and not unhappy or in need of assistance so I don't feel anything much for her. Haruhi is loud and abraisive, definately not moe, true there's her feelings of being nothing, but that seems to be more a driving force in her life rather than something she is particularly unhappy about. Mikuru...true she's taken advantage of but she's again not particularly affected by this in any meaningful way, embarrased at the time yes and missing a day or two here and there but nothing to get worked up about. I know there are many different types of moe characters and so obviously some people will see these girls as more or less moe depending upon which type of moe they ascribe to. Just for reference I find characters like Nana (Elfen Lied), Chise (Saikano), Misuzu (Air), Mayu (Elfen Lied) and Lucy; not Nyuu though; (Elfen Lied) to be moe. |
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Mylene
 Posts: 2792 Location: Indiana |
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I think your prediction is on spot. But we could always try to go for more of a discussion of the show, beyond the episode descriptions that occurred for so long. For example, I'm not sure how many women watched this show (why can't avatars be an accurate depiction of the poster's sex?  ), but I personally found the scenes of Mikuru being pestered by Haruhi less than enjoyable. While I comprehend the enjoyment others would have gotten out of them, I didn't particularly find them that funny, nor did I usually like Mikuru's character when they were in the club room. It just sort of rubbed me the wrong way. Although I honestly cannot fully describe what it was about those scenes that bothered me. (Objectification, maybe? But that doesn't feel quite right in my gut...)
However, there were also many times when I really liked Mikuru. When she tells Kyon the truth about what she is, I absolutely loved the way she'd tell him "That's classified information." It felt like that was her true personality coming out, and I prefered that unfettered side of her, compared to the one being stripped and thrown into bunny costumes by Haruhi. Her spoiler[future self seemed to be such a change, and it makes me wonder how much of that was due to being unfettered with the mission, or if Kyon's influence on her during the mission changed her]. And I really liked the scene with her and Kyon spoiler[fighting over that mouse as he tries to keep her from seeing the 'mikuru' file.] Once again, she seemed unfettered, and at the same time they both were acting truly like high school students, particularly 1st years. It was a breath of fresh air, and helped balance out my sometimes negative view of Mikuru (which usually only happen when Haruhi's around.) Of course, I could go on right now and discuss my favorite character, Yuki, but I think that's perhaps enough to spark a little conversation. After all, while this is not a favorite anime for me, I do think it is very good, and deserves a bit more conversation about the show itself rather than other offshoots like rankings, reviews, etc. |
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hentai4me
Posts: 1313 Location: England. Robin is so Cute! |
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I have to agree, I usually find the kind of 'forced sexual activity' bit annoying, the squealing and screaming rather than what happens on screen. It grates me so much.
Now Yuki...that's more interesting, her bookworminess, I find that...attractive in a girl 
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Steroid
 Posts: 329 Location: At home, where all good hikikomori should be |
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No, someone is a sheep because they think superlative an anime that presents an oddball girl who, at show's end, is not so odd after all. If I were to state a theme for the show, it would be that the weird people of the world are, deep down, normal, and use their oddities as a defense mechanism. To find this theme refreshing or satisfying would seem to indicate that the viewer is themself normal, or wishes to be. Popularity has nothing to do with it. If the show had ended with Haruhi discovering her powers and using them to make her and Kyon the world's rulers with the rest of the SOSers as court, it would have satisfied me and, perhaps, been no less popular. |
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Vortextk
 Posts: 892 Location: Orlando, Fl |
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So many if's and assumptions and subjective "I'm right cause" statements that I don't need to respond.
Say what you want to, you only like feeling better than other people because you believe them to be some kind of "simple minded conforming buffoon". Your statement about the show may be sound, but just because it doesn't happen how you like it, doesn't mean the rating of the majority is somehow inferior to your own. |
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Steroid
Posts: 329 Location: At home, where all good hikikomori should be |
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Those quote marks would indicate that I said that, which I didn't (had I, I would have hyphenated simple-minded and used the plural of buffoon. ^_^). And feeling "better than other people" is just a different way of being conformist. I want to judge things purely on my own standards.
No, and I didn't say that, nor did I imply it. It is my choice and my opinion and no one else is beholden to it. What I am saying is that you can use a person's values in fiction as a guide to their values in life, and that people who superlatively value a show about a strange girl who is fooled, entrapped, and ultimately revealed to be subject to the same slings and arrows as others, these people are likely to also value the fettering and metamorphisis of strange people in real life. |
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Vortextk
Posts: 892 Location: Orlando, Fl |
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"People who superlatively..."
Therefore people who don't, you in other words, are better? Right. Sorry, I didn't know you were Haruhi incarnated. I'll think twice before responding again to you. I can't question god now can I? Funny you even bother messing with us mere mortals. |
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selenta
 Subscriber Posts: 1774 Location: Seattle, WA |
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I know exactly what you mean, and I kinda went through stages of opinions on this show. At first of course I loved the way Haruhi treated Asahina and how she reacted, but as spoiler[you find out that Asahina is in fact not just a loli girl with big boobs, but as someone sent back in time who clearly has at least a LITTLE more going on in her head]I got pretty disgusted that she let herself be treated in such a way. However this stage didn't last long for me, since upon deciding I didn't like it I went to discuss it with my roomate. spoiler[As I was explaining it to him I realized that it she only really acts like a plaything when Haruhi is around or she is afraid Haruhi might walk in any second. Obviously then, Asahina is just acting as the loli girl with big breasts. I was still kind of upset until I realized why she acts like she does. Because Haruhi wants some loli girl with big breasts around that she can treat like that. If it wasn't Asahina, it would be someone else, and if it was someone else, and then she might actually persue Kyon. Obviously if the substitute loli girl with big breasts persued Kyon and let Kyon protect her from Haruhi, Haruhi would probably destroy the world  (christ, high-maintenence  ). The future is of course well aware of this, which is why they sent her specifically. In other words, if it wasn't Asahina being the plaything for Haruhi, the world would end. ] Overdramtic? Not really, it's so right it's funny.
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The Sphinx
 Posts: 36 Location: The End of The World |
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But that's not what the show's about. In fact, that's a pretty outrageous misunderstanding of Haruhi's situation. |
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W3b3r
Posts: 59 Location: Australia |
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I'm sorry but i seem to have missed the part where this thread turned into using a persons preferences in anime to judge them. Are you saying that because we like this anime we are likely to enjoy watching the changes and development of strange people in real life? |
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Steroid
Posts: 329 Location: At home, where all good hikikomori should be |
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Sigh. . . NO. I'm not saying better or worse. All I'm saying is that people who extol the series do so based on real-world values which are not mine, and that my own opinion is based on real-world values which are mine. I don't consider the people inferior, I consider their ideas unfitting for my situation.
Please give me your understanding. I welcome any interpretation that will bring the show into my favor.
That is what I said. I think there are people who say to themselves, "Haruhi is unusual and I'm glad that she doesn't know the true natures of Yuki and Asahina and Koizumi. I'm also glad that in the end spoiler[she found love so perhaps she's not so unusual after all.]" I think such people are also likely to say when encountering someone of my ilk, "I'm glad this person is not in a position of power. I hope that they're really not so different in their nature." |
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The Sphinx
Posts: 36 Location: The End of The World |
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Your argument is that "The show is about deceiving and therefore controlling a strange person". It seems that you think the show is pro-conformist. There are three ways to address this. 1) Haruhi isn't the only "abnormal" person in the show... Not by a long shot. She's the only one in the dark about the true nature of the world. Itsuki is an esper (one of only ten on the planet) and has a pretty good idea of exactly what is happening. Mikuru is a time traveller and thus has a good idea about exactly what's going on, too (she knows the future, after all). And Yuki is practically knowledge personified- very very little deceives her. How then can this show be about controlling non-conformists when the bulk of the cast is exceptional AND more or less in control of the situation? You surely can't argue that Yuki is under anyone's control (other than the aliens who created her, and they seem to have virtually limitless capabilities). If anyone is trying to "control" Haruhi it's other exceptional creatures, not normal people like Kyon. Normal people have almost no place in this show. 2) Haruhi deceives herself just as much as everyone else deceives her. She sees many unusual events that would pique the curiosity of "normal" people but she simply ignores them: For example, the real 'Mikuru Beam', Itsuki's esper glow, and the talking cat from the making of the student film. Haruhi saw them all and ignores them. She sees an astounding run of 11 home runs in a row in the baseball episode and never even comments on it (not to mention Kyon's incredible curve ball and Yuki's deadly throwing arm). She's a little surprised at Yuki's ability to play a guitar with no practice at all but is not motivated to investigate. And she brushes off all the events of Episode 14 as a strange dream even though Kyon hints that he was really there. Wouldn't someone who was interested in the supernatural like Haruhi be even a little curious about synchronous dreams? And as if that wasn't enough... spoiler[At the beginning of Volume 2 Kyon tells Haruhi exactly who and what Yuki, Itsuki, and Mikuru are. Tells her straight to her face that SOS-Dan is filled with espers, aliens, and time travellers. Haruhi flat-out refuses to believe him, concludes that Kyon is making fun of her, and then uses his 'joke' as the plot for her student film.] The three factions (of ABNORMAL people) may be trying to keep Haruhi unaware of their existence, all for their own reasons. Kyon (the NORMAL person) certainly isn't. 3) The show praises non-conformity. It makes it look like a lot of fun. Kyon gripes about it but then in the last episode basically says that he likes all the excitement Haruhi brings... In fact that's why he wants to return to the old world. Haruhi is just plain more fun than normal people like Taniguchi. Therefore I come to precisely the opposite conclusion as you- the show is escapism for people who are bored with the real world.
Frankly I know nothing about you, you know nothing about me, and drawing conclusions about how I would react if I ever met you is very silly. |
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frentymon
Forums Superstar
 Posts: 2362 Location: San Francisco |
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I'll revise my prediction now.
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Steroid
Posts: 329 Location: At home, where all good hikikomori should be |
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Except that they're all working for something: the preservation of the world. Their knowledge is all in aid of this. I have more respect for what's-her-name, Asakura, as she was looking out for her own position. She tried to kill to do it, and that's wrong, but her goals were honorable
Which goes to my point of Haruhi being normal at heart. She doesn't actually believe in her aliens, espers, and time travelers, despite her assertions.
Hence "I think there are people who. . . " I don't say every SHnY fan is like this, but I do think there are some. |
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selenta
Subscriber Posts: 1774 Location: Seattle, WA |
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Please people, stop talking to steroid about the same stuff, he's voiced his opinion and it's really notthing to debate, he seems to value selfishness over selflessness. Either he's an asshole to the core, or he's just trying to start shlt. It's ok to ignore critisism sometimes people, especially if it's from a dubious source
This thread isn't 'Steroid' vs. 'Those Conformists Who Think Steroid on Crack', it's about Haruhi the show, if people STILL insist on ignoring the attempts that people like me have made to try and bring this thread back on track to the show and related revelations and insights, I would suppot it being locked. If you really want to have an extrended 30 page debate, do it somewhere else prease. |
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