Forum - View topicThe Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya (TV).
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selenta
 Subscriber Posts: 1774 Location: Seattle, WA |
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As a physicist (if still only a fledgling), I really enjoy when shows take the effort to try and incorporate actually plausible or real ideas into the show. Having said that, Haruhi surprises me once again, and not in a small way. The anthropic principle is a surprisingly important aspect of philosophically interpreting the way subatomic particles act, and is described as well as I've ever heard it in episode 13.
I've read more than a few papers that dealt only with this idea and various observables in the universe (the one that jumps to mind was when researchers tried to explain the rings of light around stars when photographs were taken from extremly high resolution telescopes looking at gravitational lensing). God, I don't know who wrote this show, but I'd SOOOOoooo sex them up if I ever met them. |
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darkchibi07
 Posts: 5470 |
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So in a way spoiler[Haruhi acts the way she does because she feels insignificant compared to the overall world she lives in. So she attempts to be different by finding espers, time-travellers, and aliens of which deep down, she knows it's futile. I almost feel sorry for her.
 ]
I have an idea about Haruhi that incorperates that anthropic principle, but I want to eat dinner first. 
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Ryozo
 Posts: 6 Location: Olympus |
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I find it sort of ironic. spoiler[Haruhi thinks of herself as not important at all, and just an insignificant spec in a sea of millions of people. And yet, she is the one person who's the most important since she's like a god and all. Now what I want to know is what caused her to suddenly have these powers three years ago. Was it her own will which caused her powers to develop, once she found out she wasn't special? Did she always have these powers? Were they given to her? Is she the only one?]
I really liked this week's episode though, it makes you think. I love how they incorporated actual philosophy into it too, which made it all the more meaningful. I can't wait until the next episode and it could be the last! We'll see if our questions get answered, and if Kyon actually tells Mikuru about her mole. 
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frentymon
Forums Superstar
 Posts: 2362 Location: San Francisco |
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Shakugan no Shana!
spoiler[ "Closed space" = fuzetsu "<Celestial>" = Rinne "Esper" = Flame Haze ...and it looks to work just about the same way. Time is frozen, a monster appears, the monster is fought, one person stands there idly, monster is defeated, "closed space"/fuzetsu disappears. Until next time... Except fuzetsu is created at will, while "closed space" is "entered into" at a particular place. ] |
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Steroid
 Posts: 329 Location: At home, where all good hikikomori should be |
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If I were Kyon (which I'm not), I would still be skeptical. In order to accept the spoiler[Haruhi-as-god theory, I would also have to accept that:
-Koizumi is being completely honest. And since I know he's willing to conceal facts from Haruhi, I can assume he's willing to conceal them from me as well. Indeed, I could claim that it's no less likely that Kyon is the world-god who created Haruhi as a vessel through which to relieve his own boredom. -The "inherent information" Koizumi received three years ago was accurate. Isn't it possible that someone or something is attempting to lie to Koizumi? -All the implications of what Koizumi has said are true. He says that if Haruhi believes espers are common, they will become so. How do we know this? Perhaps Haruhi was a god, but is no longer. A sort of Haruhi-deism if you will. Or perhaps she will assume that "common" is exactly the number of espers there are now. Or perhaps she can be reasoned with. If she knew that she was controlling the world, she might be convinced to keep it the same or even make improvements. Since Koizumi's (stated) raison d'etre is to prevent any changes in the situation and keep Haruhi content, we can't conduct any experiments in the matter, which doesn't seem a very convincing argument. Kyon said it best: it's akin to a pseudoscientific religion.] |
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selenta
Subscriber Posts: 1774 Location: Seattle, WA |
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One thing I thought I'd add to what you're saying Steroid because there's one flaw with the last (and probably most important) part of what you're saying.
spoiler[Koizumi intends to keep the world as it is as much as possible, but that is entirely Koizumi's intention, not Kyon's (who has much more control over the situation according to Koizumi). If Kyon wanted to, he could test Koizumi's prediction for himself (at least many of the important parts). It is a psuedoreligion in theory... but unlike our religions, this one can be proven correct or wrong if Kyon really wished to.] Anyway, why do you think the title screen for the show says "Haruhism"
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Steroid
Posts: 329 Location: At home, where all good hikikomori should be |
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You are correct; I worded it poorly. spoiler[I should say that By Koizumi's theory, we can't conduct experiments. Pascal's Wager writ large. ] As to Haruhiism (two i's please), I have nothing against worship of an anime character; there's a few I list myself among preferred deities. But it's better if said character is a little more interesting and less conflicted than our dear Haruhi. A Godhead-type-character should be willing to hold himself or herself above the hoi polloi, but to also hold the faithful in such regard. The archetype of such characters in literature was Michael Smith from Stranger in a Strange Land. Haruhi has a ways to go before reaching that level. |
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omar235
 Posts: 1572 Location: Florida, Jacksonvile |
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Maybe the reason why she feels like she is an insignificant spec in the sea of people (even though she's very important) is because she views herself as unimportant, I guess I stated what everybody knew already, but changing the subject I would have to say that the people who wrote the story must really be smart because that whole "the universe exists because we exist" and "the universe has always existed even without humans" discussion was very deep.
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coolmac11
Posts: 5 Location: Toronto, Canada |
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Well, since we were introduced to Koizumi, Mikuru and Yuki and their special powers, dramatic irony was introduced. As Haruhi searches for espers, time travellers, and aliens, they were always by her side, and are concealing their identity, just to see where Haruhi's emotional traits takes them. We can easily compare this to Shakespeare's writing, like Romeo and Juliet, and see easily, that tragedy can be a possible out come as all this irony must lead to something. And even in episode 12, spoiler[near the end, we see Haruhi questioning her current life, as she is confused or possibly bored for searching for "imaginary beings." ] All I can say now is how every effect will create a cause and how it will ultimately affect the story in the long run.
P.S. They better animate volumes 2-(8?) or when ever this series finishes! |
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frentymon
Forums Superstar
Posts: 2362 Location: San Francisco |
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This is beginning to sound like Higurashi no Naku Koro ni with all the "Don't trust this, don't trust that, irony here, irony there..."
spoiler[I don't believe it's as complicated as that; Koizumi really has no reason to lie, and the information he acquired spontaneously seems to fit perfectly into the assumption that the information he acquired was true. It is possible that he is still concealing details, but I think his theory is not far off. At least I want to think that anyway; since the possibility of inaccurate information presented to Kyon (for whatever reason) complicates things by a lot.] |
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selenta
Subscriber Posts: 1774 Location: Seattle, WA |
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Hehe, I know what you mean frenty and I agree to a point. spoiler[I believe that everything Koizumi, Yuki, and Asahina says to Kyon is 100% true. They may sound like they have completely different theories at first, but they really are saying no such conflicting things. The "different" theories all lead to the same result and just address different aspects of the same phenomenon: Haruhi.
Yuki claims Haruhi has nearly unlimited ability to manipulate "data" (w/e the hell that means  ), and while it was probably not the intention of the writer (though it's sounding more realistic the more I think about it) the "explosion of data" the aliens found Haruhi to be the center of could be thought of as something similar to the Big Bang as she is the scientist among the group.
Koizumi just happens to come to "know" about Haruhi and kind of comes off as the religious icon in the group. He has magical powers and just kind of "knows" stuff, not to mention his seemingly "fated" battles against the monsters to save the world and his intention of never proving his hypothesis  .
I'm not sure Asahina has a good label in my mind like the other two, but people from the future couldn't travel back in time before the event three years ago and so they found Haruhi to be the reason/center of it all. None of these reasons or explanations is exclusive of the others, and if anything they are independent hypothesis that come up with the same result: Haruhi is a god of sorts, and does not realize it. If anything, this show is the exact OPPOSITE of Higurashi no Naku Koro ni: everything points to the same thing independently.] Oh, and my bad with the two 'i's, I just can't spell wierd made-up words well. |
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Vortextk
 Posts: 892 Location: Orlando, Fl |
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I think I'll have to go over this thread again when I finally do finish watching it.
I just finished episode 4, airing date episode 4(the baseball one), and I'm starting to finally see stuff. I guess even for a short 14 episode series like this, you need to get into it a bit first. Definitely interesting. I was about to ask what's the big deal until this episode, because it had been rather slow in anything other than comedy. I had to wait so long to start it anyway because I like finished anime...not waiting weekly like I already do with Bleach and Naruto. Only 1 episode left to come out and I can slowy watch the rest of it over this week anyway in preparation. I hope to be left as astounded as everyone else seems to be. |
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PantsGoblin
Subscriber Encyclopedia Editor  Posts: 2969 Location: L.A. |
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Too much serious dicussion on this page (in addition, I haven't seen the newest episode, so all the black on this page I can't read). I'm going to post something to lighten the mood.
That should do. |
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6867 Location: Kazune City |
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Wow, episode 13 just flew by for me.
Kyon: *goes home* Zalis: "What? It's over already??" I really liked the car/driving animation, quite smooth and more realistic than average--I'll forgive repeating backgrounds. Quite funny how the cab driver never once reacted to all the outlandish things that Kyon and Koizumi were talking about. Another quick burst of humor--when Kyon tells Haruhi, "You should become a detective," which she proceeds to do in later/earlier episodes  It really built up perfectly to episode VI / 14, though I'm wondering if they're going to have time to explain any more of Mikuru's situation in the final episode. Speaking of the final episode, wouldn't it be quite the uproar if a licensing announcement at AX precluded the expected 7/4 release of Melancholy~ 14? (Note: I don't have "insider knowledge" on this, it's just pure speculation.) So, I'm looking forward to the next and/or last episode, and since we're posting pictures... First, marvel at my elite MS Paint skills!
Pic 1 And the new and improved "Portable Loli" model, with a useful carrying strap for on-the-go convenience... 
Pic 2 (links to spare 56k users time loading pointless screenshots) |
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one3rd
 Posts: 1817 Location: アメリカ |
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Given the trip to the island, I had assumed that it wasn't a regular cab, but someone from his organization. |
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