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HitokiriShadow
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 6251
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:38 pm
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^ Yep. That's the thing. A lot of people want to own a legit copy, but 4kids won't give them an uncut version.
Basically, this article just reaffirms what we already know: 4kids sucks.
They don't even understand why the anime fans hate them.
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Kouji
Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Posts: 978
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:39 pm
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[quote="Zalis116"]
Kouji wrote: | Why did 4Kids need to change that? An episode just like that one with the scary dentists was presented in an episode of Sailor Moon and it was completely left in-tact in the dub and you don't see lots of parents sueing Cloverway for traumatizing children, do you?[/url]
Japanese audio-only DVDs, Edited English dub DVDs: This guy knows that hardcore fans hate his company, and I'm sure he knows that the purist fans of One Piece already have gigs and gigs of fansubs on hand, so selling sub-only DVDs to a fanbase that is loathe to give money to 4kids probably wouldn't be profitable.
Dual-audio uncut DVDs --due to all the TV edits, they'd have to do a new dub (which costs money) and include skipped episodes in order to make the video footage line up with the Japanese audio and subject matter. However, this would enrage parents buying DVDs for their kids, who expected something like the TV version, but then suddenly got all the violence/other objectionable material that had originally been edited out. Since this is the core audience, sales would suffer.
That's just my take on it, anyway. |
But not every anime 4Kids has licensed has fansubs that are easy to find. For example, while I can find some fansubs of the first Yugioh series on the Internet, there are no fansubs of Yugioh: Duel Monsters in existence. I was relying solely on 4Kids to provide the uncut Yugioh DVDs because that's the only way I can watch the Japanese version, since fansubs of Yugioh: Duel Monsters are non-existent. But now that they've cancelled their uncut Yugioh DVDs, the only way I can see uncut Yugioh is through either reading the manga or through buying illegal Hong Kong bootlegs, neither of which are sufficient enough to replace the absence of uncut Yugioh anime commerically available in the states. And if parents tried sueing 4Kids because they accidentally bought their kids an uncut DVD, they would lose because it's the parents' responsiblity to check the ratings on the back of a DVD before purchasing it, not 4Kids. The courts aren't going to let some parent sue 4Kids and win just because they failed at being a parent.
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HitokiriShadow
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 6251
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:42 pm
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Kouji wrote: | The courts aren't going to let some parent sue 4Kids and win just because they failed at being a parent. |
Oh, yes they would.
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Yashouzoid
Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 411
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:49 pm
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darkhunter wrote: | Dude, calm down. I think you're taking this way too personally. |
Don't worry, I'm not taking it personally. Just irritated by their idiocy :/
Quote: | From what I read, I didn't get the impression that they're the only company releasing anime. Also from a business stand point of view, comments like that are pretty common. |
Fine, only successful company releasing anime. Have you ever heard them in interviews? "We're the only ones who've done anime right", "localizing is key to success and all of the other companies are dumbasses", "we're interested in venturing into NEW territory by releasing uncut DVDs, but we're still going to screw you over," etc. etc.
Quote: | Like the name entitle, 4kids are for kids. Looking at their lineup, most of their show are aim towards kids. They butcher One Piece, but you already have the fansub. Let's just move on and let the kids have something they can watch. |
First, I don't want it on fansub. I don't like the fansubs. The font sucks, there's a constant use of suffixes and random Japanese terms, cussing emphasized a little too much occasionally, etc. All of this works to pollute my enjoyment of it. Of course, it's far more reliable than the 4Kids version, but that's pathetic.
I want it on DVD. You know, professional, legal, language-I-understand DVD.
Second, kids don't watch One Piece. Or at least make up the majority of its audience. The core fan base has always been found in older demographics - be it the Shonen Jump subscribers (of which there are 200,000), or the carry-over viewers from Naruto. I can't buy the "Let the kids enjoy it and watch your fansubs" argument because it's totally misinformed, or just ignorant to the truth.
Food for thought: the uncut DVDs for Yugioh, a widely recognized KIDS' property, costed more and had less episodes than their edited counterparts. They outsold said edited counterparts, and were eventually pulled because 4Kids saw the potential and got greedy with the profit share. This getting through to you any?
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LydiaDianne
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 5633
Location: Southern California
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:17 pm
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Sorry, I couldn't get into One Piece when it started on Cartoon Network. But let me see if I'm understanding something correctly:
1) 4kids only releases the cut/edited English version of One Piece.
2) They do not release an uncut Japanese subtitled version of One Piece.
If #2 is correct, that seems stupid to me. There is the fan base out there who would buy it and MAKE THEM MORE MONEY! Which would make the CEOs and the shareholders happy. Why cut the money making throat?
(whoops, HitokiriShadow posted the answer while I was writing this, Thanks)
Last edited by LydiaDianne on Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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darkhunter
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2992
Location: Los Angelas
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:19 pm
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You definitely need to provide some sources to backup those numbers. Oh yeah, nice way to overexaggerate everyting, it just makes the whiny seem more obvious. 4kids are aim at kids, they could give a shit what anime fan think, as long as their company is bringing in revenue every year. We don't live in Japan, so we have to compromise and rationalize with what is bring brought over.
I love One Piece too, but I doubt I was ever interested in collecting all 100+ DVD of One Piece, especially when the original manga is cheaper and cover more ground. Heck, Fighting spirit is only 15 DVD, a better show than One Piece, has a huge fansub following when it airing in Japan and people were saying they definitely buy the series but it isn't doing so hot in the R1 department right now.
But if anybody need their One Piece fix, the original manga is probably the best and cheapest way to go. Eh why did I bother even mentioning the manga since it seem like most anime fan and have a hard time reading comic.
Last edited by darkhunter on Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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deathbringer
Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 276
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:31 pm
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Yashouzoid wrote: |
Quote: | As you know, many references do remain. |
Many references? Say wha? Maybe he meant "do get cut", because that's the only way the statement would be true. |
Well, there is at least one hot springs episode in Pokemon. The difference between 4Kids and other companies is that 4Kids thinks they're being good by leaving in things that other companies had never even thought of cutting.
darkhunter wrote: | the original manga is cheaper and cover more ground. |
Duh. That's the way manga always is. But some of us like to enjoy both.
darkhunter wrote: | Eh why did I bother even mentioning the manga since it seem like most anime fan here have a hard time reading comic. |
Yeah that's right, the whole "manga" section of the forums doesn't exist.
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darkhunter
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2992
Location: Los Angelas
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:35 pm
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deathbringer wrote: |
darkhunter wrote: | Eh why did I bother even mentioning the manga since it seem like most anime fan here have a hard time reading comic. |
Yeah that's right, the whole "manga" section of the forums doesn't exist. |
There is a different between "most" and "all" anime fan. Most of the anime fan I see here (like Yakazoid and stevethemooch) rarely post in the manga forum. Most of the people in the manga section are regular manga readers and there isn't much of us.
deathbringer wrote: |
darkhunter wrote: | the original manga is cheaper and cover more ground. |
Duh. That's the way manga always is. But some of us like to enjoy both.
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I'm letting people know that there is an alternative. A better one at that. People can whine and moan all they want, they're still not going to get uncut dvd- it seem like 4kids already made up their mind.
Last edited by darkhunter on Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:49 pm; edited 8 times in total
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LydiaDianne
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 5633
Location: Southern California
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:37 pm
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HitokiriShadow wrote: |
Kouji wrote: | The courts aren't going to let some parent sue 4Kids and win just because they failed at being a parent. |
Oh, yes they would. |
People have sued over dumber things and have won too.
Back to the topic: I guess what is so distressing, for me at least, is the arrogance of the interviewee. That other opinions do not matter.
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camelot187757
Joined: 11 Dec 2005
Posts: 426
Location: The Nacirema Dream (17 and counting Asuka)
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:41 pm
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Kouji wrote: | The courts aren't going to let some parent sue 4Kids and win just because they failed at being a parent. |
Forgive me for being slightly off-topic but if the courts would allow people to sue McDonalds for them being fat (as if it happened overnight...) then the courts (speaking for the American courts of course) would happily enjoy letting someone sue a company because they sucked some serious male genetalia at being a parent.
(to bring the train back around...)
The absolute arrogance (remind you of anyone...) that this man carried in the interview was revolting but we do have to remind him that it is his job and if he indeed felt the same way that we as anime fans felt about their edits, he still would not have been at liberty to express his true feelings. We have to remember that the man works for 4kids and to literally rebuke his own job would have resulted in him being at the unemployment office in the next two weeks. If any of us had the oppurtunity to work with anime (disregarding what we or anyone else actually did with the acquired titles) we certaintly wouldn't jeopardize such a career because I didn't agree with the standards.
We are all talking here [this includes me read my first post] as if we expected the article to go
What we wish the article wrote: | "Oh yes I totally agree; the way we do things is completely showing of both American and commercial ignorance. We really go too far with our edits and to tell the truth alot of times we actually have bets to see who can make up the most nonsensical edits. Yup yup, you're absolutely right we do unecessarily remove crucial social and cultural references and waste budget money by going out of way to hire untalented Yoko Hell-no's to re-score entire seires with what we believe to be more Americanized soundtracks. What, what was that? Oh you are quite right, I am indeed a dick and our entire staff should rot in hell." |
However, whether he is/was under the radar or not that still can't really excuse his tone (and his bleeding egotism) regarding his comments on his company's actions.
Quote: | As you know, many references do remain. Some, however, are quite obscure (in my judgment) and the shows don't particularly allow for explanation of many of these references. It doesn't seem to be the case that the creators of most of the anime series we air are intentionally trying to make "Japanese" series. |
Yes, yes they are indeed making Japanese series and are not making this with the ideas of "dude we gotta name the the guy John or else the 'murricans are going to kill us". Port, dubb, and edit are you're jobs and yet you can't even do those simple things right. Not only that, but the fact that you point blank bashed the Japanese and the Japanese animators by referring to their obvious cultural influences as "obscure" and a necessary change (that sh*t is damm near communism) as a man with obvious weight in anime is just...dirty.
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Yashouzoid
Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 411
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:10 pm
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darkhunter wrote: | You definitely need to provide some sources to backup those numbers. Oh yeah, nice way to overexaggerate everyting, it just makes the whiny seem more obvious. 4kids are aim at kids, they could give a shit what anime fan think, as long as their company is bringing in revenue every year. We don't live in Japan, so we have to compromise and rationalize with what is bring brought over. |
Amazon.com sales (DVD sales), and ratings reports (teens > kids), and official statements by Viz (SJ subscribers), all seem pretty reliable to me.
4Kids is declining. Slowly, but surely. They've lost their biggest property and the other one is close to ending, but it won't matter, it's hit rock bottom at this point (the edited release was just canceled if that says anything). They really don't have anything else backing them up.
The treatment of One Piece is totally irrational. It just is. It was edited and polarized for an audience that really wasn't going to provide the deepest pockets, or chances are even like it, for one. Uncuts have proven to outsell edits, for another (Christ man, even Hello Kitty is getting a bi-lingual release). The show has been taken off of its home block, and on the other it's relied heavily on spill-over ratings from Naruto. I don't see why I should rationalize with something that sucks for everyone, because so far, no one has gained anything from the domestic One Piece release.
Quote: | I love One Piece too, but I doubt I was ever interested in collecting all 100+ DVD of One Piece, especially when the original manga is cheaper and cover more ground. Heck, Fighting spirit is only 15 DVD, a better show than One Piece, has a huge fansub following when it airing in Japan and people were saying they definitely buy the series but it isn't doing so hot in the R1 department right now. |
One Piece = number one show in Japan.
Fighting Spirit = haven't even heard of it.
By saying that it's a better show, by the way, you've pretty much discredited yourself in my eyes by presenting your personal opinion as solid argument.
Quote: | But if anybody need their One Piece fix, the original manga is probably the best and cheapest way to go. Eh why did I bother even mentioning the manga since it seem like most anime fan and have a hard time reading comic. |
I prefer the anime to the manga because I like it animated, though I do buy the manga.
There's something about the voices that brings the characters more to life. I really love Luffy's Japanese voice and I can't imagine him being voiced by anyone else. The same applies to Chopper, for that matter, and Ussop.
Plus, the manga is being released slowly and painfully
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LydiaDianne
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 5633
Location: Southern California
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:15 pm
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Really quick question:
Does anyone know how long an anime is licensed for? Because if it isn't for very long, perhaps someone else will pick up One Piece and release it uncut, subtitled.
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deathbringer
Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 276
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:28 pm
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Yashouzoid wrote: |
One Piece = number one show in Japan.
Fighting Spirit = haven't even heard of it.
By saying that it's a better show, by the way, you've pretty much discredited yourself in my eyes by presenting your personal opinion as solid argument. |
That doesn't really mean anything. Compare the popularity of Haibane Renmei VS Inu Yasha in the US. Inu Yasha is far more popular, but I alway thought that Haibane Renmei is alot better then Inu Yasha. Just because something is more popular doesn't make it better.
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Yashouzoid
Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 411
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:42 pm
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deathbringer wrote: | That doesn't really mean anything. Compare the popularity of Haibane Renmei VS Inu Yasha in the US. Inu Yasha is far more popular, but I alway thought that Haibane Renmei is alot better then Inu Yasha. Just because something is more popular doesn't make it better. |
I'm trying to find a point here. Really, I'm trying.
I like to ignore popularity when judging anime, and still, One Piece is my favorite anime. Period.
LydiaDyanne wrote: | Does anyone know how long an anime is licensed for? Because if it isn't for very long, perhaps someone else will pick up One Piece and release it uncut, subtitled. |
The rights for OP expire 2009.
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deathbringer
Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 276
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:05 pm
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Yashouzoid wrote: |
deathbringer wrote: | That doesn't really mean anything. Compare the popularity of Haibane Renmei VS Inu Yasha in the US. Inu Yasha is far more popular, but I alway thought that Haibane Renmei is alot better then Inu Yasha. Just because something is more popular doesn't make it better. |
I'm trying to find a point here. Really, I'm trying. |
The point is, you basically said that his opinion is not valid because he likes a show that you've never seen better then One Piece. You basically say that One Piece must be the better show because it's got more viewers. That's not the case. In my opinon, I've always thought One Piece was a terrible show. The story was not that good, and the character designs were just atrocious.
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