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http://www.animeboredom.co.uk/anime-articles/80/

Hey just read it, a very interesting read.

script writer- "I know some hardcore anime fans hate the fact that 4Kids doesn't simply air the original Japanese series with "literal" subtitles. I understand their feelings. I'd just ask them to remember that 4Kids has probably brought more anime to more viewers than any company in the world. It may not always be in the way some fans would like, but I think 4Kids has contributed greatly to the interest and availability of anime worldwide. Maybe that counts for something in their eyes."

Quote:

Rasmussen(the guy interviewing -Cam) : Ok, the Japanese cultural references. Why remove it? Should not some remain? Wouldn't it be more culturally acceptable to keep some (with the easiest explanations) and explain the cultural significance of these things? Why does 4Kids think that children are not capable of grasping at least some of the simple cultural nuances of Japan? (At least stop calling riceballs "doughnuts", a throwback from the early days of the Pokemon series.)

Mr. Haigney(the interviewee -Cam) : As you know, many references do remain. Some, however, are quite obscure (in my judgment) and the shows don't particularly allow for explanation of many of these references. It doesn't seem to be the case that the creators of most of the anime series we air are intentionally trying to make "Japanese" series. Just the opposite. But certain references and behaviors that are strange to U.S. viewers are in these series simply because they are part of the collective experience of the Japanese creators who, most times, intend to create "universal" characters and situations, albeit for, primarily, Japanese viewers. I have nothing against this, but my job is to remake these series for a mass U.S. audience.

At least he didn't BS around the question. We finally have some kind of evidence for the butchering of some series but I still feel that they could lighten up with the slapstick if not the viloence. However I hate the last statement where he arrogantly claims that he is bluntly americanizing the anime that is shown which is a detriment to the whole cultural background of anime in general IMO. However I still feel that 4kids does indeed take thier editing too far with or without the interview explaining why. A nice insight into the workings of those damm-ed 4kids in any case.

What bothered me was the reason he gave for replacing the Back Ground Music (BGM). That they replace it for artisic and commercial reasons??? I so do not understand that. I can understand replacing Japanese cultural references but BGM? He doesn't really seem to answer the question.

Maybe I'm missing something.

He's also interested in manga as a concept? How can he edit or whatever he does if he doesn't have an understanding of the original format. I can accept the standards and practices of "children's" televison, but he doesn't seem interested in the original format whatsoever.

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About midweek, we’d review the music our very talented music editors cut for each show, and give notes.

The same music editors who constantly rip music from other 4Kids productions and have an apparent obsession with playing three tracks at the same time? Um, what?

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When we re-score a series, we usually have one or more composers take a shot at creating major themes.

But that results in horribly inconsistent soundtrack quality, which guess what, sucks.

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We replace it for both artistic and commercial reasons. I don't think it's any more or less insensitive than dubbing.

I don't see the logic behind this. Dubbing is done because Japanese dialogue, to most American viewers, is incomprehensible. Instrumental music is universal and can be understood by everybody. As far as "commercial reasons" go, 4Kids already owns the Japanese soundtracks for at least all of the Shonen Jump properties they licensed, so it's really a moot point.

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As you know, many references do remain.

Many references? Say wha? Maybe he meant "do get cut", because that's the only way the statement would be true.

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I know that many fans of the Japanese series vilify 4Kids for changing the content of the original shows. What they may not realize is that Fox Broadcast Standards and Practices forbids things like smoking, firing realistic weapons and, generally, any kind of violence that would be easy for kids to imitate.

No, we villify 4Kids not because they make the required edits, but because they go beyond that. They change the music and do a bad job at it. They "punch up" the dialogue and it ends up being awkwardly written with terrifying puns. They almost purposely miscast the voices and are unfit for voice direction period, as shown by the various performances. They censor completely nonsensical things. They refuse to release unedited versions on DVD, even though they've proven to outsell their edited counterparts.

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I’ve never played the game, seen the series or read the comics.

Well aren't you employee of the month? Certainly it doesn't take that much effort to pick up a GameCube controller for an hour?

Quote:

I know some hardcore anime fans hate the fact that 4Kids doesn't simply air the original Japanese series with "literal" subtitles. I understand their feelings. I'd just ask them to remember that 4Kids has probably brought more anime to more viewers than any company in the world. It may not always be in the way some fans would like, but I think 4Kids has contributed greatly to the interest and availability of anime worldwide. Maybe that counts for something in their eyes.

Not only does he seem to perceive the fans of the originals as incompetent morons, but he's also riding on the "Well 4Kids made anime popular" argument. Sure, Pokemon and Yugioh, but both of those heavily relied on game companies' support (Nintendo and Konami respectively) and their broadcasters. One Piece is the closest thing they've ever done ON THEIR OWN, with no pre-existing franchise to mooch off of, and it's not doing too hot either.

Then you have companies like FUNimation and Bandai, who have launched the Dragonball series, Fullmetal Alchemist, the Gundam series, etc. etc. Or what about ShoPro with Naruto and InuYasha? 4Kids has probably gotten more anime on television than most other companies - that I'll agree with. But with the complete and utter failures that tend to follow, does it really mean anything?

Well, he is right, 4kids have brought anime to a wide audience, and I can appreciate that much. I think he's a little off-base on what the hardcore fans want, though...I'd like to think that the hardcore fans of a show like One Piece are at least willing to accept a reasonably faithful dub and a Naruto-like treatment with some edits / censorship for a mass audience. No one's expecting 4kids to make 8-year old kids* watch TV in Japanese with subtitles, but with some series, they crossed the line between "reasonable editing" and "butchering" a long time ago.

*True story, I was running a video room at a convention, and we were showing the first 4 episodes of AIR (fansubbed). A kid asked if I could change the audio to English, and it sort of broke my heart to explain that I couldn't do it because it hadn't been dubbed into English at all. And unlike many anime, it's hard to follow AIR, which is short on action and long on complicated dialogue.

Quote:

I know some hardcore anime fans hate the fact that 4Kids doesn't simply air the original Japanese series with "literal" subtitles. I understand their feelings. I'd just ask them to remember that 4Kids has probably brought more anime to more viewers than any company in the world. It may not always be in the way some fans would like, but I think 4Kids has contributed greatly to the interest and availability of anime worldwide. Maybe that counts for something in their eyes.

Not only does he seem to perceive the fans of the originals as incompetent morons, but he's also riding on the "Well 4Kids made anime popular" argument. Sure, Pokemon and Yugioh, but both of those heavily relied on game companies' support (Nintendo and Konami respectively) and their broadcasters. One Piece is the closest thing they've ever done ON THEIR OWN, with no pre-existing franchise to mooch off of, and it's not doing too hot either.

Then you have companies like FUNimation and Bandai, who have launched the Dragonball series, Fullmetal Alchemist, the Gundam series, etc. etc. Or what about ShoPro with Naruto and InuYasha? 4Kids has probably gotten more anime on television than most other companies - that I'll agree with. But with the complete and utter failures that tend to follow, does it really mean anything?[/quote]

ABOVE PORTION IS FROM YASHOUZOID (sorry, I messed up on the quotes)

Missed that part. How is 4kids the only one responible for making anime popular. I started watching anime about 6 years ago, watching Sailor Moon which was a DIC property at the time. And I remember watching other DIC properties back in the '80s. That takes some ego to claim that THEY made anime popular. I've only heard of 4kids within the past couple of years.

Since the interview deals a lot about Sonic X, allow me to express my dissapointment about what 4kids did to it.

I've been a big fan of Sonic the Hedgehog since I was 5. I bought the first Sonic the Hedgehog video game when it came out on the Genesis. I loved Sonic and have bought every video game that they have come out with about him. The American Sonic the Hedgehog cartoon was good (the one with Sally, not the comedic one with Scratch and Grounder), but it didn't really have that much to do with the video game unfortunetly.

I absolutely loved Sonic Adventure when it came out for Dreamcast and I loved the voice they choice for Sonic and the others in it. It fit them perfectly, personally, I think one of the best dub casts for a video game. Then Sonic Adventure 2... I think any Sonic fan would agree with me that Shadow's voice is absolutely awesome. He has one of the most memorable voices I've ever heard.

Then I heard about them making a Sonic the Hedgehog anime based on the video games. I was very excited about it. Then I heard 4kids licensed it. At first I was pretty dissapointed, but I thought about it. After seeing fansubs of it, I noticed that there wasn't really that much to edit in it, I didn't think think they could ruin it. 4kids proved me wrong. Not only did they get rid of the awesome dub cast of the video games, they replaced them with their absolutely horrible cast of cheap, inexperienced voice actors. The show... ruined.

"Well, at least I still have the video games" I thought to myself... WRONG. The very next video game released, Shadow the Hedgehog, had 4kids name right in the credits and of course their voice actors were in it too. "Well, at least Sega always includes the option of listening to the Sonic games in Japanese with English subtitles" I thought to myself... WRONG AGAIN. They got rid of the option in Shadow the Hedgehog, most likely just to absolutely piss off all Sonic fans like myself. Needless to say, I returned the game and bought the import.

Thank you 4kids, for ruining what I was hoping to be a very enjoyable anime and for even spreading your suckiness to the video games from which they came. Sonic will never be the same to me and you just caused a hardcore Sonic fan who has been one since he was 5 to not buy any more of the English releases of the games (most likely you would have been able to make a few hundred off of me since I usually buy EVERY Sonic game that comes out). I guarentee I'm not the only one either, since I know thousands of fans are just as pissed off as me by this.

Hm...I don't have much first hand experience with 4kids material. The last anime I watched on tv was a few shows on adult swim like..2 summers ago. Some toonami and a few anime before that even, but that's all. Everything else I've watched has not come from cable or satellite.

I do know enough of their practices though, reading about their edit lists etc. I've watched Card Captor Sakura, and this came after I read about the cardcaptors dub(i.e., hack n slash dub). That's a different company I believe, but same approach to anime.

Anyway, it's so hard to read this article. Does he really believe in the company? I can't bear to read his answers. Americanization...well, taken to a bare minimum, but especially for a children's daytime show, is more than tolerable. No one is going to get that funny play on words when So-and-So ended his word with "-bu" rather than "-pu" in America. But changing the music, story, characters, animation and flavor of it....ugh.

You know, you'd think it would be cheaper and easier if they just left most of that stuff in. I wonder why they can't.

GreatSaiyaman777 wrote:

http://www.animeboredom.co.uk/anime-articles/80/

Hey just read it, a very interesting read.

script writer- "I know some hardcore anime fans hate the fact that 4Kids doesn't simply air the original Japanese series with "literal" subtitles. I understand their feelings. I'd just ask them to remember that 4Kids has probably brought more anime to more viewers than any company in the world. It may not always be in the way some fans would like, but I think 4Kids has contributed greatly to the interest and availability of anime worldwide. Maybe that counts for something in their eyes."

Hmmmm, time to update Wikipedia entry for 4kids.

GreatSaiyaman777 wrote:

http://www.animeboredom.co.uk/anime-articles/80/

Hey just read it, a very interesting read.

script writer- "I know some hardcore anime fans hate the fact that 4Kids doesn't simply air the original Japanese series with "literal" subtitles. I understand their feelings. I'd just ask them to remember that 4Kids has probably brought more anime to more viewers than any company in the world. It may not always be in the way some fans would like, but I think 4Kids has contributed greatly to the interest and availability of anime worldwide. Maybe that counts for something in their eyes."

What a little world they live in. Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh are their only success, but 2 titles out of the hundreds available isn't exactly "more anime". The only thing it counts is what they have taught the other anime licensee's of what not to do to their titles, in my eyes. One Piece is a very good example of how not to make a 12+ rated production into 3+ for American audiences. Hopefully they will have learned their lessons well.

Ok, if that article wasn't full of egotism, I don't know what egotism is.

"I’m Michael Haigney and I write and produce the English-language versions of foreign animated series for 4Kids."

First of all, call it DUBBING and ANIME. Contrary to 4Kids' belief that Americans are ignorant of all things Japanese culture, we do know what dubbing and anime are.

"We replace it for both artistic and commercial reasons. I don't think it's any more or less insensitive than dubbing."

How is replacing the music for both artistic and commericial reasons? If 4Kids actually released soundtracks for their dubs, I might understand this, but so far the only anime they've released a soundtrack for has been Pokemon and Yugioh, so how can they say it's for artistic and commercial reasons?

"As you know, many references do remain. Some, however, are quite obscure (in my judgment) and the shows don't particularly allow for explanation of many of these references. It doesn't seem to be the case that the creators of most of the anime series we air are intentionally trying to make "Japanese" series. Just the opposite. But certain references and behaviors that are strange to U.S. viewers are in these series simply because they are part of the collective experience of the Japanese creators who, most times, intend to create "universal" characters and situations, albeit for, primarily, Japanese viewers. I have nothing against this, but my job is to remake these series for a mass U.S. audience."

What references? Other than a few Japanese names being left in their Yugioh dub, I haven't seen any such references remain. To my knowledge, 4Kids has never left in a single Japanese culture reference in their dubs at all. And what makes them think that anime creators are producing anime for a universal audience and that Japanese culture just coincidentally happens to be a part of their creation because they're Japanese? The Japanese are producing these shows for the Japanese and nobody else. They really don't give a damn about anyone else outside of their country. And if the Japanese were creating their anime with universal characters and situations, then why does 4Kids have to Americanize their dubs? If the Japanese were creating these characters and situations to be "universal" as they claim they do, then EVERYONE in the universe should be able to get the Japanese culture references without the need for 4Kids' editing. That's what the phrase "universal" means, 4Kids.

And I really don't think that anime creators intended anime to be produced with "universal" characters and situations when you have shows like Azumanga Daioh. And how do they know that American kids won't like Japanese culture left in their dubs? Has 4Kids ever actually TRIED to leave it in? No! So, until they do try and leave in Japanese culture in their shows and then the shows they license are a failure because they were left in, they have no proof that Americanization is neccessary. In fact, one of the shows they Americanized to death for the sake of the poor, ignorant children of America, One Piece, was a complete and utter failure BECAUSE THEY AMERICANIZED IT. Meanwhile, other anime series who's dubs do leave in Japanese culture like Rurouni Kenshin and Naruto are exteremly popular among American kids, so that just proves that you don't have to edit out Japanese culture in dubs just so your dub can sell in the U.S.

"I know that many fans of the Japanese series vilify 4Kids for changing the content of the original shows. What they may not realize is that Fox Broadcast Standards and Practices forbids things like smoking, firing realistic weapons and, generally, any kind of violence that would be easy for kids to imitate. That’s because the FCC has rules and regulations governing broadcast. I happen to dislike realistic violence in the context of kids’ cartoons, but the changes we make in the original shows have nothing to do with a capricious desire to “ruin” or “destroy” them, as some “purists” seem to feel."

No, we don't hate you for censoring the anime you license. That's something we can agree upon because as much as I hate censorship, it's a neccessary evil in this day and age to get anime aired on Saturday mornings. I don't hate you 4Kids for censoring your dubs. What I hate is how you make seemingly pointless cuts that don't make any sense to cut. Like changing a line that was neither offensive or that had Japanese culture in it for the sake of "Americanization" or reversing the order of the scenes in your dub of Tokyo Mew Mew for no reason at all, or even go so far as to edit the color of Ryo's clothes in one episode. It's these stupid and pointless cuts that you have abosuletly no reason for and your refusal to release uncut versions on DVD that I hate about you.

"It would be best to contact Fox on this one."

Ok, so 4Kids claims that the reasons why they make the cuts they do is to comply with the content that's acceptable on Fox but they don't even know what the content that's acceptable is? Great job at being professional here, 4Kids.

"The Standards & Practices woman at Fox felt that the whole show dental care in a terrible light and that airing it might discourage children from going to the dentist. Actually, Escargoon had to go to the dentist because he had taken terrible care of his teeth, so there was a positive message in the show, but in a kind of negative way. (The Japanese have a very different sensibility in some things.) I saw the woman’s point, though the show was obviously (I hope) a comedy. After some back and forth, we decided to release the unaired show as a bonus on one of the Kirby DVDs."

Why did 4Kids need to change that? An episode just like that one with the scary dentists was presented in an episode of Sailor Moon and it was completely left in-tact in the dub and you don't see lots of parents sueing Cloverway for traumatizing children, do you?

"I know some hardcore anime fans hate the fact that 4Kids doesn't simply air the original Japanese series with "literal" subtitles. I understand their feelings. I'd just ask them to remember that 4Kids has probably brought more anime to more viewers than any company in the world. It may not always be in the way some fans would like, but I think 4Kids has contributed greatly to the interest and availability of anime worldwide. Maybe that counts for something in their eyes."

Um, no. I don't want or expect you to air uncut anime with subtitles on children's TV, 4Kids. I know that it's a highly unreasonable and unrealsitic daydream, but that's not what I hate about you. I don't hate you for censoring your dubs, either. What I hate about you is your constant need to make pointless alterations to your dubs, your refusal to hire actually GOOD voice actors for your dubs, and your refusal to release uncut subtitled anime ON DVD. I don't care about you airing subtitled anime on DVD. I don't even really care about what you do to your dubs, but for god's sake, at least release uncut subtitled versions of the anime you license ON DVD. Now is that too much to ask for? And I'm sorry 4Kids, but just because you may have released the largest number of anime shows on American television than any other dubbing company doesn't make you something in my eye. Quantity does not equal quality and it means abosuletly nothing that you air so much anime on TV if that anime has been butchered to death so much to the point that you can barely tell it's the same show anymore and if you refuse to release uncut subtitled versions ON DVD.

Zalis116 wrote:

Well, he is right, 4kids have brought anime to a wide audience, and I can appreciate that much. I think he's a little off-base on what the hardcore fans want, though...I'd like to think that the hardcore fans of a show like One Piece are at least willing to accept a reasonably faithful dub and a Naruto-like treatment with some edits / censorship for a mass audience. No one's expecting 4kids to make 8-year old kids* watch TV in Japanese with subtitles, but with some series, they crossed the line between "reasonable editing" and "butchering" a long time ago.

Well I wasn't denying that they've brought anime to a wide audience. However, he said more than any other company, which is false. Look at the examples I gave. FUNi with DBZ and FMA; Bandai and Saban with Digimon, or just Bandai with Gundam; ShoPro with Naruto, Zatch Bell, Hamtaro, and InuYasha; Nelvana with Beyblade and DiC with Sailor Moon... etc. etc.

4Kids brought Pokemon and Yugioh, I'll give them that much, but God, they act like they're the only anime company on the planet.

[quote="Kouji"]Why did 4Kids need to change that? An episode just like that one with the scary dentists was presented in an episode of Sailor Moon and it was completely left in-tact in the dub and you don't see lots of parents sueing Cloverway for traumatizing children, do you?[/url] Heh heh, this discussion did remind me of that episode of Sailor Moon...this is a contrast to American shows, which would show some character who always brushes their teeth and has perfect hygiene to demonstrate the same lesson. Anime, on the other hand, has a tendency of showing what you should NOT be like instead of what you should be like.

It's too bad the folks from 4kids won't get around to reading the replies on here, but sadly enough, I think they have reason enough not to release uncut DVDs. If we examine the options in the case of One Piece:

Japanese audio-only DVDs, Edited English dub DVDs: This guy knows that hardcore fans hate his company, and I'm sure he knows that the purist fans of One Piece already have gigs and gigs of fansubs on hand, so selling sub-only DVDs to a fanbase that is loathe to give money to 4kids probably wouldn't be profitable.

Dual-audio uncut DVDs --due to all the TV edits, they'd have to do a new dub (which costs money) and include skipped episodes in order to make the video footage line up with the Japanese audio and subject matter. However, this would enrage parents buying DVDs for their kids, who expected something like the TV version, but then suddenly got all the violence/other objectionable material that had originally been edited out. Since this is the core audience, sales would suffer.

That's just my take on it, anyway.

Yashouzoid wrote:

Zalis116 wrote:

Well, he is right, 4kids have brought anime to a wide audience, and I can appreciate that much. I think he's a little off-base on what the hardcore fans want, though...I'd like to think that the hardcore fans of a show like One Piece are at least willing to accept a reasonably faithful dub and a Naruto-like treatment with some edits / censorship for a mass audience. No one's expecting 4kids to make 8-year old kids* watch TV in Japanese with subtitles, but with some series, they crossed the line between "reasonable editing" and "butchering" a long time ago.

Well I wasn't denying that they've brought anime to a wide audience. However, he said more than any other company, which is false. Look at the examples I gave. FUNi with DBZ and FMA; Bandai and Saban with Digimon, or just Bandai with Gundam; ShoPro with Naruto, Zatch Bell, Hamtaro, and InuYasha; Nelvana with Beyblade and DiC with Sailor Moon... etc. etc.

4Kids brought Pokemon and Yugioh, I'll give them that much, but God, they act like they're the only anime company on the planet.

Dude, calm down. I think you're taking this way too personally.
From what I read, I didn't get the impression that they're the only company releasing anime. Also from a business stand point of view, comments like that are pretty common.

Like the name entitle, 4kids are for kids. Looking at their lineup, most of their show are aim towards kids. They butcher One Piece, but you already have the fansub. Let's just move on and let the kids have something they can watch.

darkhunter wrote:

They butcher One Piece, but you already have the fansub. Let's just move on and let the kids have something they can watch.

But I want it on DVD. I don't like the fansubs.

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Interview with a 4Kids script writer