Forum - View topicDubs or Subtitles?
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Kelly
Posts: 868 Location: New York City |
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With the anime I watch on tv, it's dubbed 99.9% of the time. But when I rent or buy I still usually watch the dub first, simply because I don't want to miss any visual details the first time around that I might miss while scanning the subtitles. I then watch sub the second time around (if I liked the anime enough to watch more than once) and thereafter stick with whichever I liked best.
So far, my preference is just about 50/50 after I've explored both options. |
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6883 Location: Kazune City |
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 And yes, as Key says, professional DVD subtitle scripts do re-write and adapt dialogue in subtitle and dub scripts into more natural/flowing English. And, speaking as a fansubber, whenever I write scripts, I always favor natural/interesting/enjoyable English over strict adherence to the literal meaning. Of course, the pros and the fansubbers have different aproaches to their adaptation--the pros aim for a more general audience, and the fansubbers aim for the more hardcore fans, but I'm not going to argue about which one is better either.
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Azathrael
 Posts: 745 |
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That would've been a very good argument to what I said on page 2. The difference of intentions in making subtitles between professional subs and fansubs would surely make quality subjective, which I tried to present in an objective view. Well, doesn't do much for me to correct my own argument since I was partial to one side to begin with. But then the problem with making subtitles as "natural English" as possible is that translating becomes subjective, which can result in a loss or even a change of meaning of words and/or phrases no matter how fluent the translator is. Even more of a problem is that a person who doesn't know Japanese will never know if there was a mistake in the translation. And I can go on and on about how literal translations are also not perfect and everything else but in the end there's no black and white and I'd be rambling on by myself. -_-; |
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lachesis
Posts: 25 |
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I wasn't attacking anyone at all, just making an observation which was wrong in this case.
I still watch Trigun in the dubs, because they're available i.e. if dubs are available I'll always prefer them over the subs, however bad. My point is that being fairly new, I'm still quite in the 'objective' frame of mind regarding certain things. For instance, I remember simple titles like SuperTed, Dungeons & Dragons, Alvin and the Chipmunks, Spiderman and to a lesser extent the new darker Batman series all having more 'convincing' voice overs. You can see I believe the talent IS there to be used, but it appears to be passed by. I did write Alucard was OK, but then I also wrote that the voice was in comparison to a 'gem in a sea of mediocrity', meaning that for me Alucard and Chrno were excellent voice overs, but the weaker ones (like Ceras Victoria) sort of spoiled the show for me 
I have had to watch some fansubs as does everyone, and it seems just the quality and expression in their voices is a higher level than what I am seeing from the selection I have. Of course this is to be expected in all honesty, I'm just a bit perturbed as to why their is such a vast gap between Western produced animations and Japanese. Is it simply some people are not cast right? I have noticed on some anime that after about 15-16 eps. then the voice actor will sometimes become better, which leads me to believe that for many voice actors, this could their first job. Does this sound reasonable? |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18265 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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The phenomenon you're referring to isn't limited to first-timers and isn't uncommon. I've seen several series where the English performances were less than impressive in the early going but improved markedly by the second or third volume as the actors settled into their roles. (Elfen Lied is one prominent recent example of this.) Concerning that, one factor that isn't accounted for enough in these discussions is that English VA work for anime is a lot harder than VA work for an original English title or original Japanese VA work. Unlike the other two cases, the VA isn't creating the performance but trying to model it around an already-established performance and animation originally keyed to a different language. Although I can't speak from personal experience, that's got to be pretty challenging work for an actor. Thus it only makes sense that it will sometimes take even a good VA a few episodes to get in synch with their role. |
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Bemman
Posts: 10 Location: Fredsburg, VA |
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Depends on the show, but I generally prefer subs if I can. The only time I like the dub more is with Cowboy Bebop. I felt the voices matched better.
Otherwise subs get my vote. |
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jaysin1701a
Posts: 2 |
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As an Anime fan with a reading disorder i some times have a hard time reading suds. Just bescoues someone dosn't like suds dosn't make them any less any anime fan. Some times when the words go by to fast i am not able to read them in time and losse trek of whats going on in the show. My anime club knows this and trys to be understanding about it. As do my friends (who like subs and dubs the same.)
So when some people say bad things about bubs and say the people are it's not 100% true to the anime and how much cheeper it would be if some anime would be reasled only subed. There would be alot of people like my self who would not be albe to enjoy anime. It's hard when the only way to get a lot of good anime is with fan subs. That i can have a hard time reading. It's nice when a well liked show or movie is picked up and someone like me can see and hear it for the fully for the first time becoues of dubs. |
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Bren
 Posts: 13 Location: The Past, The Present, The Future |
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I'll take whatever I can to just know the story. But I prefer dubs beacuase I often get paranoid and think the subtitles will only be on the screen for a second and pause it every now and then.
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RDespair
 Posts: 244 Location: California |
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It all depends on the series.
Slayers, I always watch the subs because the English VAs differ depending on which season or whether it's the TV series or an OAV, Megumi Hayashibara is awesome as Lina and finally my favorite Slayers character, Xellos, sounds wonderful in the Japanese and sounds horrendous in the English. Super Gals, I always watch it in English, because the English VA do a marvelous job and I find it much funnier in English. Excel Saga, I always watch in Japanese because the English VA for Excel is really annoying. For all I know, the Japanese VA for Excel might be really annoying as well, but Japanese isn't my native language so it doesn't bug me. Azumanga Daioh I always in English because it's got a great dub. I will occasionally watch parts in Japanese though (mostly the parts that have to deal with jokes about the English teacher's English). And so on. |
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wanirose
Posts: 128 |
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Bren wrote:
Teh, heh. I have to agree with you, I do the same thing. So I prefer dubs, because then I don't have to look down at the bottom of the screen. When I do that, I usually end up missing body language and the animation and miss some of the important parts of the movie (especially if it is a complex movie). Then I have to watch the movie a couple times before I can truely understand it. The only thing with dubs though, if they get the wrong voices for the characters, it can sometimes affect the overall opinion of the movie. I have to say, this has happened with a couple different movies for me (one of them definately being Kare Kano. The voice of Souchiro should not have been that deep. But in Howl's Moving Castle, I liked Howl's deep voice, so it all depends). |
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Mylene
 Posts: 2792 Location: Indiana |
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Wow, it's really interesting to see how much anime fandom online has changed since I my last solid venture into it. Back when I first started, Elitism was king/queen. Dubs were simply not even considered, except to be railed on. But now, wow, a lot more people than I ever would have imagined watch dubs.
Personally, I watch subs. There is no "I prefer..." about it. I simply watch my anime in subtitled format. I have not watched a dub since 1998. I have only seen 2 dubs: 1.5 seasons of Sailor Moon, and the old VHS release of Kiki's Delivery Service (did Disney redub that? I would guess not, but I don't really know.) Yes, I have a bit of a case of elitism. The dubs I watched were pretty bad (and so were the few I caught a couple of minutes of here and there, which I don't consider "watching" since I did see the whole episode/movie). But honestly, I don't look down upon those who watch dubs, and the fact that dubs exist do not bother me. As long as there is an uncut subtitled version available, I'm happy, regardless of whether or not the dub is good or bad. My initial reason for turning to subs was the bad dubbing that existed back when I got into anime. My continued viewing of subbed anime has multiple reasons behind it: 1. I prefer things in the language they were originally in. This goes for more than just anime. Watching a French movie? I want the audio to be in French. Viewing an Indian drama? I want the audio in Indian (and hopefully there will be subtitles so I'll know what's going on!) It's just the way that I am. 2. If something is in English...I tend not to pay attention. I rent an American movie, pop it in the DVD player, and the next thing I know I'm in the kitchen doing dishes and just sort of 'listening' to it. Which means I miss out on a great deal of it. But if the show is in Japanese, I tend to sit and watch, because while I speak a decent amount of Japanese (it was my minor in university), there are still things that I won't understand right off the bat, so I need to be able to see the subtitles. Because of this added attention to show, I often find myself able to search for deeper meanings behind shows, and can turn watching anime into an intellectual pursuit--both for keeping in touch with the Japanese I have learned, as well as applying social theory and general philosophical concepts to what I'm seeing. 3. I am used to the seiyuu. I will be watching a show, and suddenly exclaim to my husband, "Hey! That's Hisakawa Aya, isn't it?" or "That character sounds so much like Vash...I wonder..." and then I'll promptly pause the DVD, pull up ANN, and see how well I did on picking out the seiyuu. It's fun, and it's informative. Sure, I could technically do the same thing with dubs if I started watching them, but I really do enjoy the Japanese voices. 4. Finally, I think I'm rather afraid of dubs in general. It's not really a fear, per se, but it's a distinct discomfort with them in general. Unless I haven't seen the original version yet, I'm always going to be making comparisons in my mind. If it's not Mitsuishi Kotono voicing Excel, or Shinohara Emi voicing Presea, it's simply not going to sound right to me. And actually seeing the dub first simply isn't going to happen, not when I have the ability to watch the sub on the same DVD. I have tried to make myself watch some dubs on television (both of stuff I have and have not seen in Japanese). But usually that lasts less than 3 minutes before I find myself cringing from what I felt was bad or stilted voice acting (examples: Pokemon, Zatch Bell, Fushigi Yuugi OVA, Utena Movie). I did get 10 minutes into Totoro the other day, but that had a lot more to do with the lack of dialogue in the scene I saw than enjoying the dubbing. Due to the necessity to match up with the lips, dubs often sound stilted to me. The voices themselves might sound find, the emotion is at least okay, but needing to speed up or slowdown what is being said to match the lips just doesn't sound right. Even in dubs that I have been told were "great" or "better than the Japanese" I've had this problem, and have only been able to watch for about 2 to 3 minutes before getting annoyed and changing the channel. This might just be me trying to find additional faults in dubbing. I accept this might be the case, but I'm also very picky with voice acting in cartoons, the voice acting in anime when it's in Japanese (I can think of some good examples of what I felt was bad voice acting), and I'm extremely picky about actual acting in live action movies. So I think it's less of a case of trying to find fault with dubs (as an outsider might presume), as much as it is that I have certain tastes. I'm critical about all forms of acting in all the various mediums. Sure, I'm a bit harsher on dubbed anime and American teen dramas than I am on Japanese-language anime and certain movies, but even so, I wouldn't make the blanket statement that all anime and teen dramas are bad, and all seiyuu are the best in the world. Heck, there are even one or two dub voices I like, and a couple of Japanese voices I hate. (I'm still rather fond of Susan Roman as Lita/Sailor Jupiter...although that might just be nostalgia.) So, um, summing it all up (and ending my ramblings), I simply choose to watch subtitles. Everyone has their preferences, after all. And if we can all get along even with these diverse preferences, then so much the better. |
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Assassin_
Posts: 154 Location: Manchester, England |
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Personally, I prefer subs, cos sometimes I dont quite catch what the caras are saying - although I can literally hear a pin drop, a lot of the time I cant hear the "detail" in a sound, only that the sound is there, does anyone know what I mean?
In fact, I even put subtitles on english-spoken stuff when I can, so long as its not horribly out of sync with the spoken script. |
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YoMaNaTiOn
 Posts: 63 |
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I prefer subs with the original japanese voice-over. It's just the natural way of watching it
Only for Berserk eng dub has worked for me. I thought the medieval background deserved English. |
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Bren
Posts: 13 Location: The Past, The Present, The Future |
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Fenrir
 Posts: 369 |
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I'm definetly all about subs. In fact I don't even know that I'm reading the subs anymore I just watch and read at the same time.
I started out on dubs but I started getting into fansubs and interested in Japanese since then I haven't been able to sit through a dubbed anime since without finding the voices annoying. |
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