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INTEREST: Shonen Jump+ Editors Co-Develop AI Tool For Manga Writing


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Harleyquin



Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 2866
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2023 8:49 am Reply with quote
Considering how the article emphasises the purpose of the tool in reducing the sheer tedium of editing speech and not generating something from rip-offs, it's the complete opposite from the recent AI-ban articles since Shonen Jump are positively promoting this with the obvious caveat of not cadging off something extant prior to submission.

Don't know if this will take off, but if the other publishers jump on the bandwagon it's going to save lots of time when a menial task is effectively automated by AI.
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Thatguy3331



Joined: 18 Feb 2012
Posts: 1791
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2023 12:10 pm Reply with quote
This is utterly idiotic.

What they seem to be implying is to use this stuff for editorial purposes but I doubt seriously that's going to be of any actual help and in turn, will cause more tedium than what they're trying to prevent, especially given the nuance of language. Shit is going to slip through the cracks as far as "avoiding plagiarism" is concerned and more than likely nothing worthwhile will be made from any of this, just an outright waste of time, effort and resources for a stupid ass grift people are trying to prop up as "the future".

Give me a fuckin break.
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Sakurafire_



Joined: 01 Jun 2015
Posts: 64
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2023 3:50 pm Reply with quote
AI is not art. AI generated content is not ethics, especially in creative work. I don’t know how people think this stuff is mundane, because everything matters in creative work. Hell, it’s a collaborative human experience between editors and creative staff working on these aspects. It goes without saying that when it’s automated, it becomes boring. These things are only “mundane” because people are told it is by the folks behind AI.

tl:dr Every task worth doing is worth doing the right way.
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Blanchimont



Joined: 25 Feb 2012
Posts: 3453
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2023 4:16 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
The tool can be used to help come up with titles and names, as well as shortening dialogue to make it fit speech bubbles. The latter is a particularly big deal for manga creators, as individual lines of dialogue will often take multiple rounds of editing in order to succinctly convey the desired message.

Seems like a nifty way to do some of the more tedious parts of the work.

I see a lot of promise in this technology, despite the issues. As for those moaning every aspect of it, would you have railed against the printing press back in the day?
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Sakurafire_



Joined: 01 Jun 2015
Posts: 64
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2023 4:19 pm Reply with quote
[quote="Blanchimont"]
Quote:
As for those moaning every aspect of it, would you have railed against the printing press back in the day?


Last I checked, the printing press wasn’t writing for you. Think a little harder before you attempt to move goalposts.
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nemuyoake





PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2023 4:31 pm Reply with quote
And as you use this IA, you feed it with your own original ideas regarding plots, concepts, characters etc., which will be used by others...

The tools can be useful, but it robs humans from getting better at the task itself. Time consuming task doesn't mean it isn't necessary as a part of the creator's journey. If you just want writing without putting the effort into it, it will affect your capacity of evolving as an author. IMHO.

But I'm interested. I want to know if an AI can write a hit manga. If an average writer using this tool can make a hit manga, then it will be a win for the publishers. They don't care about art or the artists (it's just an act), they just care about the money and mangakas are freelancers creating products that need to sell.
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Blanchimont



Joined: 25 Feb 2012
Posts: 3453
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2023 4:37 pm Reply with quote
Sakurafire_ wrote:
Last I checked, the printing press wasn’t writing for you. Think a little harder before you attempt to move goalposts.

Last I checked when I read the description of the tool mentioned in this article, it doesn't state that it will write the story for you, only to automate a some tedious parts of it, related to editing. And what does a printing press do?...
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AsleepBySunset



Joined: 07 Sep 2022
Posts: 209
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2023 4:46 pm Reply with quote
Blanchimont wrote:
Last I checked when I read the description of the tool mentioned in this article, it doesn't state that it will write the story for you, only to automate a some tedious parts of it, related to editing. And what does a printing press do?...


From the post above;

Quote:
The tool can be used to help come up with titles and names, as well as shortening dialogue to make it fit speech bubbles. The latter is a particularly big deal for manga creators, as individual lines of dialogue will often take multiple rounds of editing in order to succinctly convey the desired message.

those are all parts of writing. I don't want to consume a story if every dialogue line has been rinsed through an AI, if all the names and titles have been generated by an AI. I'm just so tired. Everything an AI can do, a human or, you know, a normal human-made computer program like a fantasy-name-generator can do better.
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ATastySub
Past ANN Contributor


Joined: 19 Jan 2012
Posts: 649
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2023 5:00 pm Reply with quote
AsleepBySunset wrote:
those are all parts of writing. I don't want to consume a story if every dialogue line has been rinsed through an AI, if all the names and titles have been generated by an AI. I'm just so tired. Everything an AI can do, a human or, you know, a normal human-made computer program like a fantasy-name-generator can do better.

So much this. The article literally says that it takes actual humans multiple passes to keep the meaning while fitting space requirements, and they want to use AI that can't understand meaning to do it instead. This is just a bad machine filter to avoid paying people for what would be more work for actual quality. It's a disgrace to everyone involved, the writers, artists, and the editors.
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Blanchimont



Joined: 25 Feb 2012
Posts: 3453
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2023 6:04 pm Reply with quote
ATastySub wrote:
The article literally says that it takes actual humans multiple passes to keep the meaning while fitting space requirements, and they want to use AI that can't understand meaning to do it instead.

But the author/mangaka/editor will still vet it afterwards so the end result is still as intended. Not unlike photoshop filters.
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ATastySub
Past ANN Contributor


Joined: 19 Jan 2012
Posts: 649
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2023 6:25 pm Reply with quote
All it's doing is adding extra steps that have to be dealt with, the same way poor machine translation being checked after is more work than simply hiring an effective translator, and that's with its promised use case that none of these ai startups have been able to prove they can even do. Which again, from the article, is not a surprise considering the source is a NFT company which is now also moving into this new scam market. Especially when it admits the data is already illegally scraped from other manga, and that any output it has infringes on other IP. It's rot all the way down.
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Blanchimont



Joined: 25 Feb 2012
Posts: 3453
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2023 6:54 pm Reply with quote
ATastySub wrote:
All it's doing is adding extra steps that have to be dealt with, the same way poor machine translation being checked after is more work

The author/mangaka/editor will be the judge of that. If it works for them, they'll keep using it, if not, not...

Quote:
than simply hiring an effective translator, and that's with its promised use case that none of these ai startups have been able to prove they can even do.

This tool has to do with translation what exactly?

Quote:
Which again, from the article, is not a surprise considering the source is a NFT company which is now also moving into this new scam market.

The article cites the director of that company taking a part in developing this, not that their company is in any way involved. If you believe otherwise, cite sources.
Also, this tool has to do with NFT what exactly?
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micah007



Joined: 25 Jan 2017
Posts: 205
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2023 7:15 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
The tools can be useful, but it robs humans from getting better at the task itself. Time consuming task doesn't mean it isn't necessary as a part of the creator's journey. If you just want writing without putting the effort into it, it will affect your capacity of evolving as an author. IMHO.


Work smarter not harder. "Time consuming tasks" aren't strictly necessary to improve proficiency in a skill and they certainly aren't necessary for an arbitrary "creator's journey" if they create unnecessary obstacles and constant distractions that can be mitigated by new tools. These new tools can reduce drudgery in a workload that is more likely to contribute to burn-out than improving technical skills by supporting an author as any effective tool should. In my opinion, an author's capacity to evolve will be strengthened by their willingness to experiment with new tools in order to expand their creative ability and working smarter instead of harder.
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CelestialEmpress



Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 113
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2023 9:20 pm Reply with quote
Why is this necessary? Why did they need to create an AI program to figure out how to fit the words into the bubbles? Presumably a real live human still has to babysit whatever's generated and make sure it comes out coherent, so why add an entirely superfluous AI middleman when they could just be paying that babysitter to format the text? If it spits out something that's trash do they just keep feeding it back to the program indefinitely until it finally shits out something passable, or is there a point where they just give up and have an actual person do it?

I feel like a lot of people are more concerned with the potential implications of introducing AI to the professional manga industry than the current tasks it's been created to handle. It may start with the tedious minor busywork that nobody likes doing, but how long before someone slips a chapter past the editors with an AI-generated plot? What happens when somebody decides that AI translation is good enough and starts putting all those jobs at stake? How much does AI need to be integrated into manga publishing before they can get away with reviving series whose authors have died? It won't happen any time soon, but there's a lot of harm that can be done down the line if AI is allowed to become an accepted part of the industry.
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Sakurafire_



Joined: 01 Jun 2015
Posts: 64
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2023 9:50 pm Reply with quote
CelestialEmpress wrote:
It may start with the tedious minor busywork that nobody likes doing, but how long before someone slips a chapter past the editors with an AI-generated plot? What happens when somebody decides that AI translation is good enough and starts putting all those jobs at stake? How much does AI need to be integrated into manga publishing before they can get away with reviving series whose authors have died? It won't happen any time soon, but there's a lot of harm that can be done down the line if AI is allowed to become an accepted part of the industry.


This is exactly what I was trying to get at earlier. There's a lot of AI enthusiasts out there who are generally uncreative people that want this crap to take over creative spaces. They will keep pushing the envelope until they don't have to pay real people and all we're left to consume is garbage (because let's be honest, it's all going to be middling at best). Trust me when I say there are lots and lots of sad people out there that are okay with pictures of women with horrifying hands, or mouths full of three dozen small teeth, because they're only interested in seeing breasts. Ergo, they don't care about the product and ignore the details for the sake of novelty (their lack of critical thinking skills doesn't help either).

Take a look at what Buzzfeed is doing. A few months ago they said that they would only use AI for editing purposes, and just today the CEO said that the future of AI at Buzzfeed is to write and curate articles for people, completely removing the human element, as his company "reorganizes" their staffing (re: fires all those pesky writers who keep demanding a living wage).
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